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Mr. Richard Cannings (South Okanagan—West Kootenay, NDP)

Feb/8/22 10:22:14 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to pick up on some of the barriers that these people face. They face many barriers, but when I talk to people who work with those struggling with addictions in my riding, in my hometown of Penticton, places like Discovery House, Pathways, Moms Stop the Harm, one of the big barriers is the stigma that many people have against those struggling with addiction. I had the opportunity to have dinner with the Consul General for Portugal last summer, Marta Cowling, and we talked extensively about Portugal's experience with this. One of the big successes in Portugal when it decriminalized possession of small amounts of drugs was a great reduction in the stigma. When something is criminalized, these people are seen by many as criminals, and they are not. They are people struggling with a medical condition. I wonder if my colleague could comment on that.

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Mr. Mike Morrice

Feb/8/22 10:23:24 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, the three-word answer is that we need support, not stigma. We need to recognize that this is part of a vicious cycle. The stigma is part of why we need to move toward decriminalization. That is what helps us move away from this, which was one of the five core challenges the task force called out, as we move toward decriminalization.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Feb/8/22 10:23:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am very pleased to be a part of the discussion despite the late hour. We are gathered here this evening to address a major public health problem, the opioid crisis. We are here because the member for Ajax tabled a notice of motion on February 4 calling for a take-note debate on the opioid crisis in Canada to take place tonight, February 8, 2022. The opioid crisis is not an especially divisive issue. I believe everyone here would like to stop it. Our approaches to achieving that, however, can be very different indeed. In a nutshell, the Bloc Québécois wants to implement diversion for simple possession, with the support of frontline health care services. Let us begin by defining opioids. Opioids are natural or synthetic substances that act on one of three main opioid receptors in the central nervous system. Whether injected or ingested, these substances can have an analgesic or depressive effect. Just to be sure we are all on the same page, here is a list of some opioids: oxycodone, morphine, hydromorphone, fentanyl, codeine, heroin and methadone. Whether prescribed or not, these types of drugs cause users' tolerance to increase over time. Users might need to increase the dose to feel an effect. This goes hand in hand with the obvious psychological and physical dependence that can lead to overdose. Opioid deaths in Quebec and Canada increased from 3,000 in 2016 to over 6,000 in 2020. In four years, the number of deaths doubled. The same statistics are seen in the United States. This is huge. It is sad. It is a crisis. It is unacceptable. Although this crisis is now occurring from coast to coast to coast, Quebec has historically been spared, to some extent, relative to the western provinces and Ontario. I will get to that. I am not bragging about Quebec, but I think Quebec has been wise and proactive. We did not wait for this to reach national crisis proportions before taking action and creating the 2018-20 national strategy for preventing and responding to opioid overdoses. This strategy was based on compiling reliable data. It talks about science, awareness raising, information, access to integrated and adapted services, and, of course, prevention. For instance, Quebec has been successful in reducing overdose mortality by providing free, universal access to naloxone, an opioid antidote, and ensuring that first responders can administer it to anyone who is, sadly, experiencing an overdose. Quebec has set up supervised injection sites. We in the Bloc Québécois are very much in favour of this. In our view, these sites have myriad benefits, such as the ability to reach vulnerable populations, reduced numbers of overdose deaths, reduced health risks, and better care for drug users. I would like to point out that the Bloc Québécois considers supervised injection sites to be a powerful tool for fighting the opioid crisis. We are asking the federal government not to undermine the rollout of these tools by interfering in Quebec's drug access policies. Quebec currently has the situation under control. Even if Quebec's mortality rate is not what it should be, it is nevertheless lower than in the rest of Canada. I would appreciate it if the federal government would let us work on matters within our jurisdiction. Opioid overdose deaths are common. In the vast majority of cases, the drugs were purchased illegally on the streets, such as fentanyl mixed with heroin. For that reason, the Bloc Québécois is advocating for diversion for simple possession of these drugs, with the support of frontline health care services. In concrete terms, this means that an individual arrested for simple possession of heroin could undergo training, rehabilitation or another appropriate measure in exchange for the charges being dropped. We have to treat these people as what they are: drug addicts, not dangerous criminals. I would like to remind the House that my first degree was in criminology, so I am looking at this debate through that lens. People need opportunities to get treatment for their addiction. They do not need to be sent to crime school. We could kill two birds with one stone because helping drug users recover from addiction would also ease pressure on our legal and prison systems. These people are not criminals; they are addicted to a drug. We must prioritize recovery over punishment. I think everyone here would agree that the opioid crisis is a public health matter, not a criminal matter. If members have any doubts, I want to emphasize that the phrase “public health” is very important in my speech. The Constitution Act, 1867, states that health care is a shared provincial-federal jurisdiction with clearly defined roles. The Constitution states that the provinces are responsible for health care, the practice of medicine, professional training, the regulation of the medical profession, hospital and health insurance, and so on. The provinces are responsible for all of that. It is therefore clear that Quebec is responsible for delivering the vast majority of prevention, treatment and harm reduction programs in a public health crisis such as the opioid crisis. However, the federal government is responsible for funding research, initiatives and pilot projects and promoting awareness. To that end, Quebec and the Bloc Québécois are calling for an annual supplementary health care contribution of 6%, as well as an increase of the federal share from 22% to 35% of Quebec's health care costs, which are directly related to this pandemic. As my colleague from Jonquière said yesterday, the federal government's chronic underfunding of health comes at a cost. There is a price to be paid for pushing health care networks to the limit. Today, Quebeckers are the ones paying the price. I think it is imperative for the Liberal government to take note of this consensus and to sit down with its provincial counterparts to discuss it.

