Hon. Pamela Wallin: Honourable senators, as I was saying, Bill C-21 does not meaningfully address the root causes of gun violence — the illegal drug trade, drug addiction, illegal smuggling, gang violence. Again, I will quote the words of Saskatchewan’s Chief Firearms Officer, who says:

If you . . . look at the firearms they have seized and used in crime . . . they aren’t finding these assault style firearms. They aren’t being used. It’s a great optic, they look scary, but every firearm can look scary . . . it’s really the end use.

When we look at the American news . . . they have no regulations, they have no vetting, they have no education programs, they have no safe storage requirements, those firearms aren’t registered. It’s an entirely different paradigm.

The government often uses the U.S. events and their lack of rules to make a case for Canadian law, to shore up their own base, to look tough on crime for urban voters.

But these moves sometimes backfire. The plan to freeze handgun sales in fact triggered a buying frenzy. And many handguns have gone underground, family-owned handguns, because it’s so complicated to transfer to a son or a daughter. Of course, in the end, it will shutter hundreds of small businesses across this country that employ thousands of people selling legal guns to sane, non-criminal buyers.

This bill could also set a precedent for further bans and confiscations that the government may deem necessary for, in their words, “greater good, safety, and well-being of citizens.” It is a bit of a slippery slope.

This legislation, sadly, has little to do with saving innocent lives. The bill puts hunters, collectors and sports shooters in the crosshairs, but not the criminals.

And let’s not forget that an important but always forgotten effect of this bill might actually have to do with the cost of living. Many Canadians could use a gun to go hunting. As the cost of putting food on the table skyrockets, a deer or a moose in the deep-freeze can make a real difference. And killing the coyote that’s killing your cattle saves money and also puts food on the table.

But such practical thinking is just not part of the mindset here in the halls of Parliament. Let’s hope that we can ensure that we look at all aspects of this bill, the potential collateral damage for businesses and hunters, including Indigenous hunters with the traditional and treaty right to do so.

Consider the impact on families. Treat addictions that lead to crime. Enforce the full measure of the law on those who commit crimes with guns. Don’t defund the police or underfund the firearms officers. Support their good work and support legal gun ownership. And throw the book at the bad guys.

The House of Commons had a duty and a responsibility to create a better piece of legislation, and it failed. So it now falls to us. Let’s actually try to make sure Bill C-21 does something to make the country safer. Let’s also make sure that our laws respect the rights of law-abiding citizens. Thank you.

Senator Wallin: This is absolutely something that we should do. I live in a rural community filled with farmers. I have this discussion on a daily basis. They bring me their bills with the costs to dry their grain and heat their barns; it is quite staggering. We all think about it in terms of what it means when we go to the pumps to fill up, and the gas is slightly more expensive, and then the home heating bill comes — it is impacting everybody, of course. However, they have such a crucial role in our economy. You heard the numbers in terms of the contribution to the Saskatchewan economy, and that filters out. We have farmers everywhere across this country — producers of all kinds, ranchers, fruit farmers and the whole list.

Yes, I think this is crucial — the food inflation issue is huge, and the increases are massive. I was listening to a Saskatchewan farmer on an open-line radio show, and he said that while he was growing up, he was told that it was their job to feed the world — and that’s what they did. They called themselves “the breadbasket of the world.” This has all been exacerbated because of what is happening in Ukraine. They supply a lot of food, which they will not be able to do now. It is even more incumbent on us to try to fill that gap. The Saskatchewan farmer was wistful as he spoke, and he said, “This is what I was taught. I’m a farmer’s son, I’m a farmer and my son will be a farmer. It is my job to feed the world. Please just let me do my job.” That’s how he put it. It was quite powerful because that’s all they are asking to do.

(On motion of Senator Dalphond, debate adjourned.)

Senator Wallin: This is the concern: Without understanding how this might be enforced or put into place, it leaves a lot of questions. If you establish a target for francophone immigration — regardless of the country, or the needs they may or may not be meeting in other parts of the country — how would you establish a target for bringing francophone immigrants into the province of Saskatchewan? How would you decide that? How would you assess that? How would you enforce that?

Senator Wallin: I did just ask it.

Senator Cotter: I think I got a question out of that, Senator Wallin. Thank you.

You chose an extremely good example. My sense of the fertilizer reduction issue is that Ottawa didn’t know enough when it came forward with that proposal. Dialogue would improve that. Federal programs are being developed and will get rolled out. We have to do everything we can to ensure those programs are responsive to what farmers, small business people and the resource industry really need and can move forward with.

I worry about the situation where nobody will talk to them, Ottawa does something, and then the people who wouldn’t talk to them say, “You did the wrong thing.” With the greatest of respect, that’s not the best way to build a country; rather, it’s Ottawa consulting and the recipient consultees genuinely sharing their views so that the programs can be constructed and adapted to the best possible set of goals.

Senator D. Patterson: Senator Cotter, I think you’ve discerned that I’m concerned about the process and ensuring this important bill gets the scrutiny it deserves.

As you know, the Province of Alberta was in the middle of a leadership vote when the bill was considered at committee in the other place, so the committee did not hear from one of the three Prairie provinces. I’m sure you will be following the process of the bill and perhaps participating in committee as sponsor. If an important issue is raised in committee, as sponsor, are you open to considering amendments to this bill?

Senator Cotter: I don’t have a definitive answer to that. I have received advice that, because of Mr. Carr’s passing, if the bill does get amended, it would create real problems on its return to the other place. As you know, I’m a 30 handicap in terms of the rules of this place and the other place. But if you were to say to me, “Senator Cotter, are you open to an amendment that would jeopardize the bill?” I would be very reluctant to that.

I think the point would be that if this bill has defects and someone has a brilliant idea about how to make it better, I’m open to that. I’m not willing to make a commitment as sponsor. And it’s not solely my decision, as you can understand; the committee will decide.

Hon. Pamela Wallin: Minister, in September, 11 people were murdered during a stabbing rampage at James Smith Cree Nation in Saskatchewan. We know of your government’s recent pledge of $40 million for the First Nation, but we also know that the issue is that there simply aren’t enough police officers to respond to crimes in progress or emergencies in a timely way in rural areas. When a citizen calls the RCMP, they are often told just to stay inside and lock their doors because they can’t get there.

Will your government commit, minister, to allocating serious new funding for training, recruitment and resources for the RCMP for officers for all rural areas of Saskatchewan and rural Canada? After all, safety and security are key economic determinants.