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Ms. Pam Damoff (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Public Safety, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 1:36:57 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to speak today about the important amendments that are proposed in Bill C-5 as part of our government's effort to address systemic racism and discrimination. These are realities that are faced by racialized Canadians and indigenous peoples who come into contact with the criminal justice system, from initial interactions with law enforcement through to sentencing, incarceration and release. We have heard Conservatives in this place question whether their “tough-on-crime” approach of mandatory minimum penalties perpetuates systemic discrimination in the criminal justice system. It does. In 2020, indigenous adults accounted for 5% of the Canadian adult population but represented 30% of federally incarcerated individuals. Indigenous women now account for half of all federally incarcerated women. Black people are also more likely than other Canadians to be admitted to federal custody for an offence punishable by a mandatory minimum penalty, an MMP. Data from the Correctional Service of Canada from 2007 to 2017 shows that 39% of Black people and 20% of indigenous people who were federally incarcerated between those years were there for offences carrying a mandatory minimum penalty. Repealing those mandatory minimums is expected to reduce the overall rates of incarceration of indigenous people, Black Canadians and marginalized people. Bill C-5 includes three categories of reforms. First, it would repeal mandatory minimum penalties for all drug offences, some firearm offences and a tobacco-related offence. Second, it would allow for greater use of conditional sentence orders, also known as CSOs. The third and final category of reforms would encourage police and prosecutors to consider alternative measures, such as diverting individuals to treatment programs, when exercising their discretion in cases involving simple possession of a drug. These measures brought in by the previous government, while claiming to reduce crime, have proven to be ineffective, expensive, harmful and racist. The reforms found in Bill C-5 respond to calls from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and the National Inquiry into Missing and Murdered Indigenous Women and Girls. More recently, the parliamentary Black caucus, in their June 2020 statement, also called for the elimination of mandatory minimum penalties. Let me be clear: These reforms will not negatively impact public safety and they do not signal to courts that these offences are not serious. MMPs would remain for such serious offences as murder, sexual assault, all child sexual offences and certain offences involving restricted or prohibited firearms, or when the offence involves a firearm and is linked to organized crime. Bill C-5 will also increase the availability of conditional sentence orders, or CSOs. A conditional sentence order is a sentence of incarceration of less than two years that is served in the community under strict conditions, such as a curfew, house arrest or abstaining from possessing, owning or carrying a weapon. This proposed reform would increase access to alternatives to incarceration for low-risk offenders. Evidence shows that allowing offenders who would not pose a risk to public safety to serve their sentences in the community under strict punitive conditions can be more effective in reducing future criminality. I have told the story of Emily O’Brien before, but I think it is worth repeating. Emily was sent to federal prison for four years after her partner coaxed her into smuggling narcotics across the Canadian border. She was sent to Grand Valley Institution on a mandatory minimum penalty. During her four years there, she noticed how prison did not prepare women for integrating back into society. Once she was released, she knew she had to make it on her own because there were no supports, so she created her own popcorn company, Comeback Snacks, which not only makes delicious popcorn but has a mission to hire women who have been sentenced to prison so they will not re-enter the criminal justice system. Emily’s story is the exception to the rule: Most women who come out of the criminal justice system after MMPs actually come out much worse. Emily knew the privilege she had as a white woman with a post-secondary education. She had more resources and support when leaving prison than most women do. We know that mandatory minimum penalties