44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 14, 2022 10:00AM
- Jun/14/22 11:12:05 a.m.
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The hon. parliamentary secretary is rising on a point of order.
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- Jun/14/22 11:12:10 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, the amendment has been read. The member should be submitting it to the Chair and should not be further debating.
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- Jun/14/22 11:12:15 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
The hon. parliamentary secretary is correct. Once the amendment is read, there is no further debate.
The amendment is in order.
Questions and comments, the hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.
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- Jun/14/22 11:13:56 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I cannot believe that, just before moving the amendment, the member actually said that police might choose not to do their jobs because of a policy that the government made. I thank God that the police forces throughout Canada do not operate in the same way that Conservative politicians do: picking and choosing when they think it is important enough to actually listen to the policies that have been created by this place.
Nonetheless, one would think, by listening to the intervention there, that individuals would not have to face any jail time whatsoever. We do not even have to read between the lines. The member said, and I quote, that this bill would let criminals “off the hook”. That is absolutely untrue.
What this bill would do is actually put the decision-making into the hands of the judges. They are the people who hear the cases, the people who deliberate over them and the people who render judgment at the end of the day. I am certain that those judges will continue to render strict decisions when necessary.
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- Jun/14/22 11:15:00 a.m.
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I want to remind the member for Battle River—Crowfoot that I did not ask him for questions and comments. I did not recognize him, and if he has questions and comments then he should get up and try to be recognized at that time. For anyone who is yelling “time”, I would just say I do have a clock in front of me and it is to my discretion.
The hon. member for Kildonan—St. Paul.
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- Jun/14/22 11:15:26 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I can tell that the member opposite is quite fired up about my speech, and that is good. He should be. He should be angry about his government bringing forward a bill that would allow house arrest for those who rape other people. Sexual assault now could have house arrest.
The member puts a lot of trust in judges. I respect our judges as well, but I do not always agree with them. For example, the Supreme Court recently said that if a person was intoxicated, that could be a defence for rape. Judges do not always get it right, and the member opposite should remember that.
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- Jun/14/22 11:16:05 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I take particular exception to the remarks by the previous member that completely distort what is going on in Bill C-5. They distort not only what is going on in Bill C-5, but the position of police in Canada on the bill. Both the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police and the National Police Federation, which represents RCMP officers, appeared in committee and supported this bill. What is going on here by Conservatives is an attempt to distort the actual impacts of the bill and create some crisis in public safety when, in fact, the bill would do exactly the opposite.
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- Jun/14/22 11:16:40 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I am shocked that the member opposite would suggest that there is not a crisis in public safety, following years and years of soft-on-crime Liberal policies. I talked extensively about that. I guess we will have to see. We will have to see what happens to the crime statistics after Bill C-5 comes in. I hope I am wrong. I hope there are not rapists serving house arrests next to the individuals they raped. Based on the powers of this bill to give discretion to judges, I am deeply concerned that individuals who brandish firearms and shoot them at people in their communities now would not have to go to prison for it. I will not apologize for standing up for vulnerable communities and the risk to them, first and foremost, that this bill would present.
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- Jun/14/22 11:17:24 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, we have heard a lot about Portugal's successful experience with diversion programs. We have not heard much about what happened in Switzerland.
The Swiss tried a tough-on-drugs approach in the 1990s and it was a disaster. AIDS cases skyrocketed and drug houses appeared everywhere, among other issues. They implemented four measures that made all the difference: prevention, treatment, harm reduction and law enforcement.
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on these successful approaches to diversion.
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- Jun/14/22 11:18:14 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, again I will reiterate that those suffering from drug addiction need that to be treated as a public health issue. That is why, in the last election, we ran on a policy to build more treatment beds for individuals who are suffering. Those who suffer from drug addiction should not be going to jail. They should be going into treatment. Unfortunately, we do not have nearly enough treatment beds in this country to help the thousands of Canadians who are addicted to dangerous and deadly drugs. I will stand by our position on eliminating mandatory prison time for drug pushers and drug smugglers. Those individuals are responsible for killing thousands of Canadians and should absolutely be behind bars.
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- Jun/14/22 11:18:51 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, earlier today, we heard one of the Liberal members talk about the high rate of reoffending. I fail to see how Bill C-5, if it lets people out of jail early, is going to do anything to protect the public safety when people are reoffending, which is what the Liberals said.
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- Jun/14/22 11:19:14 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I just got some information today that there were 378 repeat offenders recently arrested for committing other crimes, who were also charged with 853 counts of breaching firearms prohibition orders.
