(Chair) in the chair.

[Translation]

Honourable senators, before we begin the meeting, I would ask the senators to introduce themselves, starting on my left.

[English]

Scott Tannas, Alberta.

Senator Bev Busson from British Columbia.

[Translation]

Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu, La Salle, Quebec.

Pierre J. Dalphond, De Lorimier, Quebec.

[English]

Senator Paula Simons, Alberta Treaty 6 territory.

[Translation]

Éric Forest, Gulf region, Quebec.

[English]

David Arnot from Saskatchewan.

Dennis Patterson, Nunavut.

Brent Cotter, senator for Saskatchewan and the chair of the committee. I would like to welcome everybody.

Senators, today we continue our study of Bill S-12, An Act to amend the Criminal Code, the Sex Offender Information Registration Act and the International Transfer of Offenders Act. We have with us today the sponsor of the bill, Senator Busson.

For our first panel today we welcome, from the Royal Canadian Mounted Police, Mark Penney, Acting Executive Director of Technical Operations; and Alain Gagnon, Non-Commissioned Officer in charge, National Sex Offender Registry and High-Risk Sex Offender Program. They are joining us in person. Thank you, gentlemen.

And from the Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police, Francis Lanouette, Chief, joining us by video conference. Thank you for joining us, chief.

As we normally do, we will invite each group to present for approximately five minutes, followed by questions and discussions with senators. From the RCMP, gentlemen, take it away.

[Translation]

Hello, Mr. Chair and members of the committee. I am joined today by Staff Sergeant Alain Gagnon, Non-Commissioned Officer in charge of the National Sex Offender Registry, RCMP. We are pleased to be with you today to assist you in your study of Bill S-12.

[English]

Since 2004, the Sex Offender Information Registration Act, which I will refer to in short as SOIRA, and the National Sex Offender Registry, or NSOR, represent vital complementary components of Canada’s response to crimes of a sexual nature, the protection of children and adults and the safeguarding of our communities.

As part of these efforts, the RCMP is responsible for the management of NSOR, the national registration system for sex offenders who have been convicted of designated sex offences and ordered by the courts to report annually to police among other obligations. NSOR helps police prevent and investigate crimes of a sexual nature by providing up-to-date information relating to convicted sex offenders and also provides an instant list of sex offenders who are registered and living within a particular geographic area.

The access to information housed within the NSOR is highly restricted. Only police agencies can access NSOR through the Sex Offender Registry Centre in their province or territory. The centres are responsible for offender compliance and for the administrative aspect of the database. The public does not have access to information contained in NSOR.

Police agencies use the information in NSOR for police purposes as authorized by law. International police agencies may also be provided with information from the database but only if this information sharing meets specific criteria outlined in SOIRA. Under the act, the RCMP may only share NSOR information when necessary to prevent or investigate a crime of a sexual nature. Any departure from this threshold would present a substantial risk of non-compliance under the act, including potential legal ramifications for RCMP employees, as it is a summary offence under the act to make an unauthorized disclosure.

The RCMP supports Bill S-12’s proposed amendments, including those concerning SOIRA. In particular, Bill S-12’s proposal to require a sex offender to provide 14 days advance notice prior to travel would allow the RCMP the time required to ensure that a thorough risk assessment can be completed prior to the offender’s travel within or outside of Canada. As well, offenders would be required to report every address at which they will be staying during their travels. This would allow for more effective and efficient location of registrants if and as needed.

Mr. Chair and members of the committee, thank you for the opportunity to be with you today. We welcome your questions.

Thank you, Mr. Penney. Chief Lanouette?

[Translation]

Hello and thank you for this opportunity to address the committee on Bill S-12.

The Canadian Association of Chiefs of Police (CACP) is generally supportive of this bill, which focuses primarily on the notions of automatic and lifetime registration in the National Sex Offender Registry. We recognize the challenge of striking a balance between individual rights and the collective good.

The CACP is reassured to see that Bill S-12 maintains the presumption of automatic registration in this registry. For us, this is an essential element. In our opinion, the proposed legislative amendments recognize the rights of victims, promote public safety, and respect the rights of the accused.

We support the proposal to reverse the onus of proof, giving convicted offenders the opportunity to convince the judge at sentencing that registration in the registry is unnecessary.

We favour maintaining registration in the registry after the person has served his or her sentence unless he or she can demonstrate to the judge that its effects on him or her would be totally disproportionate.

Bill S-12 also recognizes the rehabilitative potential of certain offenders by ending lifetime registration if the person is able to convince the authorities that he or she poses no risk of reoffending.