impact indigenous women at a higher level. I saw this first-hand when I visited Grand Valley Institution for Women and talked to many indigenous women from the prairies who were sent to Ontario because women's prisons out west were too full. It became clear to me that MMPs were one of the reasons for the overcrowding of women's prisons out west, which had caused indigenous women to be separated from their communities, their families and their homes to serve a prison sentence. I met a woman from Flin Flon, Manitoba who had not seen her children in years because she had been sent to Ontario. She was heartbroken. I cannot help but wonder how, if this woman and others like her had been given a conditional sentence in her community, this would have impacted her children's lives and her relationship with them. Grand Valley Institution for Women has seen the number of indigenous women grow from 13 to 60 over the past two years, which is a direct result of the current sentencing regime of MMPs. Through testimony at the public safety committee on the study of guns and gangs, as well as through my own conversations with community leaders, it is clear to me that community-led gang diversion and rehabilitation can have a profound impact. In many cases, prisons in Canada are an avenue for gang recruitment. I just finished reading The Ballad of Danny Wolfe. In it, author Joe Friesen reinforces that Canadian prisons served as a key avenue for gang recruitment to this indigenous gang founded by Danny and his brother. They played a major role in the growth of the gang, which later became the largest street gang in Canada. My conversations with a parole officer and dedicated community leader who has been working in corrections for decades reinforced that it is critical to differentiate between hard-core criminals and young men who are seeking a sense of community through gang involvement due to connections between family and friends. By forcing judges to apply MMPs, which have been repeatedly found to be unconstitutional, our justice system fails to acknowledge the mitigating factors in a case that heighten young people's susceptibility to gang recruitment. Rather than sending people to prison and heightening the likelihood of them being recruited into gangs at alarming rates, it is important to support life-changing programs such as Liberty for Youth. Liberty for Youth is an amazing organization that advocates for second chances and assists at-risk youth in Hamilton, while providing a safe space where youth feel accepted regardless of their mistakes, struggles or life circumstances. Funding community organizations such as Liberty for Youth, the Bear Clan Patrol and OPK in Manitoba, and Str8 Up in Saskatchewan, which are on the ground in our communities and supporting individuals' transition away from crime, would have a greater impact on our public safety than putting vulnerable people behind bars. Supporting these young people in their communities is the rationale behind CSOs. However, CSOs are currently unavailable for all offences prosecuted by way of an indictment that are punishable by a maximum term of imprisonment of 14 years or life. They are also unavailable for all offences punishable by a maximum term of 10 years' imprisonment if the offence resulted in bodily harm, involved drugs or involved the use of a weapon. The proposed reforms would remove many of these limitations on CSO eligibility. Finally, while it is important to enact sentencing measures that aim to reduce recidivism and over-representation, it is equally essential to ensure that there are adequate off-ramps from the criminal justice system at the earliest stage of the criminal process, especially for conduct that could have been more appropriately treated as a health concern rather than a criminal one. To this end, Bill C-5 would require police and prosecutors to consider alternatives to laying or proceeding with charges for simple possession of drugs. Available alternatives would range from taking no action at all to issuing a warning or, if the individual agrees, diversion to an addiction treatment program. These measures are in line with a public health-centred approach to address substance use and the opioid epidemic in Canada. It is time for us to take a new approach. We will ensure that serious criminals continue to receive serious sentences, but we will put control of this back in the hands of judges. The reforms in Bill C-5 would be transformational for those most impacted by the systemic racism built into our criminal justice system, and I hope that members of the House will support it.

