44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 28, 2022 11:00AM
- Feb/28/22 7:39:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I commend the hon. member for this thoughts and his speech. It seems to be a general consensus that sanctions are the way to go, specifically Magnitsky sanctions.
He mentioned that he had a conversation with Bill Browder. I have always appreciated the advice that Mr. Browder has shared with me over the years. I was just wondering if the hon. member could share with the House any specific thoughts that Mr. Browder had with respect to sanctions and any specificity, particularly on Magnitsky sanctions.
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- Feb/28/22 7:40:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Mr. Browder really wanted to highlight that sanctions will only work if they target Putin. Putin is not someone who cares about his country. He has robbed from the country. However, he does care about his wealth, and his wealth is hoarded by oligarchs.
The member pointed out that Magnitsky laws provide for the provision of corruption. There are many cases where we can tie oligarchs who are close to Putin with corruption, and those oligarchs need to be sanctioned. We need to start naming and sanctioning specific oligarchs closely connected to Putin who are involved in corruption. That will significantly impact Putin in a way that can apply real leverage and pressure on him to stop this war.
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- Feb/28/22 7:41:17 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the leader of the NDP talked about Magnitsky sanctions. As a matter of fact, I worked very closely with Bill Browder when former senator Raynell Andreychuk, who was from the other place, and I brought forward legislation in 2017 to have the Magnitsky Act become legislation. Unfortunately, the federal government has not used Magnitsky sanctions since 2018.
For people to understand how the kleptocracy works in the Kremlin and Russia and how corrupt Vladimir Putin and his inner circle are, everyone needs to read Red Notice. Bill Browder wrote that book about Sergei Magnitsky, who his lawyer and accountant at the time, and who was trying to tell the truth of what was happening there. Sadly, of course, he was arrested, impugned and beaten. He then died from his injuries in prison.
We know we have a lot more work to do. I would ask the leader of the NDP to talk more about how the government should be using Magnitsky sanctions because it sends the message, in concert with our allies from around the world, that our country cannot be used as a safe haven for corrupt foreign officials, for those who steal from their own citizenry and commit gross human rights violations. We have never seen human rights violations for a long time at the level we are witnessing right now in Ukraine, and they are all being carried out by Vladimir Putin and his war machine.
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- Feb/28/22 7:43:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what has been identified really clearly is, if we want to apply pressure on Putin, the current approach with sanctions, while symbolically important, will not impact him. He has amassed significant wealth by stealing from his own country, so sanctions on the country will not be sufficient to curtail his actions or send a clear message that will hurt Putin personally.
The only way to apply pressure in this case is make President Putin feel the pain. We know that his wealth is held and hoarded by oligarchs, many of whom have been identified by many advocates. We need to identify and sanction those specific oligarchs with Magnitsky law, the sanctions and powers we have. That will send a very powerful message and hurt Putin where it counts, which is his greed and the wealth he has amassed by stealing from the country and Russians.
That is what we need to do. That is a powerful tool, which has yet to be used effectively, and it is part of what New Democrats are calling for, which is to apply real leverage and pressure to end what is going on in Ukraine, to end the violence and stop Putin from continuing to do it.
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- Feb/28/22 7:44:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, this is an extremely serious time. I agree with most of what the NDP leader said, especially what he said about more targeted sanctions.
Does he think sanctions should be applied to Belarus to bring about the fastest, most conclusive results possible? That is what the Bloc Québécois believes. I would also like to know what he thinks about maintaining contact with embassies and ambassadors, as other parties have proposed.
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- Feb/28/22 7:45:22 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, under normal circumstances, sanctions can be imposed and diplomacy can be used to send messages. In this case, however, it is clear that President Putin is not paying attention to such gestures. He only cares about money. That really is his weakness.
If we really want to help the Ukrainian people, who are suffering at the moment, the sanctions must hit President Putin by targeting the oligarchs and their wealth. That is how we can really put pressure on President Putin. Other tools, sanctions and efforts will unfortunately not work, because Putin does not care about normal things. On the other hand, if we target the oligarchs, we can put pressure on Putin and hit him where it hurts the most.
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- Feb/28/22 7:46:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the leader of the NDP for his strong condemnation of the attack by Russia on Ukraine, his support of measures that will take the fight directly to Vladimir Putin, and his suggestion to take up some of the measures that I and my New Democrat colleagues have been suggesting for a long time to help Ukrainians get to Canada in an expedited fashion by, for example, eliminating the visa requirement.
We know that one component of Putin's attack on Ukraine very much has to do with disinformation and how Putin and the Russian administration under him have excelled at propagating disinformation through social media. We have felt the effects of that even here in Canada. We have known for a long time that part of the Russian strategy has been to decentre western democracies through disinformation. We are going to have to be very vigilant during the battle between Ukrainian forces and Russian forces to understand and appreciate the role of disinformation.