Often in these communities, it is a small group of people who are consistently caught and released who are terrorizing these communities over and over again. These individuals are responsible for the deaths of people in vulnerable communities. They are responsible for firing firearms with the intent to injure individuals or robbing them at gun point, over and over again. The rap sheets of these criminals are getting longer and longer, yet they are allowed to continue walking the streets terrorizing vulnerable communities and Canadians at large.
This is deeply concerning. It needs to end, but the only way that is going to happen is if we can get the Liberal government out of power.
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- Jun/14/22 11:20:10 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, in response to my question, I could not believe what I heard. The member said, “I respect judges, but they do not always get it right.” That is just an example of the fundamental misunderstanding of the justice system and how it is supposed to be implemented.
The member should also be respecting the decisions that the judges make because that shows that someone generally understands, appreciates and respects the judicial system in Canada. Instead, what the Conservatives are trying to say through that comment is that we are going to try to put a fail-safe in place for when, in their opinion, the judges do not get it right.
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- Jun/14/22 11:20:51 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I will ask the member opposite this: Does he believes the Supreme Court was correct in saying that intoxication for violent crime can be a defence for rape and homicide?
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- Jun/14/22 11:21:05 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, my colleague talked about crimes committed against women. That issue certainly was discussed at length at the Truth and Reconciliation Commission.
In the case of call to action 32, the Liberal government proposed allowing judges to depart from mandatory minimum sentences in some circumstances of crimes against indigenous women. In this case, it gave judges the choice to impose such sentences or not, depending on the circumstances.
To send the right message in order to counter crimes against women, is this a solution the Conservative member might consider?
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- Jun/14/22 11:21:43 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I thank the member opposite for her question. We have worked together on committee and I thank her for her hard work.
Winnipeg is the epicentre of murdered and missing indigenous women. It is an extremely serious issue that is wreaking havoc on Winnipeg's north end, in particular, and in our northern reserve communities. It is very serious. I know this issue very well, having worked for the provincial government at the time.
We can go back to Bill C-5. It allows house arrest for sexual assault and for kidnapping. It allows no prison time for firing a gun with the intent to injure, for robbery with a firearm and for extortion with a firearm. These are very serious offences faced most of all by the most vulnerable in our society. We see this time and again: There is story after story of indigenous women and girls suffering at the hands of criminals doing these exact crimes who will no longer have mandatory prison time as a result of the Liberals' Bill C-5. It is unacceptable.
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- Jun/14/22 11:22:49 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I would like to thank my colleague for bringing up the genocide of murdered and missing indigenous women and girls. I want to point to the national inquiry in which specific calls for justice called, in fact, for the end of mandatory minimum sentences because of the over-incarceration of indigenous women. This includes the 98% of women in prisons in Saskatchewan who are indigenous. They call for a complete end to mandatory minimum sentences.
Does my colleague stand in solidarity with indigenous women, and will she support this call for justice?
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- Jun/14/22 11:23:34 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I thank the member opposite for her question and I applaud the work that she has done on this file. She is very knowledgeable. I would not claim to know as much as she does about this important issue. I deeply respect her.
I would say that we will disagree on mandatory minimums, particularly when it comes to violence against indigenous women with firearms. There are firearms offences that are extraordinarily dangerous in this bill and the individuals who are terrorizing vulnerable communities, including indigenous women, may no longer face prison time. In fact, they may be serving house arrest in the communities of the women they terrorized. I could not in good conscience vote for a bill that would do that.
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- Jun/14/22 11:24:17 a.m.
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- Re: Bill C-5
Madam Speaker, I would like to mention that I will be sharing my time with my colleague, the member for Shefford.
Bill C‑5 is another bill containing a mix of good and bad measures, and it puts us in a position where we have to hold our noses and accept the measures we would otherwise oppose.
The legislative summary reads as follows: “This enactment amends the Criminal Code and the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act to, among other things, repeal certain mandatory minimum penalties, allow—
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- Jun/14/22 11:24:52 a.m.
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Order.
The hon. member said he would be sharing his time, but he needs to seek the unanimous consent of the House.
Mr. Rhéal Fortin: Madam Speaker, I seek the unanimous consent of the House to share my time.
The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): All those opposed to the hon. member moving the motion will please say nay.
Agreed.
The House has heard the terms of the motion. All those opposed to the motion will please say nay.
Seeing no opposition, I grant the request.
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