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Ms. Marilyn Gladu (Sarnia—Lambton, CPC)

Jun/14/22 1:46:31 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, the member opposite and I have worked together for a long time in this place on issues related to the status of women, so my specific question is on sexual assault. I have a real concern, with Bill C-5, that somebody who committed a sexual assault could actually not go to jail but be on house arrest in the community where they committed the offence. We know that although judges do great work, sometimes they do not get it right. We did hear lots of testimony about the judge who said to a complainant to keep her knees together, and a few other things like that. Does the member share my concern that maybe there should be more controls put in place?

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Ms. Pam Damoff

Jun/14/22 1:47:14 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, I could be incorrect, but I do not believe sexual assault is included in the package of reforms. Having said that, when we put people in front of the criminal justice system we need to rely on our judges to be able to provide sentences that are appropriate. I know the hon. member was part of a study we did on indigenous women in the criminal justice system, and getting rid of mandatory minimum penalties was one of the recommendations that came out of that report. It is seeing women be sentenced to time in prison when time would be far better spent treating their addiction, dealing with mental health issues and dealing with those core issues rather than sending them to a federal institution.

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Ms. Andréanne Larouche (Shefford, BQ)

Jun/14/22 1:48:10 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague. I have had the chance to talk with her at the Standing Committee on the Status of Women, and even at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security when I have had to replace my colleague at times. We agree. As far as mandatory minimum sentences are concerned, we know and see that there are more indigenous women in prison, as I mentioned in my speech earlier. Politics is all about perception. Does my colleague think it would have been a good idea to split Bill C‑5 in two? Let me explain. I agree that diversion measures are crucial and that opioids are a public health issue. However, we are debating mandatory minimum sentences at a time when crime is on the rise. My colleague knows that from the work at the Standing Committee on Public Safety and National Security, including on the issue of firearms. In the current context, given the perception and the sense of public safety, it might have been a good idea to split Bill C‑5 in two so that we could work on diversion and look at mandatory minimum sentences later. That would have given us more time to debate.

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Ms. Pam Damoff

Jun/14/22 1:49:15 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, I thank the hon. member for the work we have been able to do together in this place. When it comes to mandatory minimum penalties, I do not agree, first of all, that the bill should be split. This is an important aspect of ensuring that women are not being sent to prison when they should not be sent to prison. The intent of this bill has been misconstrued in the debate today. I heard debate earlier from the Conservative Party that is giving Canadians the impression that public safety would be at risk, and it would not be. Public safety would actually be enhanced if we are not sending people to prison. In my speech, I talked about how prisons are used to recruit people into gangs. If a young man, and it is predominantly young men, goes to prison and is not a gang member when he goes in, in all likelihood he will be a gang member when he is released. If we can find alternatives for those individuals, our public safety is greatly enhanced.

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Mrs. Sherry Romanado (Longueuil—Charles-LeMoyne, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 1:50:27 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, one of the areas we heard about over the course of this debate was people who are arrested and sent to prison for possession of narcotics for personal use. Often, what happens after they are eventually released is that they are prevented from being able to move on with their lives with respect to having criminal records and being able to find gainful employment. Could the member elaborate on how this would help people be able to correct the behaviour, get on with their lives and become productive members of society?