I wonder if the member has some thoughts on what government could do, and what individual Canadians could do, to fight against the propagation of disinformation on social media?
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- Feb/28/22 7:48:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is true that we have already seen the impacts of the campaign of disinformation led by Russia to particularly target democracies. They do so by propagating messages, information and propaganda that are incorrect. They repeat the lines that Russia is encouraging people to believe. It is information designed to subvert democracies and incite hatred against different groups. In this case, it is against Ukraine.
We have seen clear, concerted attempts to incite hatred against Ukraine that are baseless, and we have seen propaganda that is baseless.
There is a couple of things that we could do. The first is to be very careful. When we see information, we should be very careful about the source and make sure it is a source that we trust, a source that has been verified before spreading any of its messages. There is a clear effort, and we will be targeted with disinformation.
The second is that government has a strong role to play. We have seen, through a number of different accounts, including whistle-blowers, that social media benefits from divisive rhetoric and comments, and they amplify messages that might divide people because, whether it is people criticizing that message or supporting it, it will keep more people on their platform.
Governments have to play a role in ensuring that disinformation is not spread and is not allowed to be spread. It cannot be left in the hands of social media companies, which would give those messages that are divisive and that create controversy more space and amplify them in people's feeds. That is why government has to take a role in stopping the spread of that information. It is something we have long called for.
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- Feb/28/22 7:49:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time with the member for Thunder Bay—Rainy River.
I am proud to rise today during this take-note debate in the House of Commons to speak to Russia's military invasion of Ukraine. A couple of days ago, I was joined by several of my colleagues in requesting this emergency take-note debate in the House of Commons. We felt it was important to provide an opportunity for members of all parties from all parts of the country to speak to this issue and to discuss Canada's and the international community's response to what is happening in Ukraine. I would like to thank all parties for their support for the motion to have this emergency take-note debate.
During our last take-note debate I shared a story with all members about my grandfather, Yvan, and how I was with him when Ukraine declared its independence. He was a great patriot. When Ukraine declared its independence, it might have been the proudest day of his life. My grandfather said to me that day that, now Ukraine was independent, we would have to keep up the fight for Ukraine's independence. I was 14 years old at the time and I asked him what he was talking about. I thought Ukraine had declared its independence, as people wanted, and the world had recognized it. I said to him, “You are wrong.” However, I was wrong.
In 2014, Russia twice invaded Ukraine and Crimea and Eastern Ukraine. In 2014, the world did not do enough. It did not impose enough sanctions. It did not send weapons. It did not do enough to support Ukraine and to deter an invasion. Now Vladimir Putin has begun an unprovoked, full-scale invasion of Ukraine. He has attacked the entire country, and not just the soldiers defending Ukraine's borders. He is targeting and killing civilians: men, women and children. He is bombing buildings. He is bombing kindergartens and much more. Civilians are dying as we speak.
The courage of the Ukrainian people and the Ukrainian armed forces has been inspiring. It is not just soldiers who are fighting courageously, it is men, women, people of all ages, seniors, are taking up arms. They are outnumbered and they are outgunned, but they keep fighting. They are holding the line against a much larger, much more well-armed military.
In Ukrainian we say, “Slava Ukraini. Heroyam slava.” This means glory to Ukraine and glory to the heroes. I think we can all agree that Ukrainians are living up to those words right now. For those of us with Ukrainian ancestry, this touches us personally, but this is something that concerns all Canadians. It is a humanitarian crisis. We see not just the soldiers being killed, but civilians being killed, as well as civilians being displaced and civilian communities being bombed. This is an attack on Ukraine's sovereignty, but it is also an attack on democracy in the international rules-based order. It is a threat not just to Ukraine's security, but to Europe's security, the world's security and Canada's security.
Ukrainians are fighting bravely, and they are fighting for their freedom. They are fighting for their homeland, but they are also fighting for something else. They are fighting for all of us. Today, this impacts all of us. This affects all our security. It affects democracy around the world. It affects global security.
Today, they are fighting for all of us. Today, we are all Ukrainian. Ukrainians are fighting for us, and we need to fight for them. That is why Canada and our allies must do everything possible to stop this invasion and to ensure Russia withdraws from Ukraine.
Canada has taken a tremendous number of steps along with our allies. Today, we banned crude oil exports. We announced that we are going to provide additional lethal weapons to Ukraine, anti-tank weapons, and other rockets and systems that Ukraine has requested. We will ask the CRTC to review RT's presence on our airwaves. We need to get rid of RT in Canada.
We have previously provided two shipments of lethal weapons. We trained over 30,000 Ukrainian soldiers, who are fighting so bravely as we speak right now, and we have imposed a tremendous number of sanctions against Vladimir Putin, his oligarchs and the central bank and much more. These sanctions are having a significant impact, but it will not be enough until Vladimir Putin stops, until Ukraine is free.
