44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 31, 2022 10:00AM
- Mar/31/22 12:46:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in the latter half of her speech, the member talked about the agreement that the Liberal Party and the NDP came to as being a slap in the face of democracy. This is exactly what democracy is about.
Democracy is about finding compromise. Democracy is about working together. Democracy is about putting forward our ideas and testing them, and looking for compromise and solutions we can move forward with together.
Democracy is not about the Conservative approach of standing up, day after day, and pinpointing individuals, whether it is the Prime Minister or a particular minister, chastising those individuals and attacking their character all day long. That is the only thing we see from the Conservative Party. We never see anything from them that has to do with advancing and promoting the democratic ideal.
For the member to stand up and say that working with another party in a parliamentary democracy is somehow a slap in the face towards democracy is ludicrous at best.
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- Mar/31/22 1:30:46 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I always find the hon. member for Kenora very level-headed in his approach and in the manner in which he presents his position on matters. I do not say that to contrast him with some of his colleagues. I say that because I genuinely appreciate it and I want him to know that.
One of the primary things that I find problematic in this motion is that the second bullet specifically refers to the CPP, the Canada pension plan, as a tax. It is not a tax. This is money that is generated by the employer and the employee. The contributions are calculated annually, and the employer and employee both pay into this in order to provide pensions for individuals later on in life. It is a form of retirement savings that has nothing to do with taxation.
Can the member provide comments on why he thinks the motion is worded like that?
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- Mar/31/22 1:45:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am wondering if the member can also refer to the debts of the other G7 countries, because the reality of the situation is that it is more important to base the value of the Canadian economy against the economies of our trading partners. To value what the Canadian economy is genuinely worth is to value our debt-to-GDP ratio. The reality is that we have the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio, so that actually means that we are in the best fiscal position when compared to our G7 partners in terms of where we can go to rebuild our economy.
I am wondering if the member can weigh in a little on those facts.
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- Mar/31/22 4:19:56 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I reject the notion that CPP and EI are taxes. They are not. They are called “source deductions”, as related to the manner in which businesses collect them.
This member's concept or notion, that somehow just because it is on a balance sheet means it is a tax, is inaccurate. If I have a business and I contribute and collect a benefit for an employee, that will show up on my business in the asset column and my obligation to that employee to pay it out later on will show up as a liability. Therefore, it is entirely correct from an accounting perspective to list the CPP as an asset, especially if there are billions of dollars in there that the government is essentially managing for the people who that money is owed to, later on. It will show up as an asset and it will show up as a liability.
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- Mar/31/22 4:25:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, although I do not take particular exception to being told that I do not know what I am talking about, I will tell the member for Calgary Centre that I have been collecting and paying EI, CPP and WSIB on behalf of employees since 1997 and turning them over to the government.
To his point, what I said was that if I were to collect a benefit and hold on to that, which would later be turned over to that employee at another point, what I was holding on to would have been considered an asset. I did not say paying those source deductions would be considered an asset, which is the way he characterized the answer to my question.
Nonetheless, I am thrilled to have the opportunity today to talk about this particular motion. I want to congratulate the Conservatives for bringing forward a motion once again that actually has substance. This is the second time I am saying this within two weeks. Yes, they deserve to applaud themselves for that, because quite often what we see coming before the House are grandiose motions that really just look to paint individuals into a corner and to put people in a certain negative light. This is actually talking about substance, so I can appreciate their interest and I can appreciate that they have actually brought something forward.
This is an issue of whether or not we agree with this concept. I will explain where my issues lie with the motion. I am going to start by addressing some of the premises that the motion is based on.
I have been listening to the discussion. Earlier today, I heard the member for Brandon—Souris say that only a Liberal government could increase tax on those making over $200,000 a year and bring in less revenue. I would say in response to the member that only a Conservative MP could not understand the very simple logic of empowering the middle class that moves our economy forward. It is giving the middle class a break, which is what we did and what he was referring to, that has driven forward the economy. That has given us one of the best economies, if not the best economy, in the G7 over the last six years. It is what has delivered us to the point of being able to have the lowest debt-to-GDP ratio in the G7.
As a matter of fact, as I mention the debt-to-GDP ratio, I would note that Canada is currently in the best position among our G7 partners. It is very interesting. I sound like a broken record, I realize that, and I know the Conservatives think that I do, but I hear them once again go back to discussing the debt, and how much debt there currently is, and how this government is running a deficit.