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Ms. Pam Damoff

Jun/14/22 1:51:16 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, the hon. member's question gives me the opportunity to talk about two women I met at the Edmonton Institution for Women. Both women had been trafficking in drugs. Both women were trafficking drugs because they were poor, had developed drug addictions of their own and had a man who was controlling them. They ended up in prison. They specifically told me that they were there because of mandatory minimums. With those women, we need to deal with the poverty issues they were facing and the drug addictions. They are not being served by sitting in the Edmonton Institution for Women.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Jun/14/22 1:51:56 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. At the outset, I will note that I will be splitting my time with the member for Provencher. Believe it or not, this is an area that is close to my heart as somebody who previously taught a sentencing class and somebody who worked in the criminal justice system, both in federal corrections as a defence lawyer and then as a Crown prosecutor. This is an area that I find a great deal of interest in. I have heard different perspectives, some more compelling than others today. What I find noteworthy is that most parliamentarians want to get to the same place when it comes to this debate. The question is: how do we get there? I was quite struck by some of the commentary that we have heard today because it was talking about where we want to be. The question, in my view, is whether this bill actually gets us there. If we look at the issue, I believe everybody in the House would resoundingly and unanimously say that they want gun crime to go down. There is no doubt about it. Nobody wants to see any more people shot, especially innocent civilians caught in the proverbial crossfire. The question then is whether this is the right mechanism to do so. I note that not once does the word “victim” appear in Bill C-5 or Bill C-21. Gun crime, in my view, and I think in the view of a lot of people in the House, is out of control. No one here wants to see more gun crime. We have two different approaches in Bill C-5 and Bill C-21. Bill C-5, with the elimination of mandatory minimums, has been a failed approach. I will note here something that is not brought up very often. The reality is that most mandatory minimums, when it comes to gun crimes, were actually struck down. When we talk about a failed approach, if the approach failed, it has most recently been since the time that the mandatory minimums were struck down. We have essentially been operating in a time where mandatory minimums have been struck down for most gun crimes, but not for robbery with a firearm, extortion with a firearm or reckless discharge. Those minimums remain, but under section 95, for instance, that was struck down in the R. v. Nur decision many years ago. It is not as though we are talking about statistics as of last week, last month or last year when mandatory minimums were in effect. Most mandatory minimums have been struck down. I want to now turn to what the parliamentary secretary said. When we look at the issue of overrepresentation, there will be no issue from me. I remember being a 22-year-old and a 23-year-old going to work in federal corrections for the first time and noting the overrepresentation of indigenous people, for instance, in the justice system. At that time, it was about six to one in terms of overrepresentation, so it was very substantial. As a young man, it was something that I had to learn about and, frankly, the decisions I made had to address. That is something I am quite proud of. It is also something I had to address as a prosecutor. We have the R. v. Gladue decision, the Ippolito decision, and we also have subsection 718.2(e), I believe, that address this specific issue of overrepresentation. I was bound by those ethical precepts to address Gladue considerations in sentencing, and I always took great pride in putting those considerations at the forefront of my decision-making. Where the parliamentary secretary and I part company is where he notes, on behalf of the government, that we are looking at alternatives to incarceration while keeping the public safe. This argument might hold water, but for the fact that there are serious offences that are included in this bill. I am going to fast-forward to them. For reckless discharge with a firearm, section 244(1) reads that, “Every person commits an offence who discharges a firearm at a person with intent to wound, maim or disfigure, or endanger life”. We are talking about public protection. We are talking about gun violence. We want to reduce gun violence overall, yet this provision was included in Bill C-5. This allows what I would characterize commonly as a drive-by shooting. Rather than signal we are not going to allow a community-based sentence for such a serious offence, the question should be the length of incarceration. It is paradoxical. I asked the parliamentary secretary about this, and I cannot remember his exact response, but essentially it was that I was using rhetoric. I am not using rhetoric. I am simply pointing out that a sentencing option now exists for drive-by shooters to serve their sentence in the community. I am not sure how we get here. I just do not know how the principles of sentencing in section 718 are enhanced and put forward by conditional sentence orders for drive-by shootings. The hon. parliamentary secretary spoke about systemic racism, and he then spoke about corrections. My point is that I have no issue with targeting racism anywhere in Canada, none whatsoever. He talked about the custody ratings scale. As someone who has completed the custody ratings scale and who previously worked in corrections, I know that, if he wants to address the custody ratings scale and the overrepresentation of people in maximum security in federal custody itself, then he should do that. We would do that by amending the Corrections and Conditional Release Act, not by allowing conditional sentence orders for people who commit offences such as extortion with a firearm, robbery with a firearm, or most seriously, reckless discharge or discharge with intent. The hon. parliamentary secretary talked about Conservatives wanting to lock people up and throw away the key. Nothing could be further from the truth. What we want is a safe society with just sentencing—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Jun/14/22 1:59:18 p.m.
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I am sorry to interrupt, but I will try again to get some silence in the outer chamber because the noise is very disturbing. The hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo.

