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Decentralized Democracy

House Committee

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 27, 2023
The Chair (Mr. Joël Lightbound (Louis-Hébert, Lib.))
  • 03:43:58 p.m.
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I call this meeting to order. Welcome, everyone, and welcome to meeting No. 64 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Industry and Technology. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, November 30, 2022, we are studying Bill C‑288, An Act to amend the Telecommunications Act (transparent and accurate broadband services information). Today’s meeting is taking place in a hybrid format, pursuant to the House Order of Thursday, June 23, 2022. We welcome Mr. Andre Arbour, director general of Industry Canada's Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, as a witness to answer questions that may arise as we proceed with clause-by-clause consideration of the bill. I thank him for being with us. Let's proceed without further ado with clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C‑288. We will then move on to study Bill C‑294. I will start by clarifying that, pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), study of the preamble is deferred to the end of clause-by-clause consideration. (Clause 1) We are now reviewing Clause 1 and amendment CPC‑1. Who will move this amendment? Go ahead, Mr. Perkins.
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Mr. Rick Perkins (South Shore—St. Margarets, CPC)
  • 03:45:41 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll introduce it. It's been circulated, I believe. The purpose of this amendment to the bill is just to create—as we heard from, I think, four witnesses during the testimonies—a monitoring mechanism or requirement within the bill. I don't know if the bill's author has anything else to add.
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Mr. Dan Mazier (Dauphin—Swan River—Neepawa, CPC)
  • 03:46:10 p.m.
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Yes. It's that during the process, when the CRTC actually has hearings, it's about how it's going to enforce this legislation when it will be enacted. It's just to ensure that there is a conversation about it during the hearings.
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The Chair
  • 03:46:25 p.m.
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Mr. Lemire, you have the floor.
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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)
  • 03:46:41 p.m.
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I'd like to ask Mr. Arbor about the impact such an amendment would have on the bill.
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Mr. Andre Arbour (Director General, Telecommunications and Internet Policy Branch, Department of Industry)
  • 03:47:04 p.m.
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Thank you for the question. I do not foresee significant impacts on industry, because the consultations include measures to strike an appropriate balance for industry. Furthermore, the order published in February by the government regarding telecommunications policy renewal outlined various requirements.
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The Chair
  • 03:47:55 p.m.
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Thank you very much, Mr. Arbour and Mr. Lemire. Is there unanimous consent to pass amendment CPC‑1? Some hon. members: Agreed. (Amendment agreed to. [See Minutes of Proceedings]) (Clause 1 as amended agreed to. [See Minutes of Proceedings])
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The Chair
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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We are now on the preamble. Shall it carry? Some hon. members: Agreed.
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The Chair
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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Shall the title carry? Some hon. members: Agreed.
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The Chair
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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Shall the bill as amended carry? Some hon. members: Agreed.
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The Chair
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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Shall the committee order me to report the bill as amended back to the House? Some hon. members: Agreed.
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The Chair
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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Shall the committee order the reprinting of the bill as amended for the use of the House during report stage? Some hon. members: Agreed.
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The Chair
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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This concludes clause-by-clause study of Bill C‑288. Congratulations, Mr. Mazier. Mr. Masse, you have the floor.
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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)
  • 03:49:04 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair. I want to congratulate the member, who is here today, and his work as well in the committee. I've been here for a while, and getting private members’ business through is not always the easiest thing. Not only is this a good effort in terms of bipartisanship; it's a good issue. I want to congratulate the member for working so co-operatively with the committee. Thank you for leading us through this and getting a bill to the House. Hopefully, the government will adopt it and put this in order once it's passed the Senate.
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The Chair
  • 03:49:28 p.m.
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Yes. Congratulations to Mr. Mazier, and thank you to all for your collaboration. Good work. I will briefly suspend so that we can get to Bill C-294.
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The Chair
  • 03:52:17 p.m.
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We are now proceeding with clause-by-clause study of Bill C‑294, An Act to amend the Copyright Act (interoperability). With us again are Mr. Patrick Blanar, director of the Department of Industry's Copyright and Trademark Policy Directorate. With him is Mr. Pierre-Luc Racine, policy advisor within the same department. They are now true committee regulars. We thank them very much for being with us today. (Clause 1) We will start right away with clause 1 of the bill. There is an amendment on the table, amendment G‑1, for which I will give the floor to Mr. Fillmore.
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Mr. Andy Fillmore (Halifax, Lib.)
  • 03:53:13 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair. I'll try to set the stage for this amendment so that we're all starting on the same page. Then, after Mr. Perkins has a word, perhaps we can invite Mr. Blanar and Mr. Racine to elaborate if there are further questions. The gist of this is that I've been spending quite a bit of time with Mr. Perkins and Mr. Patzer, and I think we've covered a lot of ground. I think we've gotten very close to agreement. I don't think we're 100% there yet. I hope we get there after the next hour or so. The government has one amendment, G-1, which we think is important to make sure that Mr. Patzer's intention is achieved, because as the bill is written right now, we think there's a weakness. It's one amendment in five parts. Parts 2 to 5 are dependent on part 1 passing the committee. My impression, although I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth, is that I think there's agreement with the opposition parties, at least with the Conservative Party, on parts 2 to 5, if I'm understanding our conversations correctly. It's really the first part we need to explore to get some more comfort for Messrs. Patzer and Perkins, so when you're ready, Chair, I'd like to invite Mr. Blanar to elaborate on why that's important to achieve Mr. Patzer's intention. Thank you.
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The Chair
  • 03:54:51 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Fillmore. I'm sure we'll have the opportunity. I'll turn to Mr. Perkins, who has asked for the floor.
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Mr. Rick Perkins
  • 03:54:58 p.m.
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Thanks. Mr. Fillmore, that was a good summary of where we are. I think some of the members have a few questions that maybe could go to the officials, but you're right that our main concern is around new proposed paragraph 41.12(1)(b). We have some questions about some of the others, but the main one is around paragraph (b) and the feeling that two things are sort of lost, perhaps, if I have it right, in the amendment. One is that the bill itself was very specific in choosing the term “manufactures”. It was for a reason. To my understanding, “manufactures” has a very specific meaning and definition in terms of a group or an activity under law. The loss of that to a more general term in new proposed paragraph 41.12(1)(b) is a question. I guess the second part is the term “lawfully obtained”. That can cause a bit of a challenge in some of the circumstances when somebody is assembling something. It's a question of.... I assume that “lawfully obtained” means the licence, basically, or who owns the licence. The original manufacturer of a small piece and, say, the end buyer at retail ultimately own some element of a licence, but there can be an assembly manufacturer in the middle who doesn't actually own the licence in that process and needs to be able to make the pieces talk together, if I've captured it right. I wonder if you could answer those two questions, dealing first with new proposed paragraph 41.12(1)(b).
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The Chair
  • 03:56:57 p.m.
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Mr. Blanar, you seem to want to speak.
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