44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 13, 2023 11:00AM
Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question and comment.
The criteria for receiving medical assistance in dying in situations where the person is not at the end of life are very strict and rigorous, particularly when it comes to the subject we are considering today and in cases where mental illness is the only factor.
A person cannot automatically get medical assistance in dying just by requesting it. It is much more serious than that. Our practitioners, the medical community and those who provide medical assistance in dying take their responsibilities very seriously.
With regard to the comment made by the leader of the official opposition, I completely agree with my colleague. That shows a rather jaded attitude toward a subject that is very complex and morally difficult for many people. We therefore have to be respectful about it, even in our discussions.
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Mr. Speaker, I will have to say it: The government was not a good student. It dragged its feet for too long. It established the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying far too late.
When Bill C-7 was passed, the government committed to reviewing the act. We did more than review the act, because we looked at other facets. What the special joint committee did was review the existing act.
However, there was an unnecessary election in the meantime, and that caused delays. Our work was constantly disrupted by ultimatums from the court or by our own inability to meet the deadlines we ourselves had set. That is unfortunate.
I sincerely believe that, once the expert panel tabled its report, after doing the job properly, we needed to take the time to set up all the infrastructure necessary to get past the level of a house of horrors in terms of mental disorders and MAID.
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Mr. Speaker, all the data we have shows that people who are at the end of life have received palliative care. However, there are palliative care units that refuse to take someone into that unit because they allegedly requested medical assistance in dying. I find that unacceptable.
I feel that palliative care is a stepping stone to dying with dignity. As part of the process, someone may request medical assistance in dying. That must be respected. Not everyone can manage to endure their pain and live an existence that makes them suffer to the end.
I do not think the choice is ours; it belongs to the person. There is no reason why the government should not accept a patient's decision, their free choice. They must make an informed decision that is not subject to change, as we heard from some witnesses in committee. We were told that when some physicians had a patient before them requesting medical assistance in dying, they would force them to change their mind so that they would not ask for it and receive only palliative care.
Imagine the opposite scenario. That would make the news everywhere for months.
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Mr. Speaker, as I clearly outlined in my speech, the safeguards are very clearly laid out, not only in the Criminal Code, but also in what we believe the standards of practice should be, and that is going to apply to the medical community. That being said, the medical community has indicated it does need more time, hence the need for Bill C-39. I would just remind the hon. member that many stakeholders in the field of mental health have underlined the fact that the Liberal government needs to step up to the plate and increase the funding and the resources to appropriately address this major crisis happening from coast to coast to coast.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague from Thunder Bay—Rainy River is well aware of my great respect for him. However, in listening to his speech, I found it riddled with confusion.
I wondered whether he read the expert panel's report on mental illness as the sole underlying medical condition. I believe that our thinking may not be quite so different. I think that his practice has shown him the need to take care in adopting such an approach. However, in reading the report, he will see that there are many precautions in place and very specific guidelines.
Indeed, just because there are not very many mentally ill people experiencing tremendous suffering does not mean we must not move forward. One person experiencing unimaginable and intolerable suffering is, in my opinion, one too many.
I would like to know my colleague's thoughts on this.
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Madam Speaker, I think Canadians are on the same page as Quebeckers. I think it would be in our best interest to take all the time we need to really think through this very sensitive and delicate issue, which involves very personal and deeply held values, so that we can properly assess all the consequences.
To be honest, I am concerned that the one-year delay will not change anything, let alone address the issues that are already being raised about expanding medical assistance in dying to people living with a mental health condition. Quite frankly, I do not think we are there at all. We would be rushing things if we move forward, and that would be dangerous for our society.
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Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely right. Mental health is a very serious issue in our society. Rather than talking about medical assistance in dying for people with mental health disorders, the government should make funding available, and quickly, so that everyone in this country living with mental health challenges, whether in rural or urban areas, has access to care.
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Madam Speaker, I want to thank our hon. colleague from Cariboo—Prince George from the bottom of my heart for the work he has done in this place for people who are suffering from mental illness and who are feeling suicidal ideation, and on the need for the ability to get that 988 number. I know how heartfelt his engagement is on this.
I will also be voting to see Bill C-39 through, but I probably differ from my colleague on the question of at what point do we say there has to be, with proper protocols and rules, access for people to medical assistance in dying. Is the member open to considering at some point, if there were a medical consensus on this, that we should proceed to extend to mental health issues as well?