However, in the interest of public safety, it is essential to impose automatic registration for offences of a sexual nature committed against minors, and to impose lifetime registration in cases where a person is convicted of committing more than one offence of a sexual nature.

We welcome the addition of factors to be considered by judges when exercising their discretionary power; in particular, the victim’s age and personal characteristics. We believe that this element addresses a need to protect the most vulnerable members of our society, such as minors, victims of intimate partner violence, people with disabilities, the frail elderly, and so forth.

In this regard, we note and support the increase in the maximum sentence for the offence of sexual exploitation of a person with a disability. We also welcome the addition of certain designated offences, including the offence of non-consensual dissemination of intimate images.

We would like to emphasize that the National Sex Offender Registry is an invaluable tool and source of information to support police investigations. From an operational standpoint, we invite the committee to consider three legislative amendments to the Sex Offender Information Registration Act that could have a significant impact on police investigations: first, amend section 4.1 (1) to include the obligation to report any change in the vehicles used by the offender within seven days of the change, immediately upon registration in the registry and at any time between the annual reports that are currently mandatory.

Second, amend section 5(3) to eliminate any ambiguity in authorizing the police to take all necessary photographs of the offender and any physical characteristics, observable or not, such as tattoos, scars, marks or deformities, in order to facilitate identification of the offender.

Third, amend subsection 16(4) to add the power to disclose to a witness or victim involved in the investigation of a crime of a sexual nature photographs obtained from the registry database for the purpose of identifying a suspect.

In conclusion, the CACP believes that Bill S-12 proposes a decision-making and review process that aligns registration and duration of registration with the severity of the offence.

The mission of police services is to prevent crime and track down its perpetrators. We believe that this bill contributes to achieving this mission. As a result, we are in a position to use our resources appropriately to offer our populations safe living environments, while protecting the most vulnerable members of our society. Thank you.

[English]

Thank you, gentlemen.

We are not used to the presenters using less than their full time. Thank you for your precise, direct and clear presentations to us. We now turn to a list of senators who have questions for you, beginning with the deputy chair of the committee, Senator Boisvenu.

[Translation]

Welcome to our witnesses. My first question is for the officials from the RCMP. The first National Sex Offender Registry dates back to 2004. The act was amended in 2009-2019. I was there.

The troubling finding at the time was that the percentage of registrations left to the discretion of judges varied from province to province. In the Maritimes, it was about 30%, about 50% in Quebec, and close to 70% in western Canada. That is why the government of the day decided to make changes to the registry to include more offenders because we were missing about 50% of them in Canada.

Will this bill, which is very close to the 2004 legislation, lead to a similar situation in which the percentage could vary from province to province?

Thank you for the question.

[English]

We certainly cannot predict Bill S-12 — if it is to pass, to come into force — what the ramifications will be. However, the RCMP are of the position that we are fully supportive of Bill S-12, and what we’re seeing will definitely make improvements to some challenges that we see today with NSOR.

As far as the potential effectiveness or policy alternatives to the changes between the 2004 legislation and the current bill, we would defer to our colleagues at Public Safety Canada and Justice Canada.

[Translation]

I will defer to my colleague, Staff Sergeant Gagnon, who has worked intimately with the system for the past five years and can certainly speak to its effectiveness around day-to-day police enforcement actions. Thank you.

My question is as follows. The bill we are considering is very similar to the 2004 legislation. The percentage of registrations varied from one province to another, which made the registry nearly useless in practical terms in certain regions where one in three predators was registered, while in other provinces one in two or two in three predators were registered.

Might we end up in the same situation in five years, with the percentage of registrations varying from province to province, depending on the leniency of judges? Judges are more lenient in Quebec, whereas they are stricter in western Canada. Will we find ourselves in the same situation?

[English]

Thank you for the question and clarification. Again, I do not think that we can predict what judges will decide or what prosecution services will provide. As our colleagues at Justice Canada have said, there is a goal to provide clarification and training around what is being proposed in Bill S-12, around the presumption of a registration in the NSOR. It will remain to be seen how things will play out. Unfortunately, I cannot predict what the changes will be.

[Translation]

My question is for Mr. Lanouette. Mandatory registration for offences involving children will be exclusively for cases in which the sentence is more than two years. In Quebec, there are four times as many sexual predators in provincial jails as compared to federal penitentiaries.

In view of the registration of sexual predators who have committed an offence involving a child and who receive a sentence of more than two years... Is there a risk that a lot of offenders will be left out?