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Mr. Frank Caputo

Jun/14/22 1:59:27 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, the hon. parliamentary secretary referenced Newt Gingrich, saying that mandatory minimums were not successful in the United States. In my view, the United States' experiment with mandatory minimums was completely different than the Canadian approach. In the United States, sentences are often 10 times what they are here, and it has the three-strike rules. We do not have that in Canada.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Jun/14/22 2:00:17 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I ask members to say their names: Shireen Abu Aqla and Ghufran Warasneh. They were women Palestinian journalists killed while doing their jobs, covering what was going on before their eyes. They were killed by the Israeli military and, somehow this is even more shocking, their funerals were attacked by the Israeli military. The pallbearers were blocked as they tried to take them to their place of eternal rest. The Vatican representative in Jerusalem denounced this as brutally violating decades-old agreements to hold Jerusalem sacred to the three main theist religions, all of whom find spiritual significance in Jerusalem. We must, in this country, say something. We must do something. We call for an independent inquiry into the killing of these two brave, women Palestinian journalists. Canada must step up.

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Mr. Terry Duguid (Winnipeg South, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 2:01:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to express my sadness and anger at the horrific terrorist attack that took place in Owo, Nigeria, on June 5. I send my condolences to the families of the victims, to Nigeria and to our Nigerian community here in Canada. This senseless act of hate occurred at St. Francis Xavier Church as the congregation was gathered for Sunday service. During the closing hymns of their Pentecost celebration, several armed men entered the church and opened fire, killing over 50 men, women and children. These innocent worshippers were murdered simply because they were practising their Catholic faith. It is disheartening to see that in many countries around the world, including here in Canada, hate-based violence has been on the rise in recent years. Everyone deserves to feel safe in their community, regardless of their religion, culture, sexual orientation or ethnicity. Now, more than ever, we must stand together as one human family against hate and intolerance in all its forms.

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Hon. Kerry-Lynne Findlay (South Surrey—White Rock, CPC)

Jun/14/22 2:02:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have the honour of rising in the House today to recognize the South Surrey and White Rock Chamber of Commerce, which is celebrating its 85th anniversary of serving the business community this year. I am proud member of this organization, and I have enjoyed working with its leadership on multiple occasions to champion local businesses, including popular information town halls during the pandemic lockdowns. The chamber has always been a community builder, bringing together residents and businesses through unique events and initiatives, such as chamber chats and the recent “Let’s Get Local!” campaign, launched as part of the celebration this year. This campaign is all about supporting and promoting entrepreneurs and local businesses, large and small. It could not have come at a better time as Canada recovers from COVID-19.

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Ms. Annie Koutrakis (Vimy, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 2:03:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, students in Vimy and across Canada will be finishing their school year in the next few days. I still remember how stressful and exciting June was, what with exams, graduation ceremonies, prom and the start of summer vacation. I am proud of the dedicated teachers and staff at the excellent schools in my riding of Vimy, such as Laval Junior Academy, École Socrates-Démosthène and École Secondaire Saint-Maxime. I encourage all students to keep working hard and stay curious, because they will become the future leaders who will enrich our society. A good education will lead to a better and more fulfilled life. I want to thank all the teachers, school staff and family members who support our future leaders in their endeavours. To the students of Vimy and across Canada, I remind them that the sky is the limit, and I wish everyone a safe and memorable summer.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

Jun/14/22 2:04:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, ethnic cleansing continues to claim thousands of lives in Tigray, Ethiopia. Sexual violence is being used as a means to destroy Tigrayan women's reproductive capacity. Children are suffering the effects of armed violence and hunger because of a blockade imposed by Amhara militia groups and Ethiopian government forces. While the war in Ethiopia threatens to destabilize the Horn of Africa, the Tigrayan diaspora in Canada and Quebec has been demanding for the past two years that the Canadian government impose sanctions on the Ethiopian government for crimes against humanity in Tigray. We can only admire the courage of the members of United Tegaru Canada. These Tigrayan men and women are fighting hard for their cause while Canada turns a deaf ear. Tigrayans in Canada and Quebec have only one question for this government: When will it impose sanctions on the Ethiopian government and demand access to humanitarian aid for Tigrayans?

