The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Hon. Marilou McPhedran: I shall be very brief. I want to speak in support of the concerns that have been set out very well today by Senator McCallum. She certainly speaks for me in the comments that she made.

I would ask all of us in responding to this point — and I realize this is something that will have to be ruled on by you, Your Honour — to think about the fact that every time we come into this chamber and begin a sitting, you start with a prayer. We are all part of that. I just want to remind us of the import of the comments made by Senator McCallum about the kind of representation that we have taken on as our responsibility — which takes time. The nature of this motion is to reduce time and opportunities.

The prayer that I’m referring to points out that we ask the following:

. . . let your spirit preside over our deliberations so that at this time assembled, we may serve ever better the cause of peace and justice in our land and throughout the world.

Thank you.

[Translation]

Hon. Mary Jane McCallum: If there will be a standing vote, I have a question of privilege.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

The Hon. the Speaker: Do any other senators wish to add anything? The question would be to whom, Senator McCallum?

The Hon. the Speaker: I asked if there were any other senators. Yes, I am. I will take it under advisement.

The Hon. the Speaker: I will take this under advisement and I will come back with a ruling. Thank you.

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(Debate postponed until the next sitting of the Senate.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator Dean, seconded by the Honourable Senator Boniface:

That the sixth report of the Standing Senate Committee on National Security, Defence and Veterans Affairs, entitled Arctic Security Under Threat: Urgent needs in a changing geopolitical and environmental landscape, deposited with the Clerk of the Senate on June 28, 2023, be adopted and that, pursuant to rule 12-23(1), the Senate request a complete and detailed response from the government, with the Minister of National Defence being identified as minister responsible for responding to the report, in consultation with the Minister of Northern Affairs, the Minister of Foreign Affairs, the Minister of Public Safety, Democratic Institutions and Intergovernmental Affairs and the Minister of Fisheries, Oceans and the Canadian Coast Guard.

Hon. Stan Kutcher moved second reading of Bill S-276, An Act respecting Ukrainian Heritage Month.

He said: Honourable senators, I rise today to speak to Bill S-276, An Act respecting Ukrainian Heritage Month. When passed, it will designate September of every year as Ukrainian heritage month across Canada, a time to celebrate from coast to coast to coast the contributions Ukrainian Canadians have made to the tapestry of our country.

We all know what the word “heritage” means, but it is worthwhile to take a moment and consider its importance. Our heritage is what we have inherited from the past, those things that we value and enjoy in the present and that which we strive to preserve and pass on to future generations.

Heritage is a mixture of things — ideas, memories and hopes. It is something that each of us as a member of Canadian society brings to the tapestry that is our place. It is something that each of us uses to understand and respect ourselves, to share that understanding with others and to help us better understand and respect our fellow travellers through sharing and discovering their heritage. In short, our heritage is a celebration of who we are, who we aspire to be and part of the glue that binds us to each other.

I am bringing forward this bill to honour my Ukrainian heritage, with the support and encouragement of the Ukrainian Canadian Congress, the Ukrainian diaspora, recently arrived Ukrainians seeking refuge here and MP Yvan Baker, who has brought forward similar legislation in the other place.

As I do this, I want to confirm to all who are listening that I also take this time to acknowledge that I respect and want to learn more about your heritage — for in that mutual journey of discovery, we can hope to better understand each other and, by so doing, define and reach for a better common tomorrow.

I am privileged to stand here in this chamber to share with you the story of my parents and grandparents. They came to this country from Ukraine, having lost all their property, many of their friends and most members of their own families to Russian and Nazi forces that sought to destroy them, their identity and their futures. They were among numerous Ukrainians who sought refuge in Canada following World War II and found a safe landing for their families so that they could live in peace, without fear, and flourish for generations to come.

Once here, they became part of a much larger and established Ukrainian diaspora that traces its roots to the call for “men in sheepskin coats” issued by Clifford Sifton, Minister of the Interior, who chose to welcome Eastern European farmers to Canada as an immigration strategy to settle the West between 1896 and 1902. His remembered phrase stating what he believed Canada needed to settle the Prairies was “. . . a stalwart peasant in a sheep-skin coat, born on the soil, whose forefathers have been farmers for ten generations . . . .”

Thousands living in what is now Western Canada answered this call and, by their sweat and toil, helped turn Canada into the agricultural powerhouse that it is today. Indeed, some members of this chamber can trace their family stories back to this time.

The bond between Canada and Ukraine has been forged over many decades and is still being moulded. Since February 2022, all Canadians have become keenly aware of these bonds between Canada and Ukraine.