I would tell them, and I have told them many times in the House before, that Brian Mulroney never ran a surplus. He ran a deficit. Stephen Harper had one surplus. That was when he was first elected. That was actually Paul Martin's surplus, but whatever. Then Mr. Harper did “balance” the budget just before the 2015 election. How did he do that? He slashed veterans' services and sold off GM stock at bargain prices. Yes, he got himself to a position where he could say that he balanced the budget, if that is what we are measuring success by, but I would argue that was only to run in that 2015 election so he could appease his base who were pushing him in that direction.
Why do we do that? Why do we run deficits? Why do governments run deficits, typically speaking? They do it because they are looking for opportunities and they want to make sure that we can continue to invest in our economy, because they know that if the economy is growing at a faster pace than the deficit, we are actually generating a net positive at the end of the day. That is why all of the OECD countries are always pinning themselves against the debt-to-GDP ratio. At the end of the day, that is what matters.
What did we do? We brought in meaningful programs before COVID hit. We brought in programs that asked the top income earners, the 1%, to pay more. Yes, we did. We gave a tax break to middle-income Canadians, because we knew that they fuel the economy.
What did we see out of that? We saw economic activity grow at an astronomical pace in Canada. We were among the best in the world for a domestic economy.
Then what happened when COVID hit? COVID hit and instantly everything came to a halt because people were understandably concerned. They were not aware of what was going to happen and there was a great pulling back in what people were willing to spend their money on and invest in, and I am talking about businesses specifically.
Afterward, we made sure that the supports were there to give businesses and Canadians, and quite frankly those investing in the Canadian economy, the confidence they needed to know that the Canadian government would be there for them to get them through this and out on the other side.
Within five weeks, we were the first to deliver supports to Canadians. When I say “we”, I want to give credit where credit is due, because the Conservatives voted in favour of that. Had they not come forward and said, yes, they would give unanimous consent to spend this money immediately, it would have dragged the process down and it would have taken a lot longer to get the supports. A lot more doubt would have been put into businesses and Canadians.
Conservatives should take the credit for that, the credit that they are rightfully owed, in terms of their participation in that.
That is what gave the confidence and the economy the confidence it needed to continue going. Where have we found ourselves afterward, as we have started to come out of COVID? We have started to see that we are rebounding back. We have recovered 114% of jobs lost since the pandemic. We have the best GDP in the G7 right now.
The economic infrastructure in the beginning put things in the right place. Because of what we did during the pandemic, we are going to reap the rewards coming out of this. We are in a better position than our counterparts throughout the globe and as a result Canadians, Canadian businesses and those that invest in Canadian businesses will be the net beneficiaries of that.
The motion talks about a path to balance. This party ran in an election six months ago promising to spend more than we were spending. The member for Durham, the leader of the official opposition during that election, and maybe this is why they got rid of him, said that he would balance the budget in 10 years.
That was the member for Durham. That was his commitment, to balance the budget in 10 years. I understand the frustration of some members, perhaps those that are responsible for this motion, and where they are coming from, because maybe they did not agree with that, but the reality is that this is where this particular political party, the Conservative Party of Canada, was less than a year ago, only six months ago, during that election.
One of the problematic parts of this motion is specifically with respect to item (ii). I know it has come up a couple of times and that NDP members have raised it, as well as members from this side of the House. I have asked a couple questions on this, and section (ii) is where it refers to the Canadian pension plan as a tax.
If this was just about semantics, and if this was just about terminology and payroll taxes and source deductions meaning the same thing, I would be totally fine with it. The problem is that they explicitly refer to it as a tax and then later on they say “no new taxes”. What they are basically saying in here is that CPP will not go up.
It is ironic, because the member for Barrie—Innisfil just stood there and was reading clips he had received from constituents. One of them, and I do not know if he had read them in advance, but I wrote it down when he said it, was from a gentleman by the name of John. John wrote and complained about the costs of living right now, saying that the only thing he would have to survive on later was his measly CPP.
The member for Barrie—Innisfil read that out less than 40 minutes ago right in the House. Meanwhile, his motion is calling on reducing the contributions toward CPP.
CPP is paid for not just by the employee but also by the employer. It is a well-regarded, well-respected plan that has been in this country for a long time. I understand the previous speaker from Calgary Centre, and I understand that he has an immense background in business. I can truly and genuinely appreciate that his logic or his position on the way that businesses should operate, in seeing only its value and thinking that a business will make a decision to leave Canada or start reducing payroll employees just because of a CPP increase.