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Madam Speaker, I listened to three or four speeches, and members seem to be talking a lot about the idea that we need good mental health care, that we need psychologists and psychiatrists, that we need to help people before considering the option of medical assistance in dying for people with mental illness. For all that to happen, we need more money in the health care system. There was a meeting about improving health care last week, but the offer that the federal government put on the table was shameful. The leader of the official opposition said that he would honour that offer. It seems to me that everyone agrees that better mental health care is needed, but that means that the government needs to increase funding for the health care system.
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on that. I think his party should be calling for more health care funding.
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Madam Speaker, my friend, the member for Peterborough—Kawartha, was absolutely right when she said that there is no science and no evidence to support this expansion. Indeed, the overwhelming evidence at the special joint committee, of which I am a co-vice-chair, was precisely the opposite.
The hon. member for Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne asked the member about whether it is appropriate to extend the deadline to essentially get it right, but evidence before the committee from a leading psychiatrist was that the medical error rate on the question of irremediability could be anywhere from 2% to 95%. In the face of that, it would seem to me that there are no safeguards to get this right. The only thing to do to get it right would be to scrap this ill-conceived—
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Madam Speaker, in the opening part of his speech, my colleague said that he would be voting in favour of extending the deadline by another year. Is he optimistic that in that one year the government will be able to develop regulations, safeguards and guidelines to assist the medical profession in the responsible application of medical assistance in dying?
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Mr. Speaker, as the member knows, for many years, in a substantial way, we have had legislation dealing with the issue. It stems from a Supreme Court decision. The member has made reference to that. There has been a great deal of dialogue over the last half a dozen years in regard to what we are actually debating today. We have a standing committee that has been overseeing it as of late. We have some deadlines. I think the legislation allows for more discussion by having the extension.
One of the things lost in the debate is the issue of situations where, because of the supports that are there when someone is looking for medical assistance in dying, they get some sort of treatment that ultimately takes them off the thought of having medical assistance in dying.
Could my colleague provide his thoughts on the medical professionals and others who are out there who are, in fact, providing a service that has been deemed by the Supreme Court as something that is necessary? How we define that is really what we are talking about.
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Mr. Speaker, there are doctors who see their role and have a role of helping people who are suffering from terrible sickness, an irremediable medical condition, to end their life without pain, and we have voted for that and we supported that. However, I have seen no consensus from the medical community that people who are depressed should be able to have assisted dying and no medical consensus that children should be able to. That consensus does not exist.
The only place that consensus exists is in the unelected, unaccountable Senate, and I would not take its advice on anything, yet the government did. The reason we have this legislation is because a bunch of unelected, unaccountable senators, people who flipped pancakes for the Liberal Party and Conservative Party fundraisers over the years, decided that if one is depressed they should be able to die. Not on my watch. Forget it.
So, yes, we have had a lot of talk, but we have had no review that Parliament was promised. This government did not do that job. It would rather listen to the Senate than actually do the hard work of reviewing this legislation and getting down to what is happening. Is it working or is it not? Why, in God's name, are we talking about expanding it when we have not addressed what we were committed to under the previous provisions of this legislation?
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to thank my friend from Saanich—Gulf Islands regarding her relationship with Sue Rodriguez and the first battle toward medical assistance in dying that took place decades ago, which has brought us here.
The expert panel that was convened reported in the summer and outlined a number of different areas in which the systems are ready. As a government, we have heard from a number of different parties about the need for an extension. I wonder if my friend could advise what specific issue she has with the expert panel report with respect to medical assistance in dying, in respect of mental health as the sole underlying condition.
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Mr. Speaker, yes, there is an expert panel looking at the medical and mental health conditions, but I think we have skipped a step in making sure what we are doing remains constitutional.
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Madam Speaker, I would agree that it is inappropriate for a case worker from Veterans Affairs to offer a veteran access to medical assistance in dying rather than the mental health resources that they need. However, Veterans Affairs, under the current government, did exactly that. For that member to just try to say that this never happened is a complete fallacy. It did not happen just once; it happened numerous times.
It is absolutely inappropriate but, unfortunately, the government did exactly that.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague from Winnipeg just said that he would hope that we would have more resources for mental health. He is part of the government. He has a government appointment. He sits around the table.
We do not have those supports because the government has not provided them to Canadians. Honestly, he is listening, and he should think about this. This is not a talking point. His government has not got the job done, and that is why we are here. This should not be a pause. We should not be talking about this. This should not happen.
When it comes to his question about medical professionals, we have medical professionals. We have got all sorts of groups from disability experts to indigenous leaders saying there is no way this should be offered in Canada. What we should be focusing on is helping people to live with hope and dignity, something that the government has not yet done. That is why the government should not be proposing this at all. Based on science, based on morality and based on any outcome right now, we should not be offering medically assisted dying to Canadians with mental health issues.
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