Russia’s genocidal and illegal war on Ukraine has reminded us of the historic tragedies that we hoped were long gone but that are now re-emerging. This invasion not only threatened to destroy Ukraine but is also an attack on the shared values that bind us together — values such as human rights, democracy and the international rule of law.

Although I anguished over the loss of my mother, who died with COVID in a nursing home during the height of the pandemic, I am in some way thankful that she passed before the Russian invasion. I could not imagine how horrible it would have been for her, at her advanced age, to relive the traumas of her childhood and the memories of how those family members who survived the war suffered horribly under Stalin and subsequent Russian dictators.

This history is part of the heritage that defines Ukrainian Canadians and binds them to others living in this country whose heritage includes similar memories. It is a history with deep and tragic roots, including about 4 million deaths during Holodomor, the Stalin-imposed famine, and between 8 and 14 million killed in World War II.

As our previous colleague senator Paul Yuzyk stated in his 1964 speech in this chamber, it is:

. . . the living human spirit of truth, justice and liberty, which ultimately must prevail for Ukraine and all oppressed peoples who are still struggling for their freedom against Russian communist imperialism. The free countries of the world, including Canada, must mobilize world opinion against the largest existing totalitarian empire . . . .

Sadly, friends, this challenge still confronts us today.

There are now more than 1.3 million people of Ukrainian heritage living in Canada, close to about 4% of our population. My family is counted among those numbers, beginning with my grandparents, parents, myself, my two brothers and then our children and grandchildren. As a boy, I didn’t speak English until I started elementary school. As was the case in many refugee homes, the mother tongue was the language of the household. For us, it was Ukrainian. Since my grandparents never learned to speak English, that was the language that bound me to them.

The years passed, and due to family circumstances and economic realities, I became more and more removed from my language of origin. My familiarity with my language and culture was nourished by my Baba and Dido — grandmother and grandfather. Unfortunately, after they died, I stopped speaking Ukrainian. I had nobody in my life with whom I needed to use my mother tongue anymore.

Since the genocidal Russian war on Ukraine began and Canada started to welcome displaced Ukrainians, I have been privileged to meet many people from my homeland again seeking refuge on our shores. I have come to know a number of these recent arrivals, and these events have encouraged me to renew my cultural ties. That is why I’m bringing forward this bill.

This has also been an opportunity to reconnect with my mother tongue. It has provided me with a renewed appreciation of my roots and has rekindled an interest in understanding more about the contributions that Ukrainians have made to the history and fabric of Canada. In fact, colleagues, I have been taking Ukrainian lessons from a young professional who, along with her family, is making a difference through their work and community involvement since arriving in Canada. I am improving with every lesson and soon hope to be able to speak Ukrainian at the age of 71 almost as well as I spoke it when I was 6.

Part of what I hope to accomplish by bringing this bill to our chamber is to encourage all of us to learn more about our own heritage, as I have been learning about mine, and to use that journey to help us better know ourselves and better understand each other.

September is a notable month for Canadians of Ukrainian heritage, as it was in September over 125 years ago, when it is believed the first Ukrainian immigrants arrived in Canada. As I mentioned earlier, this was during the time when Canada was promoting the immigration of farmers from Eastern Europe to settle the West. Ivan Pylypiw and Vasyl Eleniak arrived in Canada on September 7, 1891. This day is marked in Alberta, Manitoba and Ontario as Ukrainian Heritage Day.

Marking the month of September nationally would include these days while concurrently allowing for celebrations to occur from coast to coast to coast at times that would serve the needs of various communities.

Many of these early arrivals settled in the Prairie provinces and farmed before moving to urban settings and taking on other jobs. Many served in our Armed Forces in both world wars and, like so many other ethnocultural groups in this country, paid for their place in Canada with their blood.

There are also many stories of these early Ukrainian Prairie settlers being helped by their Indigenous neighbours. Indeed, these bonds between Indigenous and Ukrainian communities are symbolized by the kokum scarf. I have noticed, as have many of you in this chamber, that some of our colleagues have been wearing this symbol of appreciation and mutual respect.

We are fortunate in Canada to be part of a tapestry that was woven by many hands. The important contributions made by Ukrainian Canadians, throughout our history and in our present, have helped form the country that we live in today.

This bill is an opportunity to recognize that heritage and celebrate the impactful role that Ukrainian Canadians have played in our social, economic, political and cultural fabric. It would also provide opportunities for learning and education on the shared values of rules-based governance and democracy that are the foundation of Canada’s support for Ukraine during this challenging time.

