(Deputy Chair) in the chair.

[English]

Honourable senators, I know that some people may be coming in late since the Senate adjourned a little bit later today, but that’s fine. We will start the meeting so that we can proceed with all the witnesses in the allotted time.

My name is Jane Cordy. I am a senator from Nova Scotia and the Deputy Chair of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology. I would like to begin by welcoming members of the committee and all the witnesses, as well as members of the public who are watching our proceedings today.

Welcome, also, this afternoon to Senator Ross — one of our new senators who is joining us.

Before we begin, I would like to do a round table and have all of the senators introduce themselves.

[Translation]

Marie-Françoise Mégie from Quebec.

Judith Seidman from Quebec.

[English]

Donna Dasko, Ontario.

[Translation]

Senator Chantal Petitclerc from Quebec. Welcome.

Senator Diane Bellemare from Quebec.

[English]

Marilou McPhedran, Manitoba.

Rosemary Moodie, Ontario.

Gigi Osler, Manitoba.

Sharon Burey, senator for Ontario.

Krista Ross, New Brunswick.

Thank you very much. The introductions are more for the people who are watching us on television and online because we are all very well acquainted with our first witness.

Today, we begin our consideration of Bill S-244, An Act to amend the Department of Employment and Social Development Act and the Employment Insurance Act (Employment Insurance Council). Joining us for our first panel, we welcome the Honourable Senator Diane Bellemare, who is the proud sponsor of this bill. Thank you so much, Senator Bellemare, for joining us today. I will remind you that you have five minutes for your opening statement, which will be followed by questions from our members.

Senator Bellemare, the floor is yours.

Thank you so much, Madam Chair.

Before I start, I just want to thank you for inviting me to appear today as part of the study of Bill S-244. I must admit that it’s the first time that I am on this side, and I am a bit nervous. I hope I will be able to answer your questions as short and sweet as possible.

[Translation]

Bill S-244 amends the Department of Employment and Social Development Act and the Employment Insurance Act (Employment Insurance Council). This bill is the result of a concerted effort by a number of national labour market stakeholders undertaken in 2019. The bill is also supported by the current commissioners of workers and employers, both of whom actively participated in the discussions leading to the development of this bill.

More specifically, the following organizations worked together, either in a hybridized manner or in person: the Canadian Labour Congress; the Fédération des travailleurs et travailleuses du Québec, or FTQ; the Confédération des syndicats nationaux, or CSN; Unifor; Canada’s Building Trades Unions; the Canadian Chamber of Commerce; the Fédération des chambres de commerce du Québec; the Conseil du patronat du Québec; the Canadian Federation of Independent Business; and the Alliance of Manufacturers and Exporters Canada. We had a great group of pan-Canadian labour market organizations.

What is the purpose of this bill? The main purpose of the bill is to strengthen social dialogue within the Canada Employment Insurance Commission by creating an advisory council to the current commission. That council will provide advice to the commission with a single voice. The current structure is based primarily on consultation, whereby a variety of viewpoints are heard. Whereas here, we want instead to establish an advisory council of management and labour, including businesses and workers, to give advice with a single voice.

This bill proposes to create, in federal legislation, a council to provide advice to the Canada Employment Insurance Commission. It doesn’t change the powers of the commission — it doesn’t change the way it currently operates — it’s an addition. However, in the bill, we’ve also grouped the various mandates of the current commission under a single chapter. Right now, it’s all scattered throughout the legislation. We are adding that and creating the advisory council.

This new council would be co-chaired by commissioners for workers and employers. It would be made up of an equal number of worker and company representatives. It’s a 12-person advisory council: There would be two co-chairpersons, five members representing labour organizations and five members representing businesses.

This bill has no budgetary implications, since the commissioners are already there and the people involved are paid in their own role. This bill is really the fruit of an exercise in social dialogue among the current partners.

Concretely, what are the proposed changes? The Canada Employment Insurance Commission is currently made up of four members: the commission’s chairperson and vice-chairperson, who are respectively the department’s deputy minister and senior associate deputy minister, representing the government’s interests. The vice-chairperson has the right to vote only when the chairperson is absent. The other two members are the commissioner for workers and the commissioner for employers, whom you’ll hear from later today.

The commission is very small at the moment. The bill, as proposed, makes no changes to the composition of the commission, but creates a new council that formalizes the structure for social dialogue and consultation on the labour market.

There will also be observer members on this commission. Observer members —

[English]

Yes, thank you, senator.

I can answer questions now.

Thank you very much for your remarks, Senator Bellemare. We’ll proceed to questions from senators. For today’s meeting, questions and answers will be three minutes altogether, so please keep your questions succinct. We were a little bit late starting, and we have a pretty strict timeline in terms of finishing up the meeting.

Thank you, Senator Bellemare, for being with us to explain this piece of legislation.

In your second-reading speech, you said that the commission failed in its role during the pandemic, and that was the inspiration for this piece of legislation. You said that this reform is needed, and the effectiveness of the changes will depend upon the stakeholders’ participation in defining and implementing these changes.

As you know, we like to measure effectiveness. How would you do that? How would you evaluate that effectiveness?

It’s hard to have a statistical measure, but a lot of studies have been done on the international side, such as from the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development, or OECD. The International Labour Organization, or ILO, did a lot of studies on that. There are also academic studies that compared countries that have such boards with countries that do not.

In fact, what we’re proposing is aligned with the recommendation in the ILO Conventions. It’s hard to measure the efficiency of it, but when you apply it and do it, it favours consensus, the determination of policies that are accepted on both sides and the implementation of those policies.

I did a lot of studies on the subject in a book that I wrote a long time ago. I visited countries that do have those kinds of boards: Sweden, Norway, Germany and Austria. I was accompanied by an employer, a union person and a government person. Everyone could see how important it is to have these kinds of boards.

How do these countries measure the impacts of having this kind of council, or have they?