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Hon. Steven MacKinnon (Gatineau, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 2:05:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to rise today to pay tribute to Anne Boutin, who will celebrate her 35th anniversary this year as the executive director of Pointe aux jeunes youth centre in Gatineau, an organization that I visit often. Ms. Boutin has dedicated her career to working with teens in the community. From the early days of her career, she has been determined to develop many bold and innovative projects that bring youth together and offer them a healthy, vibrant environment. Ms. Boutin is steadfast and creative in her work, overseeing initiatives such as the Caravane à vélo, movies in the park, and winter coats for children in need. On behalf of myself and all of my colleagues here in the House, I sincerely thank her for contributing so much to the youth of Gatineau. Happy 35th anniversary.

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Mr. Tako Van Popta (Langley—Aldergrove, CPC)

Jun/14/22 2:06:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in my riding of Langley—Aldergrove, we celebrate Canadian Environment Week by planting trees. They are mere seedlings now, but in the process of growing up, they will add beauty to our community and greening for the planet. On Saturday, June 4, with the help of Langley Environmental Partners Society, we gave away 500 native tree seedlings. Admittedly, 500 trees is not nearly as impressive as the two billion trees the government keeps promising, but our trees are real trees. As they grow up, they will add real pleasure and contribute to the greening of our planet. I want to thank our friends at LEPS Nichole, Carmen and Ben; my volunteers Jane, Jim and Elizabeth; and Home Depot for hosting us once again. Of course, I also want to thank the constituents in my riding for celebrating Environment Week in this very real and tangible way.

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Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (Scarborough—Rouge Park, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 2:07:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, languages are at the core of who we are. They are the means through which we express ourselves and our culture, share stories and pass on knowledge throughout the generations. Languages are at the heart of our cultural identity and integral to our collective well-being. Since colonization, hundred of indigenous languages and dialects in Canada have been lost. According to UNESCO, 75% of the remaining 17 indigenous languages in Canada are endangered. As we mark National Indigenous History Month, I want to thank the elders, knowledge keepers and teachers of indigenous languages. I want to honour the resilience of those who persevered to maintain these precious languages. As we continue to march toward reconciliation, I want to highlight the work of the recently appointed Commissioner of Indigenous Languages, Ronald Ignace, who is here in Ottawa today. Let us work together to support indigenous people's right to self-determination and the right to maintain, reclaim and revitalize their languages as a fundamental tenet of reconciliation.

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Mr. Sameer Zuberi (Pierrefonds—Dollard, Lib.)

Jun/14/22 2:09:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, June is CDKL5 Awareness Month. Amelia is a five-year-old resident in my riding. She is a young girl in Pierrefonds—Dollard who suffers from this rare disease. CDKL5 is a neurodevelopmental condition caused by a rare gene mutation. It also is one of the most common forms of genetic epilepsy among young girls. Amelia lives with this disorder, and it is an honour to talk about her bravery here today. Amelia's parents have been making her home accessible for her, fundraising so that her home is safe. Throughout it all, Amelia has been cheerful, spreading love and joy all around her. CDKL5 Awareness Month's motto is, “Hope. Love. Cure.” I encourage Canadians to learn about this disorder during this month.

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Mr. Robert Kitchen (Souris—Moose Mountain, CPC)

Jun/14/22 2:10:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on June 1 and 2, the city of Weyburn hosted the Saskatchewan Oil and Gas Show 2022. The event was a resounding success, with people coming from all over the country to see and learn about the latest developments in Canada's vital oil industry. I send my congratulations and thanks to the chair, Dan Cugnet, and all of the organizing committee. Unfortunately, one topic often discussed was the astronomical price of gas and the negative impacts it is having on the people of Saskatchewan. With the current price of gas hovering over $2 per litre, people in rural areas are going to have to start choosing between things like driving to work that week or putting food on the table. The people of Souris—Moose Mountain deserve more than a Liberal government that sits by and watches them suffer while refusing to use the tools they have available to fix the situation. My constituents and all Canadians deserve a break. While the Prime Minister continually says he has Canadians' backs, the only thing he has done is twist their backs to the verge of breaking.

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