There are countless Canadians of Ukrainian heritage who have made contributions to our country in the fields of science, the arts, the Canadian Armed Forces, athletics, business and politics. They have played a part in weaving the tapestry of the Canada of yesterday, today and tomorrow.

I will take a moment to highlight only a few here:

Individuals such as Roberta Bondar — the first Canadian women and second Canadian in space — a neurologist, who is a pioneer in space medicine research. She is also an accomplished nature photographer. Dr. Bondar is a role model to many who dream big.

Sylvia Fedoruk was another medical pioneer who worked as a medical physicist in the area of the uses of radioactive isotopes and cancer treatment. She was a professor who became the first woman named chancellor of the University of Saskatchewan in 1986. Fedoruk also excelled at baseball, track and curling. She is an inductee into the Canada’s Curling Hall of Fame, and was the president of the Canadian Ladies Curling Association. Maybe Senator Plett’s granddaughter will one day be in that same position. This trailblazer accomplished many firsts over her lifetime, including becoming the first female lieutenant governor of Saskatchewan in 1988. She wove many threads into the fabric of our country’s history.

Ray Hnatyshyn was also from Saskatchewan. His father was Canada’s first Ukrainian-born senator. Ray served as a member of the House of Commons from 1974 until 1988, and served in the cabinets of both Joe Clark and Brian Mulroney. On January 29, 1990, he was sworn into office as Canada’s Governor General where he transformed that office into one that celebrated his phrase, “The governor general belongs to the people of Canada.”

For decades, Canadian households tuned in to test their knowledge with “Jeopardy” host Alex Trebek. Trebek, whose father came to Canada as a boy from Ukraine, worked at the CBC before taking up the helm of “Jeopardy.”

Playwright and novelist George Ryga tells us about the Canadian experience in his writing. Raised in a northern Alberta farming community, he rose to prominence despite little formal education. The Ecstasy of Rita Joe and The Other Plays are his depiction of the plight of Indigenous peoples struggling to be heard.

Musicians from all genres draw from their Ukrainian heritage, such as Randy Bachman, Paul Brandt, Chantal Kreviazuk, LUBA and Ivan and Stefan Doroschuk from Men Without Hats. I know my seat mate will know all about that.

There are countless athletes of Ukrainian descent that have represented Canada, especially NHL hockey players including Wayne Gretzky and my own cousin Mark Osborne. Mark is much less known than Mr. Gretzky and, sadly, he spent more than a decade-and-a-half playing for the Maple Leafs. What can you do? It should have been the Canadiens.

Senators, this chamber has several current members of Ukrainian descent. There have been many before us. I remember making this connection with Senator Andreychuk before her retirement.

One such distinguished senator was Paul Yuzyk, who was a leader within the Canadian Ukrainian community and has been called the “father of multiculturalism.” He set the stage for a shift in the underlying ethnocultural values of the Canada we see today. His first speech in the Red Chamber was centred around the concept of multiculturalism. He insisted that all ethnic groups deserved to be recognized as partners in the Canadian mosaic. In his March 3, 1964, speech entitled “Canada: A Multicultural Nation,” he pointed out that Indigenous peoples were in Canada long before the coming of French and English settlers. He saw our multicultural reality as “unity in our diversity” and challenged our nation to embrace and celebrate that reality. In that speech, he pointed out this journey, if successful, would benefit not only Canada but the world community as well. He said:

If we succeed . . . to evolve the pattern of unity in continuing diversity . . . this will serve as a precedent (model) for other states in the world . . . It will be Canada’s contribution to the world.

I hope that all of us in this chamber recognize the value of unity in our diversity. Our task is to better learn how we can harness the good in the ties that bind us while avoiding the incitements of those who would use our diversity as an excuse to rend us asunder.

The vyshyvanka is a symbol of that call for understanding, respect and a willingness to work together for the common good. Traditionally, the vyshyvanka is a handmade blouse sewn of natural materials and embroidered with threads of various colours. Ukrainians believe embroidery has a talismanic meaning, the power to protect a person from harm and to bring good luck.

The vyshyvanka is a symbol of the beauty that is created when threads of many colours are woven together. It is a symbol of how every one of us can link with others to create something much greater than the sum of our parts.

Senators, we are living in a time that calls for more celebration of the things that bind us together in the face of the things that pull us apart. This is why I am seeking your support to move this bill celebrating Ukrainian heritage quickly through this chamber and over to the other place.

D’akuju. Thank you. Wela’lioq.