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Mrs. Élisabeth Brière (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and Associate Minister of Health, Lib.)

Feb/8/22 10:33:31 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Mr. Speaker, are we to understand from my colleague's comments that he agrees with Bill C‑5, which seeks to eliminate policies that have filled our prisons with people who needed help and that ultimately targeted vulnerable and racialized Canadians?

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Mr. Luc Desilets

Feb/8/22 10:33:59 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for her question. I completely agree. I am a humanist with a background in criminology. In Quebec and the U.S., half of all inmates are incarcerated on drug charges ranging from possession to trafficking. It is time to shrink the number of these criminals and pseudo-criminals and send them home or help those who really need help and are not criminals.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Feb/8/22 10:34:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague raised a number of important points, including access to naloxone. I would like to hear the Bloc Québécois's opinion on whether companies like Purdue Pharma, the Sackler family and McKinsey, whose products fuelled this crisis, should be held accountable. Does he agree with me that the government should pursue these companies for compensation and use those resources to provide more funding for treatment?

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Mr. Luc Desilets

Feb/8/22 10:35:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, to be honest, I am not sure I understood my colleague's question. If putting more money into either the health care system or the federal system fails to meet the need, we have to change course to get it right. To be honest though, I am not sure I understood my colleague's question, so I am sorry.

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Mr. Yves Perron (Berthier—Maskinongé, BQ)

Feb/8/22 10:36:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, my colleague clearly demonstrated the consensus surrounding the need for diversion. He also made the point that health transfers are primarily the jurisdiction of the provinces and Quebec, but I will not go there. I would like to hear the member's thoughts on a potential connection between social housing and the opioid crisis. What does he think the federal government can do in that regard?

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Mr. Luc Desilets

Feb/8/22 10:36:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. If I had had more time, I would have gratified my colleague, who is the Bloc Québécois point person on social housing, by taking a few minutes to talk about this issue. The Bloc Québécois is calling for 1% of federal revenues to be invested in these programs. This is not without reason. There are huge needs in terms of social housing, but there are clearly some connections to the topic we are debating this evening. What I mean is that there are vulnerable people in need who are struggling with drug addiction and are living on the streets. Some of these people are homeless, some live in social housing, and some are among the least fortunate. This is a priority for the Bloc Québécois. That 1% is important. We are advocating for it now and will continue to do so.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

Feb/8/22 10:37:55 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-216

Mr. Chair, I thank the member for speaking of the compassion we need to show in this crisis. I agree with the member wholeheartedly on the need for increased health care transfers to provinces, and I just wanted to confirm tonight that I think we also agree on decriminalizing those small amounts for personal possession. I just wanted to ask the member this. Will he support the bill, Bill C-216, from my colleague for Courtenay—Alberni to decriminalize simple possession?

