44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 28, 2022 11:00AM
- Nov/28/22 1:59:56 p.m.
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I am sorry, but I am going to cut in to interrupt the hon. member. She will have 15 minutes and 45 seconds to complete her speech when we return to this. We will now go to Statements by Members.
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- Nov/28/22 2:48:20 p.m.
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Order. I understand that when a member is in close proximity to another member in the chamber, it is easy to yell or shout at them, but it is not respectful.
I want to point out the hon. member for Edmonton West. I could barely hear him, but voices really carry well. If he is going to heckle, maybe he could heckle a different way, but I recommend against heckling.
The hon. member can finish off his question, please.
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- Nov/28/22 2:54:45 p.m.
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The hon. Minister of Immigration.
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- Nov/28/22 2:55:14 p.m.
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Order. I want to remind hon. members that the protocol is to ask a question and then listen. They cannot hear the answer if they are shouting.
The hon. Minister of Immigration has about 15 seconds left if he wants to finish off that thought.
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- Nov/28/22 2:57:26 p.m.
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I will ask the member to wait until everyone quiets down.
The hon. member for Avignon—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia.
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- Nov/28/22 3:12:49 p.m.
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That is all the time we have today for questions.
The hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni is rising on a point of order.
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- Nov/28/22 3:13:55 p.m.
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I just want to explain what happened, because it did happen during question period. Normally what happens is the Speaker will stop the question and then either continue it or take it from the top. However, if I allowed every member in the House to not be happy with what is going on with his question or her question and stop when they wanted, it would happen a little too often. I am sorry that the hon. member did not like the way it worked out.
Now, let us go to the shouting that is going on. The hon. member was shouting and sometimes when it is close it really does make it difficult, so that is something I want to make sure everybody understands, including a member of the hon. member for Courtenay—Alberni's party, who sits just behind him and who makes a terrible amount of noise when other people are asking questions.
I want to put that point out there for all the members, and I want everyone to listen. When someone else is asking a question or answering a question, I ask every one of us to be respectful. Thank you.
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- Nov/28/22 3:15:47 p.m.
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Once again, I want to thank the hon. members, and I want to remind each and every one of them to respect each other in this chamber. They must not forget that they are putting out an example to the rest of the country and to people who are watching, along with children who are watching and trying to get an example. Therefore, trying to shout over each other does not set a good example.
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- Nov/28/22 3:16:26 p.m.
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Excuse my language. That is not a point of order, and I apologize for using language that is not parliamentary. That was my slip.
Now we will continue, if that is okay. Do we have any other points of order?
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- Nov/28/22 3:20:10 p.m.
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All those opposed to the hon. member's moving the motion will please say nay.
Hearing none, it is agreed.
The House has heard the terms of the motion. All those opposed to the motion will please say nay.
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- Nov/28/22 3:32:10 p.m.
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Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
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I am now prepared to rule on the point of order raised on November 22, 2022, by the member for New Westminster—Burnaby concerning the application of Standing Order 69.1 to Bill C-27, an act to enact the consumer privacy protection act, the personal information and data protection tribunal act and the artificial intelligence and data act and to make consequential and related amendments to other acts.
The member for New Westminster—Burnaby stated that there is a clear link between the first two parts of Bill C‑27, which respectively enact the consumer privacy protection act and the personal information and data protection tribunal act. He further noted that these elements were both part of the previous Bill C-11, which was introduced in the House during the 43rd Parliament.
However, the member argued that part 3, which enacts the artificial intelligence and data act, should be considered separately, because it does not directly concern privacy protection or the analysis, circulation and exchange of personal information. Accordingly, he asked the Chair to divide Bill C‑27 for the purposes of voting, as Standing Order 69.1 permits.
The official opposition House leader concurred. He added that, outside of clause 39 of the bill, which mentions the new consumer privacy protection act in the definition of the term “personal information”, part 3 of Bill C-27 does not refer to parts 1 or 2. Furthermore, the member for South Shore—St. Margarets stated that parts 1 and 2 of Bill C-27 deal with privacy protection, which has nothing to do with the subject of part 3, the regulation of the new industry of artificial intelligence.
On November 23, the parliamentary secretary to the government House Leader pointed out that privacy protection is the common theme that links every part of Bill C-27. In his view, the bill’s three parts constitute a framework for protecting the privacy of Canadians from the risks posed by artificial intelligence systems. He argued that dividing the bill would prevent members from considering all the risks and impacts that new artificial intelligence technologies may create for the security of personal information. He also noted that privacy laws do not adequately protect the public from new artificial intelligence systems and that, as a result, Bill C-27 should be considered as a whole.
Standing Order 69.1 gives the Chair the authority to divide the questions, for the purposes of voting, on the motions for second or third reading of a bill. The objective here is not to divide the bill for consideration purposes, but to enable the House to decide questions that are not closely related separately.
The Chair has carefully reviewed the provisions of Bill C‑27 and taken into account members' statements on the issue of dividing it for voting purposes. The Chair agrees that the bill's three parts are connected by a broad theme, namely, the use and protection of personal information. While parts 1 and 2 of the bill are closely related, this is not true of part 3.
The Chair is of the view that, given the lack of cross-references between part 3 and the preceding parts of the bill, with the sole exception being one reference to the new consumer privacy protection act—which serves to propose a common definition of the term “personal information”—dividing the bill for voting at second reading is justified.
In his intervention, the parliamentary secretary to the government House leader emphasized the common theme that links the three acts enacted by Bill C-27. In a decision on a similar matter, delivered on March 1, 2018, which can be found at pages 17550 to 17552 of the Debates, Speaker Regan said the following, at page 17551:
…the question the Chair must ask itself is whether the purpose of the standing order was to deal only with matters that were obviously unrelated or whether it was to provide members with the opportunity to pronounce themselves on specific initiatives when a bill contains a variety of different measures.
In the absence of a clear link between the three parts of Bill C-27, other than the theme of privacy protection, the Chair is willing to divide the question. Accordingly, two votes will take place at the second reading stage for Bill C-27. The first will be on parts 1 and 2, including the schedule to clause 2. The second will deal with part 3 of the bill. The Chair will remind members of this division before the voting begins.
If any part of this bill is negatived, the Chair will order the bill reprinted for reconsideration at committee.
I thank the hon. members for their attention.
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