I would suggest to him that our economic environment, our country and our social fabric represents so much in this country in terms of why businesses want to be here. Businesses are not just here because of taxes. I know that from when I was the mayor of Kingston. Quite often we would have businesses trying to come to Kingston and they would say they wanted to talk about how much we charge for water or they wanted to talk about property taxes.
At the end of the day, even though we were more expensive than Brockville or Belleville and a number of other locations, they saw the value in establishing their business in our community. I would offer to the member for Calgary Centre that businesses do not just look at what it is going to cost from a strictly monetary perspective. They also look at employee retention. People loved setting up businesses in Kingston because they knew that the employment base was there. They knew that there was a labour force there that was ready and willing to work.
If we can make sure that we have the right programs in place to make sure that throughout Canada we have the right employees who are trained properly and willing to work, I would suggest to the member for Calgary Centre that the increases in the CPP will be looked at as an investment in people, not strictly a cost of doing business, as he suggested.
I also want to talk about was price on pollution. I will also correct the member for Barrie—Innisfil on something he said earlier. Again, I was listening very closely, as I try to do with everyone when they are speaking. He said the cost per litre was going to go up by 11¢. That is not true. The cost is currently 8.8¢ and will go up to 11¢, so the cost is only increasing by 2.2¢. I will give the member for Barrie—Innisfil the benefit of the doubt. He probably said it very quickly and did not realize what he was saying, but it is important for people to know that it is not an increase of 11¢, as he said earlier.
More importantly, pricing pollution is such a widely accepted and regarded policy. Half of the G20 countries have some form of pricing pollution. The former leader, the member for Durham, ran on pricing pollution. I know it was not exactly the same plan. The member for St. Catharines referred to it earlier as a plan that said the more that is burned the more that is earned. That is true because it was a plan that basically said, if someone spends x number of dollars on their version of carbon pricing, they would get some form of credits, Air Miles or something, where they could then go to a boutique somewhere, I imagine, and start buying these green products.
I do not understand how these members who ran on this just six months ago cannot understand that this is exactly what we have now. The only difference is that we are not encouraging people to go out and spend more so they could get more Air Miles. We are encouraging people to look for ways to spend less and pay a smaller price for carbon. If we do that, then it will drive people to actually spend less, but they will have a net benefit because the amount to be redistributed is equal.
I just want to say—
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- Mar/31/22 4:40:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, although I am pretty sure we can refer to trademarked or copyrighted material in the House, he is correct. I am being facetious when I call it “Air Miles”. What were they calling it? I believe it was the carbon rebate program, where people stacked up points and got neat prizes. Whatever it is called, it is what it is.
I was going somewhere with this. I want to congratulate the Conservatives because they are finally at the point where they are able to have the words come out of their mouths that acknowledge the fact that money is being given back to people. They raise important questions.
They brought up a couple of times lately during question period about how much money is going back, whether is it eight out of 10 Canadians or six out of 10 Canadians and who is benefiting from it. Those are the conversations we should be having in this House, because at least those conversations start from a point of factual accuracy. They start from a point of understanding the concepts before we start engaging in the discussion. Now I can have a discussion with them. Now we are going to discuss whether the math is lining up and whether the money is going to the right places, as opposed to just obtusely ignoring the fact that the money is distributed to Canadians in the first place. I am really thrilled.
I particularly want to mention the member for Kenora, who was willing to talk about that in his speech, and I heard at least one other Conservative member talk about it as well. At the end of the day, when it comes to this particular program, I am in favour of the model that has been created. It is important to point out that not all provinces have the price on pollution that was implemented by the federal government. In many areas, it can be done by the provinces.
The Province of Quebec does it, as we heard earlier from the Bloc. As a matter of fact, a member brought it up earlier, the member for Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, who talked about the program in Quebec specifically. He talked about how it was a deal that was set up with California. He is right. I know this because my father was the environment minister in Ontario when that was put in place. Ontario was actually in that same program with Quebec and California, but, unfortunately, on day one, Doug Ford bailed and got rid of Ontario's participation in cap and trade. That is why the federal government had to implement its program, as it has had to do in several other jurisdictions, such as Alberta, which had a program in place that was removed.
