44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 3, 2022 10:00AM
- Mar/3/22 10:43:51 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. I think I understood the gist of it.
Right now, it is very important that we make Canada's gas supply available to the world. Countries are currently getting gas from Russia, and there are needs in China. The Russian pipelines to China are very important for that country. We need to build pipelines so that we too can sell our gas to China.
This is a global issue, and we need to address it with our natural gas industry.
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- Mar/3/22 10:55:18 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to come back to the Conservative Party motion.
Does the Liberal government believe that by building pipelines, thereby “allowing Canadian natural gas to displace Russian natural gas”, as the motion calls for, we will will meet the current needs of a serious war and crisis in Ukraine, where thousands of women and children are forced to flee and leave the men behind?
Does my colleague think that is the solution?
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- Mar/3/22 12:04:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague across the aisle for his remarks. Natural gas is clearly about defence and security. That is why there has been a raging debate in Europe about Nord Stream 2. It is why Germany just cancelled Nord Stream 2 in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine. It is why Donald Tusk, then prime minister of Poland in 2014, in response to Russia's invasion of Ukraine, asked the European Commission to come forward with a strategic framework to address the fact that Russia is intimidating Europe with the use of natural gas. In that strategic framework, the European Commission said that the European Union should partner with Canada in an energy partnership on natural gas precisely to counter Russia's threats in eastern Europe and in Ukraine.
Natural gas produces the nitrogen that fuels the world's food supply. European farmers today are facing a crisis in skyrocketing fertilizer prices caused by natural gas shortages from Russia. There has been a massive drop in fertilizer in western Europe of 10%, and it could lead to serious crop failure and a drop in crop yields this year. It happened a century and a half ago in 1853-56 in Ukraine, in Crimea, during the Crimean War and led to skyrocketing food prices around the world. This is why energy is important. It is not just about defence and security, but also our food supply.
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- Mar/3/22 12:07:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I really would hope that my hon. Liberal colleagues are not going to support this motion to expand gas line production, because we are afraid of what Russia is going to say. I just want to put that on the record.
We have been unanimous in standing up on the issue of Ukraine. What we are seeing is the Conservatives using this as a wedge to undermine our credibility by saying that our number one issue at this time, of all the issues that we are dealing with from Russia, is to undertake measures to ensure new, natural gas pipelines be approved. That is such a cynical and exploitive position. I certainly hope the Liberals are not going to go there with them.
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- Mar/3/22 12:31:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as long as we need energy, I will always fight for Canadian energy. It is not only me asking that. We have seen the Chancellor of Germany asking for support from elsewhere. We have seen the Democratic President of the United States asking to have more people working on that. We have seen the l'Union européenne asking to have partenariat with other countries.
Canada is the fifth-largest producer of natural gas, and I will always fight for Canadians.
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- Mar/3/22 12:41:13 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have had the opportunity to have some interventions in the House before this one, and I have lamented the idea that the text of the motion is focused quite narrowly on pipelines and natural gas. I think this House should be having a conversation more broadly about food production, energy and critical minerals, because those are what will be extremely important in Europe in a changing foreign policy dynamic.
As a member from the province of Nova Scotia, I think of the Goldboro LNG project. The text actually talks about pipelines, but it makes no mention of the actual liquefied natural gas facilities that would be important in exporting to Europe.
Would the member opposite at least recognize or acknowledge that in transitioning energy to Europe, this type of infrastructure would be extremely crucial, in addition to looking at existing pipelines without building new ones?
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- Mar/3/22 1:13:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Winnipeg North for his discourse, partly on Vladimir Putin.
That being said, it really baffles my mind that we could go on about supporting the people of Ukraine and really loving them, while in short they are dependent on natural gas from their aggressor. If there is an opportunity in the longer term to change such things, why does the Liberal government want to continue to use short-sighted policies that would not help people in the longer term, understanding the security nature of using things such as energy as a weapon?
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- Mar/3/22 1:57:11 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I welcome the conversation and discussion. I agree that it needs to be had.
However, I do not believe that the issue of energy independence and the issue of our ability to use our natural gas to support other good actors in the world and other democratic nations in Europe are separate. I think this is actually key and critical, because the dependence of Europe on natural gas puts Europe in a difficult position. I think these issues are completely intertwined, but I look forward to a further conversation.
I am wondering if the hon. member could comment on that.
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- Mar/3/22 2:40:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we, and certainly European countries, would agree that the dependence on Russian oil and gas is a significant problem for Europe that it must move to address. European ministers have made that commitment, including at the International Energy Agency ministerial meeting I participated in earlier this week.