Today, the House unanimously supported my motion that called on Canada to do a number of things, including continuing to impose sanctions, the provision of additional support to the government of Ukraine and the Ukrainian armed forces, the issuing of an additional order for the CRTC about RT and broadcasting policy, and the removal of Russia from SWIFT and the payment system.
We have to keep working until we stop Vladimir Putin, until the Ukrainians win. They are fighting for us.
In 1991, on that day with my grandfather, I was wrong. In 2014, the world was wrong. There is too much at stake. Ukraine's security is Europe's security and is Canada's security. Ukrainians are fighting bravely for freedom, but they are also fighting for us, and we need to fight for them.
Today we are all Ukrainian. Today everyone in the free world is Ukrainian, and today we can all say slava Ukraini, heroyam slava.
Glory to Ukraine. Glory to the heroes.
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- Feb/28/22 7:55:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Saskatchewan has a large Ukrainian community, with as many as 15% of the province's population tracing their roots back to Ukraine.
Last week the provincial Government of Saskatchewan sent a letter to this government, asking it to prioritize immigration applicants from Ukraine who have already applied under the Saskatchewan immigrant nominee program as well as to fast-track refugee applications from Ukrainians bound for Saskatchewan.
Can the government commit to working closely with the provincial Government of Saskatchewan on these priority items so we can help as many Ukrainians as possible?
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- Feb/28/22 7:56:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for his advocacy around helping those Ukrainians who are displaced and fleeing their country and need our help. Canada has an important role to play in making sure we support those who need our help, providing humanitarian assistance and also welcoming Ukrainians to Canada, where they can find refuge.
The Government of Canada has been working very closely with provincial governments and will continue to, I am sure. What the Government of Canada has shown to date, through the measures that have been announced over the last few days and today, is that we are taking every step possible to ensure we help facilitate Ukrainians coming to Canada, finding safety here and continuing to build this country, as Ukrainian Canadians have for generations.
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- Feb/28/22 7:57:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his remarks.
This has been raised a few times today, and my colleague just mentioned it again, but I am not sure we have had a clear answer as to whether the government is considering waiving visa requirements for Ukrainians coming to Canada, whether on a temporary or permanent basis, since it is an emergency situation.
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on that.
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- Feb/28/22 7:57:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Canadian government has already demonstrated that it will work to support people who are fleeing war and Ukraine.
I hear the member's suggestion, and I thank him very much for that. I think it is vitally important that Canada do everything it can to bring Ukrainians who need out to Canada.
The government has already announced that we are doing this, and we will continue to work on it.
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- Feb/28/22 7:58:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to thank the member for his words in solidarity with the people of Ukraine.
Whether they are bringing their children to safety or fighting for freedom and democracy, Ukrainians are showing the world what courage looks like, and we have to support them. I have spoken to so many people in my community here in Victoria who are worried about their family members. Parents, grandparents, people with disabilities and people with young children are trying to get to safety and need to get here quickly. We know our immigration and refugee system is broken and extremely backlogged. We are witnessing this unfolding humanitarian crisis.
Can the member speak to the urgent need to provide more resources and measures to help those in need of support and resettlement who are fleeing Putin's violence? As well, does he agree that Canada should provide visa-free access to all Ukrainians?
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- Feb/28/22 7:59:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank the member for her intervention and her advocacy.
The humanitarian needs are tremendous. I actually asked a question of the minister about this today. Civilians are being killed as we speak. Hundreds of thousands, if not millions, are being displaced and fleeing. There is a tremendous need for the world to do so much more to support those who are fleeing, and I certainly believe that to be the case.
As for allowing Ukrainians to come visa-free, those who look at my record will know about my advocacy of ensuring that closer people-to-people ties with Ukraine over the years. I will continue to do that. There is no time more important than now, when Ukrainians are in need and Canada can help. The government has done that and will continue to do that.
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- Feb/28/22 8:00:47 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, many Canadians have a connection with Ukraine. There are a lot of new immigrants from Ukraine in Canada, and first and foremost my thoughts are with them, because they have immediate family and friends in Ukraine. I can certainly imagine what it is like for them every time they hear the phone ring, wondering who is calling and about what.
There are many other Canadians like me. I spent the first number of years of my life living with my parents and grandparents in a part of Fort William, which is now Thunder Bay and which has a large Ukrainian-Canadian population. My baba was from near Horodenka and my dido, or grandfather, was from Kamyanets-Podilskyy. I spent many summer evenings as a child sitting with my baba on the steps of her corner store, which actually was not on the corner, partly because baba used to brazenly bribe me with Fudgesicles and Creamsicles from the store in order to get me to sit with her. She would sit for hours singing old Ukrainian hymns and telling stories about what used to happen in the old country. That was in between going in and out of the store and selling people cigarettes and candy.
