Hon. Donna Dasko: Would Senator Dawson take another question?

Senator Dawson: Yes, madam.

Senator Dasko: Will you take a supplementary question, senator?

Senator Dawson: Yes, Senator Dasko.

Senator Dasko: Thank you. Senator Dawson, listening to your presentation, I think I heard one mention of the principle of representation by population. I wonder whether that principle is becoming eroded more and more. My province of Ontario is under-represented in terms of seats. If I do the math on the total number of seats that you have, 343, the province of Ontario should be getting 137 seats out of this, given that we have 40% of the population.

But how many seats are we actually getting under this? Is it 122? We currently have 121. If you do the math and add 1, it’s 122. To me, that shows clearly that there is not representation by population. Perhaps we’re moving even further away from this principle, and I worry about that.

We in the Senate know that we are unequally — or some might say unfairly — represented. Ontario only has 24 seats; it should have something like 42, proportionally speaking, but it doesn’t. But that’s the Senate; the House of Commons is supposed to employ representation by population.

Are you worried that we are moving further away from the principle as we go forward in time? Thank you.

Senator Dawson: As I mentioned to your colleague, I totally agree. I think this issue should be looked into. One of the reasons there is a commission is so that we don’t get into political constraints of having parliamentarians from each province fundamentally wanting to defend their rights. But when we talk about grandfathering the Maritimes and Quebec, it means there is an inherent imbalance in the system.

That being said, there is certainly a lot of room to have a debate on the issue. Unfortunately, this is not the issue that is being debated here today. We do not interfere in the process of determination. What we are doing is determining that there is minimum representation, as we did many times in the past when we grandfathered Prince Edward Island with the four senators and when we grandfathered the Maritimes in 2010 or 2011.

This is a subject that deserves to be debated, but I think that is not the objective of the bill. One of the reasons they drafted it as simply as they could is that if we want to get into that debate, we all know that reform of Parliament will take a bit longer than reform of one more seat for Quebec.

Senator Dasko: Thank you, senator. I understand the grandfathering. As you articulated, there are principles of grandfathering in the bill and in the way we distribute seats. However, the solution to grandfathering would be to increase the size of the House of Commons such that we could accommodate fairly the provinces that are larger and that are not fairly represented. Those provinces would be Ontario, Alberta and British Columbia. That would be the solution if we’re truly moving toward — or if we had — a representation-by-population system. That is what we would be doing. I wonder if you could comment on that.

Senator Dawson: I think the Speaker pro tempore could tell you, having served in the other place, that this debate occurs every time we talk about the electoral map and its challenges.

Sometimes I repeat myself. When I arrived here 45 years ago this month, there were 285 seats. If we had grown Parliament at the same rate that Canada grew, we would probably have 375 seats. However, one of the decisions that was taken was that if you try to moderate, the distinction between the bigger provinces and the smaller provinces would only grow. Again, it is not the objective of the bill, but I would certainly support any motion in that respect. However, we don’t play that game. They’re playing it over there.

If the elected parliamentarians wanted to change the electoral system for their chamber, I would let them do it, and I would hope they will let us do the same when we want to reform things here.

Hon. Donna Dasko: Senator, will you take another question?

Senator Yussuff: Yes.

Senator Dasko: Thank you very much for taking on the sponsorship of this bill. This is a very important bill, requiring 10 paid sick leave days for federally regulated workers. It’s especially important now with the new COVID variant that we have been confronted with. It is very important that the federal government has taken a leadership role in this area.

As a member of the Standing Senate Committee on Social Affairs, Science and Technology, a number of issues were raised which you referred to in your speech. One of them is an issue that I have just a little bit of confusion on, and that is the coming into force of this law. It was raised at our committee. I’m left with a little bit of confusion about it. At one point there was a suggestion that, in fact, it wouldn’t come into force until negotiations were done, and this didn’t seem to be quite right. I don’t know if there is any truth to this.

Obviously, negotiations with the provinces are going to be difficult, because I can name at least one province, the one where I live, where I think there will be a lot of kicking and screaming before they move in the same direction as the federal government.

My question is: Can you provide some clarity to the issue of the coming into force of the bill and of the law, this being especially important now in terms of paid sick leave given the new COVID situation that we are in?

Senator Yussuff: Thank you, senator, for your question.

In regard to the implementation of this bill, the federal government does not require provincial consent, of course, to implement the law.

There is a need to bring some regulatory regime that will complement the implementation of the law, and there is a process for doing so. In doing that, regulations have to be gazetted. The government can pass an order-in-council to move that process along much quicker than the traditional way, which will take about 90 days.

There has been discussion with a recognition that the federal government will need to consult with employers, unions and others with regard to the implementation. I believe that can be done in a very short time. This legislation can be enforced and be taken advantage of by workers in the federal jurisdiction certainly within the next 60 days, as we will be in this position. It is my hope that the minister and his staff will work diligently during the holidays to try to accomplish that. There is a mechanism. I know from my past that there are ways for the government to do so, if they desire.

With regard to the negotiation with the province, you are right to acknowledge this reality; I don’t think the province will simply come to the table and say, “Thank you very much, we’ll do what you ask us to do.” It has never worked that way. I don’t think it will work that day on this bill.

I think there is a lot of goodwill to recognize that workers at the provincial jurisdiction equally, as they have been in the federal jurisdiction, are the ones who have kept this economy going. Those workers deserve the recognition that, when they get sick, they should not have to lose pay to go to work. It is a way to fight the pandemic. It is a way to win this fight against the pandemic. It is also a way to send a message to those workers that what they are doing to keep this country going matters, and we are going to have their backs.

I hope that our provincial leaders will listen to the advice of the federal government, and take some leadership from them as to how they can work together to achieve the greater good of Canadians right across this country.