I am glad that we are talking about an important issue today. I am glad that the Conservatives seem to be taking seriously their role as it relates to bringing forward motions of actual substance. This is a good discussion to have. I do not agree with a lot of what is in this motion. I will not be voting in favour of it, and I do not think I am surprising anybody by saying that. Nonetheless, I appreciate the position that Conservatives are taking, and hopefully we can find compromise on something else.
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- Mar/31/22 4:45:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there is a lot to unpack in the question.
However, specific to the member's comments about CPP, it is a program that people are investing in for the long term. In theory, the people who are investing in it today will not be making withdrawals from it for several years, depending on how far they are from retirement, and we need to make sure that the investments continue to remain up so that when those individuals look to retire 20, 30, 40 years from now or whatever it might be, they have an opportunity to have economic security when they retire.
The member brought up a couple of other points that escape me right now, but perhaps one of his colleagues will ask them and I will be able to answer them then.
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- Mar/31/22 4:47:32 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I remember one of the comments from the member previously, and it was about the path to balancing a budget. I would say to the member for Calgary Centre that the most important thing is to be aligning ourselves in a favourable position as it relates to our debt-to-GDP ratio, because that is what is important. That is what signals the ability we have to repay that debt, and that is so much more important, as previous Conservative governments themselves signalled through their budgets.
On the member's question specifically about how we deal with the challenge as it relates to lack of employment, yes, it is a big challenge that we have. My understanding is that in 2021 alone, half a million new immigrants who came to Canada became permanent residents. I think that is one of the ways, quite frankly, that we are going to deal with this.
My parents came to Canada in the 1950s, post World War II, in search of new opportunity. Their parents looked at Canada as a shining light in the world; as a place to become prosperous and a place to set up new roots. I think we can do the same thing now to make sure that we keep growing our economy so that we can take care of baby boomers.
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- Mar/31/22 4:49:42 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would certainly agree with the first part of what the member said.
The reality is that I do not think that running deficits is coming from a place of not properly managing a budget. Conservatives, as the member rightly said, did it, and in 16 budgets between Brian Mulroney and Stephen Harper, only two were either balanced or ran a surplus. I talked about those in my speech earlier.
The important thing here is that people understand, and governments know, that the most important thing is growing our economy faster than we are taking on debt. That is how we end up paying for it. That is how developed countries throughout the world are doing it. Conservatives know that. It is a great talking point for them, because they know it resonates well with people out there. I do not blame them for doing it, but the reality is that they should know better than to speak like this, especially the member for Calgary Centre who—
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- Mar/31/22 4:50:56 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, 100% I think it is a problem.
According to the Conservatives, a year ago the Prime Minister was incapable of doing anything right, and now they are suddenly giving him credit for being able to affect global inflation.
Inflation is a global problem. For this Conservative member and for many other Conservative members to stand up and try to suggest that inflation is only a Canadian-made problem means they do not get out and look around or read a newspaper to see what is going in the world. This is a global problem. This is not a uniquely Canadian problem.
Do I think it is an issue? Absolutely. Do we need the proper tools and policies in place to deal with it? One hundred per cent we do, and I am very confident that this finance minister will come forward with those.
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- Mar/31/22 4:52:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, absolutely, there are those prices that people are seeing right now, today, as the parliamentary secretary mentioned. Insurance costs are rising as a result of more flooding and various other issues.
There is also the price that future generations will pay. The less we do now to fight climate change and to put the right policies in place, the more we will make our children deal with later on. I know that Conservatives are very concerned about what our children will have to deal with later on. They bring it up all the time, but they only bring it up in a monetary perspective, in a dollar value. There is also the value of the quality of life, the quality of the environment and the planet that we are leaving children decades from now.
I want to make sure that my children, the parliamentary secretary's children, all members' children and all Canadian children have the best possible shot at having the best possible lives when they get older.
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- Mar/31/22 5:31:31 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, on a point of order, I believe if you seek it, you will find unanimous consent to see the clock at 5:45 p.m. so we can start Private Members' Business.
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Madam Speaker, it is an honour today to rise and speak to this private member's bill that has been through the Senate. I understand that it has been introduced a number of times. I think this is the third attempt. After being passed by the Senate, it has been brought over to our chamber for debate to see if we can get it passed here to establish February 21 as international mother language day.