Because so many of my early memories revolve around Ukraine and Ukrainians, even though I do not speak Ukrainian and even though I have only visited Ukraine once in my life, I feel very much that Ukraine is part of my soul.
Of course, people do not have to be Ukrainian in order to sympathize with what is happening in Ukraine or with Ukrainians. We all see the pictures, but the pictures are only a very small part of what is happening in Ukraine. Certainly, we have statistics, contested statistics, about the number of deaths and injuries, but let us remember what Joseph Stalin once said, which is that a million deaths is a statistic and one death is a tragedy. Certainly, for each statistic, every death is a tragedy; it means a phone call to a parent telling them a child will not be coming home or that a child will not have their parent coming home as they told the child they would.
All of this tragedy is the direct and total responsibility of Vladimir Putin and the people who support Vladimir Putin. It is Vladimir Putin who decided to walk in the steps of Joseph Stalin. Ukrainians and Russians are, in fact, brothers and sisters, but this is brother killing brother. The only brother who kills his brother is a madman like Putin, but let us not forget, in this immense human tragedy worthy of Dostoevsky, the suffering of many Russians as well, many of whom are dying fighting their brothers and sisters in Ukraine. Let us also not forget about the mothers and fathers of Russian soldiers who are anxiously awaiting their children's return from Ukraine.
As a doctor who has certainly dealt with death and has worked in places where I saw a lot of trauma, including close to war zones, I can absolutely tell members that the suffering of a parent losing a child or the suffering of a child losing a parent are exactly the same. It does not matter whether one is from Ethiopia, Haiti, Thunder bay, Ottawa, Ukraine or Russia.
In my allotted time I could have talked about more lofty issues, such as the fact that this invasion presents an existential threat to the international legal order, which it certainly does; how that international legal order grew, in no small part, out of the Second World War; and the fact that in so many ways the UN charter and international legal order were the result of the Second World War and the sacrifices so many Russians and Ukrainians made in that war. I also do not have too much time to talk about what we can and cannot do, other than to repeat what a number of people in our party have said, which is that all options remain on the table.
To my family in Ukraine, some of whom, as I speak, are waiting with guns for the Russians to come; to their parents who are worried and praying for them; to the people of Ukraine; to the very many good Russian people: I support you, my family supports you, the Canadian people support you, good people all around the world support you, and certainly this Parliament supports you.
Slava Ukraini.
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- Feb/28/22 8:05:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, one of the most effective tools that the world has at its disposal right now is to stop the imports of Russian oil and gas. I certainly will say that I do acknowledge and congratulate the government for stopping that from coming into Canada, but we also could, with our Canadian energy, be the replacement for that Russian oil and natural gas with our good, clean, environmentally responsible and friendly Canadian oil and gas.
Had the Liberal government only recognized those benefits of our energy as the environmentally friendly energy that it is, the ability to grow our economy and create jobs here in Canada, and the way that our energy respects human rights and would enable peace and security in the world by stopping dictators like Vladimir Putin from being the source of energy instead, we would have a much safer place. We would have a much stronger ability to go after the Russians for what they are doing in Ukraine.
Will the Liberal government finally get behind our oil and gas industry and stop preventing its success?
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- Feb/28/22 8:06:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, indeed hindsight is 20-20. I think most of us a month ago, two months ago, six months ago, would not have predicted that Putin would actually have gone into Ukraine.
As to the situation right now and whether we should cut off Russian supplies of oil and gas to Canada, I personally support that idea. However, the devil is always in the details. What is an alternative right now? We certainly do not want people to be unable to heat their houses or to see businesses closing down in Quebec because they do not have access to heat or oil. I think our government has already said and made clear that all options are on the table. This is certainly something we have to consider.
Certainly we need to go on an economic blitzkrieg against Russia. We have to go on multiple fronts against Russia just like Russia went against Ukraine. We ought to harm Russia economically however we can, whether it means imports, exports or financial connections, absolutely everything. We go after Russia.
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- Feb/28/22 8:07:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague from Thunder Bay—Rainy River said something interesting. He said that the only brother who kills his brother is a madman. Well, a distant cousin who watches the brother kill his brother might also be described as a madman.
What does my colleague think about the possibility of imposing equally severe sanctions on Belarus as are being imposed on Russia?
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- Feb/28/22 8:08:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the truth is that I personally had not considered what we are going to do with Belarus when I was in question period today. In fact, I admit that when the Bloc brought up Belarus, it caught me off guard, but I absolutely agree with the member.
I cannot speak for the government, but I agree that countries have to choose sides. It is the same with China: Choose a side. Either be on the side of globalization and the right side or be on the wrong side. Belarus chose. It chose to be on Russia's side. Let it suffer the same consequences as Russia.
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