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Mr. Luc Desilets

Feb/8/22 10:38:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my esteemed colleague. I did talk about compassion. However, we need more than compassion. My comments this evening were also based on science. Two parties are battling, and they are both in favour of science and all that. My own university studies and training led me to science. They led me to something that is not absolute, but that guides us toward satisfactory answers to the difficulties we are experiencing. We do need to be compassionate, but our actions must be based on facts. There is no justification for jailing people in need. Would we send a chronic alcoholic to prison? Yes, perhaps. If a minor crime were involved, the individual would definitely be sent to prison. We do need to show compassion, but we need to do more than that.

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Ms. Iqra Khalid (Mississauga—Erin Mills, Lib.)

Feb/8/22 10:39:49 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I thank the member for his very impassioned speech. There are a number of different schools of thought about how justice should be conducted and how we should conduct our society. I wonder if the member can share some of his thoughts around how mandatory minimum sentences impact those who are suffering, those who are going through the opioid crisis and are in need of support. Perhaps the member can share his thoughts about mandatory minimum sentences and the role of the justice system, as opposed to the health care system, when we talk about matters like these.

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Mr. Luc Desilets

Feb/8/22 10:40:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, our health care systems in Quebec and in the rest of Canada are unfortunately overloaded for multiple reasons. The opioid crisis is very clearly one factor. If we could have reasonable, sufficient health transfers, in keeping with what Canadians across the country deserve, and bearing in mind that Canadians have asked for a 35% threshold, we would obviously be better equipped to meet peoples' needs and perhaps be more empathetic towards those with these kinds of addiction problems. Once again, they are not criminals at heart.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Feb/8/22 10:41:37 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, I want to follow up to clarify my earlier question, because maybe my French is not as good as I thought it was. The issue that I want to raise and get the member's perspective on is that we know that the opioid crisis was on some accounts started, and was certainly fuelled, by certain companies, such as Purdue Pharma and others that presented misinformation about the risks of addiction and really aggressively over-promoted opioids as being the solution, in many cases, when in fact there was not evidence to suggest it, and there was a lack of acknowledgement of the risks that they should have been, and in many cases were, aware of. Many of those companies have been required to pay compensation in the United States, and that compensation is being used to fund treatment. Purdue, the Sackler family directly, and McKinsey, which advised Purdue, have had to pay, and that has provided some increased resources for treatment. The Canadian government has been far behind in pursuing that kind of compensation and accountability. Does the member's party agree that the government should be doing more to pursue accountability for bad corporate actors, and that maybe this could provide some additional resources that we can use for treatment?

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Mr. Luc Desilets

Feb/8/22 10:42:51 p.m.
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Mr. Chair, this time it is much clearer. I am sorry, the problem may have been my understanding. There is abuse every time there is money in the picture. Pharmaceutical companies have an astonishing ability to target people's weaknesses and needs. To answer my colleague's question, there are certainly justifications to be made. Maybe there will be some with the current COVID‑19 crisis. Maybe some companies took advantage of the price for a dose of one vaccine or another. I believe a responsible government has to respond regularly to all these types of questions, so that we get a clear picture and individuals, parliamentarians or average citizens can make up their own minds.

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The Chair

Feb/8/22 10:44:00 p.m.
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It being 10:44 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 53(1), the committee will rise.

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The Deputy Speaker

Feb/8/22 10:44:25 p.m.
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Accordingly, this House stands adjourned until tomorrow at 2 p.m., pursuant to Standing Order 24(1) (The House adjourned at 10:44 p.m.)

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