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Context: House Hansard - 147 - Dec/13/22

Mr. Peter Fragiskatos (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue, Lib.)

Dec/13/22 10:02:55 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, pursuant to Standing Order 32(2), I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the 2021-22 Office of the Taxpayers' Ombudsperson's annual report, entitled “Service Matters: Numbers Speak Volumes”.

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Context: House Hansard - 147 - Dec/13/22

Mr. Peter Fragiskatos (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of National Revenue, Lib.)

Dec/13/22 6:37:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that was an interesting speech, as always, from our colleague. I would remiss if I did not begin tonight by speaking about the late Jim Carr, a colleague to all of us and a friend to many. He was someone who served with distinction provincially and federally, among so many other different pursuits, and who had a very impressive life. He was a mentor to many MPs who began with him in 2015, and words of advice given by him over the years will not be forgotten, certainly not by myself, not by anyone. I listened with interest to the hon. member, and we thank the Auditor General for her report, which was tabled last week. The government affirms her independence and integrity, which is true of the minister and true of myself. As I said, this is a very important office, and we affirm all of those important principles. In listening to my hon. colleague though, I wonder if he actually read the report or only those parts he could use to his political advantage. First of all, the report makes clear that, without the emergency programs put in place, the poverty rate in Canada would have doubled. Particularly important was the CERB, but there was also the wage subsidy. It is also true that we would have seen th massive economic contraction that was impacting the country at the outset of the pandemic simply continue. In 2020, we saw GDP contract by 17%. Again, this is all in the report. I am sure my friend has the report at hand, if he has not looked at it already, which I suspect he has not, but he can easily bring it up. The report makes clear that, by November 2021, the economy had come back to prepandemic levels. Again, that is because of the emergency programs that were put in place by the the government and supported by all parties in the House. Interesting also is what was said by the Parliamentary Budget Officer, who recently made it clear that, were it not for the programs, the results for the country would have been “catastrophic”. We would have seen mass bankruptcies, and it would have resulted in significant human costs. Again, I leave that for the consideration of the hon. member. Underpinning all of the emergency programs, of course, was the attestation-based approach put in place by the government to ensure that funds needed by Canadians, either individuals, families or businesses, were dispensed very quickly, and I am thinking of CERB, the wage subsidy and various other programs. The attestation-based approach made that very possible. Verification is certainly the objective, but it comes after the fact, which is about the only part of the speech from my hon. colleague across the way that I agree with. Verification was not possible at the beginning. It had to come after the fact because of the unique circumstance, which was a crisis. A crisis necessitates specific approaches tailored to the moment. This is why the government took the approach that it did. The work is ongoing to verify whether or not individuals, businesses and others were actually in need of the various supports that were received. Yes, there is respectful disagreement on the $27.4 billion between the CRA and the Auditor General, which is, again, a respectful disagreement over calculating the wage subsidy eligibility over GST revenue loss versus general revenue loss. That is a technical matter that will be sorted out. Over 800,000 notices of redetermination have been given to individuals. Thousands more will be sent. The work of the CRA continues on these matters. It is very serious about ensuring fiscal responsibility and verification.

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Context: House Hansard - 147 - Dec/13/22

Mr. Peter Fragiskatos

Dec/13/22 6:42:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I ask my hon. colleague what the Conservatives would have done had they been in power. What approach would they have taken? The result that we see is that the country was sustained. It was sustained because of these programs. The audit work continues. Verification is being carried out. It is being carried out in multiple ways and in line with international best practices. The member also neglects to mention that, in November 2020, in fact the Conservatives put forward an effort to delay verification and to delay the way the government would carry out that important work. I am thinking specifically of the wage subsidy here. The Conservatives want it both ways. They want to ensure that verification happens, which it is, but when they had the chance to ensure that it happened as soon as possible on the wage subsidy, they delayed it. I ask my hon. colleague, why is that?

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