- Member of Parliament
- Liberal
- Scarborough—Guildwood
- Ontario
- Voting Attendance: 62%
- Expenses Last Quarter: $111,926.23
- Government Page
- Jun/1/22 9:55:28 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to share an experience with the hon. member about NATO. I was travelling with John Manley, the then foreign affairs minister. Our itinerary was London, Paris, Riga and Berlin. When we were in Riga, the President of Latvia came into the room and she harangued John and me for 20 minutes about getting into NATO. This was in September 2001. She did not want anything else. She just wanted into NATO, because she saw NATO as her best security guarantee against the Russians. We went to Germany and, to John's credit, he put the Latvian question to the Germans. They had the same question: “What about the Russians?”
Is the hon. member prepared to assert her judgment about the utility of NATO against the President of Latvia's judgment about the utility of NATO?
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- Jun/1/22 9:44:43 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is always the youth who pay the price for wars. Most of the generals are older and the people who are getting killed are frequently younger people. Boy, that was blindingly obvious in the prison in Vilnius, but also in the member's experience as well.
On peace, order and good government, I do not know where we are on that. It is a worthwhile initiative. One cannot separate diplomacy, aid and military abilities. It needs to be a team Canada approach in all matters. I would like to think we are making some progress on that, but I do not always know that we are.
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- Jun/1/22 9:43:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague is right. It is not a particularly attractive building, but I was not going to use the word “ugly”.
She is also right in the sense that we are not listening. We did not listen in 2008. We did not listen in 2014, and we have been slow to listen in 2022. It is not as if Vladimir Putin does not signal what he is going to do. He tells us what he is going to do. It is blindingly obvious that, if he is successful in Ukraine, then the Baltic nations are next.
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- Jun/1/22 9:41:00 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I consider myself a friend of the Hon. Andrew Leslie, whose service to the nation is well respected.
In some respects, as my speech indicated, we do not get the seriousness of the threat that Putin-ism presents to us. Ukrainians are fighting for us as well as for their nation. Where we need to get our act together is in supporting them in a real and material way. I like to think, and I take note, and maybe the hon. member would not appreciate it, but the Ukrainian defence minister, in his presentation, noted Canada's defence minister and appreciated her contributions to the fight.
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- Jun/1/22 9:29:19 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is an honour and a pleasure to participate in this debate.
I will be splitting my time with the member for Saanich—Gulf Islands. I am not quite sure how that got in there, but my colleague from Saanich—Gulf Islands and I are apparently splitting this time, and I am honoured to do so.
As members have heard, a number of us travelled to Vilnius, Lithuania, in the past few days to participate in the parliamentary NATO conference. It was truly one of those extraordinary experiences, which I had the honour of sharing with the members for Saint-Jean, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, North Island—Powell River and Dartmouth—Cole Harbour, as well as Senator Cordy and Senator Bellemare.
As the member for North Island—Powell River indicated, it is an important element of our responsibilities to participate in these meetings, which extend parliamentary diplomacy and extend our values as Canadians as we try to wrestle with some of the most intractable issues in global politics.
When one lands in Vilnius and comes out of the airport, one sees a country that is sort of emerging from Soviet occupation. Some of the buildings are extraordinarily beautiful. Some are clearly classic, and others are this brutal Soviet architecture, which is just kind of falling down. When one gets to the hotel, one is in a revitalized area of the city, and as one emerges from the hotel, one is confronted with the history of the Baltics, the history of Lithuania. As one walks out of the hotel and goes to the main street, on the left are the parliamentary buildings, about three blocks away, where the issues are debated, which is essentially where we were for the three or four days that we were in Vilnius.
I must say that the presentations were absolutely extraordinary. They were pointed, detailed, very useful and very united. Interestingly, one of the speakers there was the defence minister from Ukraine, and, today, he received a threat of assassination. Nothing focuses the mind like that. However, this was the kind of atmosphere in which we spent, peripherally I would say, three or four days.
From the hotel, if one goes left, there are the parliamentary buildings, and if one goes right, about the same distance, three blocks, one gets to the Vilnius version of Lubyanka, which is where the Russians tortured and killed political prisoners. This one in Vilnius is now a museum to the genocide of the Soviet occupation. Our delegation did not have time to tour what has been turned into a museum of genocide, but as I walked down the sidewalk, in this beautiful, old town of the city, with a gorgeous park right across the street, I saw inscribed on the walls of this prison the names of the people who had been tortured and killed in that building.
What is even more extraordinary, when we read the birth dates and the death dates, is that these people were 23, 25, and occasionally 40 years old. Sometimes they were 21 years old, and sometimes they were even a teenager. Their lives were cut off at the beginning of their aspirations to live a full human life. The reality of these brutal occupations of the Baltic nations over the course of history just descends on us. This is where history and geopolitics merge.
The Baltic nations, whether Estonia, Latvia or Lithuania, have always been the highways to Hell, and whether it was German or Soviet occupations, they have been occupied. Lithuania has actually enjoyed relatively few years of independence, so for the average citizen of Lithuania, this is is not an abstraction. It is not an academic discussion at Carleton University or the University of Ottawa political science department. This is reality for these folks, so when we talk about Finland or Sweden joining NATO, that means something, and that is a real security guarantee that, up to now, they have not enjoyed.
They are afraid, and for a darned good reason, of the Baltic Sea turning into a Russian lake because they would then be threatened not only from land borders, but also from the Baltic Sea, much like the Black Sea, which Putin is attempting to turn into a Russian lake. The joining of Sweden and Finland to the NATO alliance puts that whole enterprise in an entirely different light, and it enables citizens in countries such as Lithuania, Latvia and Estonia some measure of guarantee, which we, as Canadian citizens and North Americans, do not even understand. We do not get it.
For the Europeans, World War III has already started. They understand Bucha in a way that we do not understand it, because Bucha is on the main street to Vilnius. It is memorialized in the lives and deaths of those young Lithuanians, so we are, respectfully, quite naive about what this actually means.
My colleagues and I had some extraordinary experiences, but the one experience that really stayed with me was supper with the committee chairs of the Polish parliament, the German parliament, the Lithuanian parliament and a young Ukrainian MP who reminded me, frankly, of my daughter. I asked her how she was coping with this, and she said she was frozen inside because she had lost family and colleagues. She understood this in a visceral way that none of the rest of us do. The other experience that really hit on me was what the rest of us experienced, which was a young Ukrainian MP calling into the conference who had only five minutes. As she spoke, she said that her signal had been tracked and she needed to hang up the phone, and she went to the bomb shelter.
That is reality in the Baltic nations and Ukraine. I wish I could convey that to my colleagues and our nation.
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- Jun/1/22 9:24:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member and I were on the same trip, as were the members for St. John's East and Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, and I thought that I would like her to comment on the fact that the people of Lithuania raised $5 million in the course of three days to buy a drone.
What does that mean in terms of their response to this brutal invasion by Vladimir Putin into Ukraine?
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