I think this bill perfectly illustrates and speaks to what Canada is about. I truly appreciate the comments that were made by my NDP colleague prior to this. He so passionately laid out the realities of our country. However, unless someone is of indigenous descent, we have all come to Canada over the last couple hundred years. For whatever reason there may have been at the time, whether to escape war, to seek out a new place to establish and grow a family or to seek refuge from other incidents that were happening throughout the world, Canadians have come here over the last couple hundred years, unless they are of aboriginal descent.
I think this is such a uniquely Canadian bill. We are not the only country that welcomes people from other parts of the world. A lot of people immigrate to the United States. A lot of people immigrate to other countries. However, what makes Canada unique is that when people come here, we make a point of trying to embrace cultural differences.
To go back to the comments that were so passionately and well put by my NDP colleague, we failed miserably as it relates to those who were here before European settlers started to come here. There is no doubt about that, and I think everybody in the House knows we have a tremendous amount of work to do on reconciliation. However, the idea that we embrace culture and that we look to celebrate it truly is uniquely Canadian, in my opinion.
We can look at particular parts of the United States where a lot of people come. There is this concept or idea that they have to conform to American culture. However, when we look at Canada in particular, we embrace this idea of celebrating that diversity, because we recognize that our diversity is what makes us stronger. By building tolerance, building acceptance and encouraging people to be part of Canada, they never forget where they came from. I think when we look at what this bill is attempting to do by designating one day every year specifically to celebrate our unique mother tongues, it is a way and an opportunity to continue to grow and foster those historical and heritage links we have.
I think of my parents, for example. They both immigrated post-World War II in the 1950s. My mother is from Italy and my father is from Holland. They both come from war-torn countries that were trying to rebuild after the Second World War. In both cases, their parents said they were going to move to Canada to look for a new way of life. However, when they came here, as was the case with so many European settlers at that time, they brought their unique mother culture and mother tongue with them.
I have a unique situation in that, if we look at my mother's side of the family, there are seven children and the majority of the children married Italians, so Italian was spoken quite a bit in the household. With the exception of my mother and one other uncle I had, they all married Italians. In my household there was a Dutch father and an Italian mother, so we did not really get to experience the rich culture the way we might have if both parents had come from the same part of the world.
We would look for opportunities. In Kingston, we had Folklore, which was very popular in the 1980s and early 1990s, where different pavilions would be established throughout the city on a weekend as an opportunity to showcase Ukrainian culture, Italian culture, Portuguese culture and various different cultures that were established. It was a way to celebrate their roots. Unfortunately, as time goes on and children are born and generations pass, people end up in a place where they start to lose that link and forget about the rich identity that their grandparents or great-grandparents brought to Canada. The bill gives us an opportunity to look toward how we can re-establish those roots and make sure that they live on for generations to come.
I would be remiss if I did not also talk about the incredible indigenous cultures that we have throughout Canada. Unfortunately, a big stain on Canadian history is that, although we were so willing to embrace cultures from other parts of the world, particularly, as I referenced, European immigrants in the 1950s and more recently Asian immigrants, we did an incredible disservice, an incredible hardship, in trying to eliminate the cultures of indigenous people in Canada.
Although this might be just one tiny step toward that reconciliation, because that reconciliation involves so much, I am really pleased to hear the member who introduced this and indeed just about every member who spoke to this today talk about the importance of using this tool, this opportunity to celebrate those cultural differences, in the context of lifting up indigenous culture as well. As I look back to the 1980s and 1990s, and talk about Folklore in my community, I do not ever remember any indigenous pavilions. They were largely forgotten or at least pushed aside to the point where they did not have the opportunities to continue the culture.
A lot has changed since then. Every March we have Maple Madness in Kingston, it is an opportunity for people to see how maple syrup is made. In recent years there has also been an exhibit on how indigenous people used sap from maple trees. It is by making sure that inclusion is there that we will properly tell the story of Canada, a story of not just over the last couple of hundred years, but the story that goes back thousands of years.
I very much welcome the bill the member for Fleetwood—Port Kells has brought into the House. I understand that it has already passed the Senate. As I indicated, this is the third try. I am certain that the third time will be the time that it passes, having had the opportunity to come before, but in any event, I want to congratulate the member on bringing forward such an important bill that, although it might just talk about establishing one day, if indeed people utilize this properly, it could be an incredible resource and an opportunity for generations to come to showcase the incredible differences that we have and the incredibly various parts of the world that we came from.
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