We are working very actively with our European colleagues and with our American colleagues to ensure we are working to help address both short and long-term energy supply issues in the context that Europe and Canada have committed to do, which is in the context of fighting both the crisis in Europe and the crisis of climate change.
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- Mar/3/22 3:44:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am not sure what the question actually was, but I will say this.
As I said in my speech, the need for natural gas is going to go up by an estimated 22% by 2040. We can pretend that we are going to live in a world where we do not need natural gas and that renewables are going to magically take over all of our energy needs. That world does not exist. Until it does, we actually need things such as natural gas. Why do we not use the cleanest, safest natural gas in the world to help countries around the world and, of course, help Canadians and the Canadian economy?
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- Mar/3/22 3:46:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, you are making me feel old.
The nature of that question, quite frankly, is shameful. Energy security is one of the reasons why there has been such an issue with appeasing Vladimir Putin and the Russian Federation. The threat of natural gas being shut off to Europe was a tool he used to try to exert his influence.
We can actually do multiple things at once. Maybe the New Democrats can only do one thing, and say, “We can only do this, and therefore we do not think about that”. We can actually think about planning for a future where Canadian natural gas can provide energy security around the world, while we do other things. We in the Conservative Party, in the opposition, can walk and chew gum at the same time.
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- Mar/3/22 3:48:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, that is a legitimate question.
What the member from the Green Party ignores is that, often, natural gas is replacing far more carbon-intensive and dirtier fuels such as coal-fired electricity plants. When we talk about using natural gas, what we are actually doing is taking a much higher-polluting source of energy and replacing it with a much lower-polluting source of energy. That, in itself, is a win.
Of course, we dream of the day when we are all powered by solar and, who knows, even cold fusion, but those days are not here. We are living in this reality, and right now natural gas can actually provide the global security that we need. I hope all members will vote for this motion.
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- Mar/3/22 4:44:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, to my hon. colleague from the Maritimes, it has been brought up whether there was an ask for this type of resource.
The Polish ambassador came to me a couple of years ago. What he could not understand was why there was not an LNG place on the east coast close to Poland, as they were building a very large reception centre. He outlined exactly what he thought would happen, which has happened today. He was very concerned. We have had people approach us. The Polish ambassador was in my office very concerned, asking for our natural gas.
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- Mar/3/22 5:10:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is not realistic to think that hot air balloons filled with natural gas will be departing for Europe tomorrow. I understand that my colleague is asking whether this idea has some potential in the long term.
The answer is unfortunately no, because we need to think about transitioning in the long term.
Even if it were possible and realistic in the long term, would it be something we would want to do? I do not think so. I think we have moved on.
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- Mar/3/22 5:10:49 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in Europe, tens of millions of people do, in fact, rely on natural gas to heat their homes, and Russia is funding its war machine from those exports. I understand the member's point that we cannot build a pipeline overnight, but in his speech I noted that he kind of shrugged off the energy needs of European consumers by saying that OPEC could increase its supply. OPEC countries have their own shameful histories of exporting war and using their resource income to finance wars as well. The European Union has, in fact, very clearly said that it needs partnerships with countries such as Canada to supply its energy.
Will the member acknowledge, as natural gas is still an important commodity that is necessary for the world economy, that it ought to come from a democratic country such as Canada? It should not come from OPEC and certainly not from Russia.
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- Mar/3/22 5:12:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I readily acknowledge that natural gas is important to the economy, even if we will eventually have to move on from it.
When we talk about transition, we are not talking about throwing everything overboard from one day to the next. That is not what transition is about. We are doing things intelligently. There are sectors where you do not want to throw anyone out on the street tomorrow. We have to do things in a planned, strategic, and thoughtful way. That is the issue.
Now, my colleague acknowledged in his question that the oil and gas pipelines would not be built overnight. Basically, we are talking about something impossible and hypothetical, and I do not even understand why this solution is being mentioned at this time.
If the natural gas has to come from countries that my colleague describes as democratic, some countries, such as the United States, are in a much better position to ensure that supply in the short term because they have pipelines that can be connected to ports that allow for the exports.
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- Mar/3/22 5:14:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as my colleague has already said, no European leaders have asked us for Canadian gas.
Worse still, is this entire debate not becoming one big greenwashing exercise, even though there is no such thing as green oil or green gas?
Instead, we should be thinking about a transition, which is what the European leaders are asking of us. I would like my colleague's thoughts on that.
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