The Hon. the Speaker: I’m taking it under advisement. Sorry, I didn’t understand your question. Thank you.

Hon. Yuen Pau Woo: Are we finished with the point of privilege?

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate), pursuant to notice of October 18, 2023, moved:

That, when the Senate next adjourns after the adoption of this motion, it do stand adjourned until Tuesday, October 24, 2023, at 2 p.m.

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: Thank you, Senator Kutcher, for that speech and for introducing this bill. I happen to think that heritage months dedicated to various communities are extremely important because they really place the community in Canada as opposed to simply looking at, for example, national days of other countries.

As you have outlined in brief — because you could have spoken for hours about the contributions of the Ukrainian-Canadian community — there has been a significant contribution. Certainly, the contribution of our late colleague senator Paul Yuzyk in terms of multiculturalism back in 1964 was an important one in developing what was then the multiculturalism policy introduced in 1971 and the act in 1988, I believe.

During the years of Soviet domination of Ukraine, I think it’s fair to say that Ukrainian language and culture were more alive, well protected and growing in Canada than it was in Ukraine. And here we are in another situation where there is another attempt by Russia to stamp out Ukrainian culture, language and people. Are we back into that space? Is there a sad similarity to that period? How do you see the role of Ukrainian Canadians, not only in that situation, but reminding us of our role as citizens of the world in understanding the various cultures?

Senator Kutcher: Thank you, senator. One of the most important things about cultural appreciation is that, as we learn to appreciate our own heritage, we have the opportunity to equally appreciate everybody else’s heritage. That is one of the gifts, as Senator Yussuff pointed out, that Canada can give the world.

We are all too aware of different places in the world and, indeed, in our own history where we have vigorously stamped out the culture of others, where we have not treated other people with respect and dignity, where we have “othered” them and discounted their humanity, language and identity. We’re better than that.

We can’t avoid that we have had that history in Canada. We can’t avoid that history happens over and over again in the world. However, we can say that we can learn from those terrible atrocities and the difficulties of the past, and that we have a responsibility here — in our own country — to bring healing to the damage that we have caused. Also, as you point out, it’s important to stand up for other countries who are faced with similar circumstances.

Thank you for your question.

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition) moved second reading of Bill C-281, An Act to amend the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act, the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act (Sergei Magnitsky Law), the Broadcasting Act and the Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act.

He said: Honourable senators, today I rise to speak about Bill C-281, the international human rights act.

This bill was authored and introduced in the other place by my Conservative colleague Philip Lawrence who is the Member of Parliament for Northumberland—Peterborough South. I want to commend MP Lawrence for bringing this bill forward, and for his commitment to upholding human rights around the world. This bill will strengthen Canada’s ability to say that we are walking the talk on upholding and promoting human rights on a global scale — a cause that resonates to the core of our Canadian values.

Bill C-281 has several provisions, including amendments to the Sergei Magnitsky Law, the Department of Foreign Affairs, Trade and Development Act, the Prohibiting Cluster Munitions Act and the Broadcasting Act. Each provision addresses a gap in Parliament’s ability to hold the government accountable in Canada’s defence of human rights around the world, a cause that I’m sure senators can agree transcends party lines and the government of the day.

Let me first speak to the amendment to the Justice for Victims of Corrupt Foreign Officials Act, colloquially referred to as the Magnitsky Act. The Magnitsky Act equips our government with another tool to levy sanctions against human rights violators. However, I am disappointed to say that this tool has not been utilized as effectively as it could and should be, especially in recent years. Astonishingly, not a single entity or individual from China, for instance, has faced sanctions by Canada under the Magnitsky Act, despite repeated calls for such actions.

Take the situation in Hong Kong, a glaring example of why Bill C-281 is so necessary in today’s world. The ongoing human rights crackdown in Hong Kong, as senators know, continues despite repeated calls for the regime in Beijing to uphold its commitment to “one country, two systems.” We have seen ample evidence and many accounts of the situation on the ground in Hong Kong, but the current government has yet to lay sanctions on any official, whether it be a Hong Kong official or a PRC — People’s Republic of China — official. That’s despite many of those officials having ties to Canada, whether through property ownership, family members holding Canadian passports or having been educated here.

Simply put, no one has been held accountable by our country for the human rights abuses happening in Hong Kong.

What Bill C-281 seeks to do in amending the Magnitsky Act accomplishes two things: allowing parliamentary input and providing parliamentary oversight. Essentially, it will create a mechanism through which parliamentarians will be able to recommend foreign officials, like those involved in human rights violations in Hong Kong and other places in the world, to be included on sanctions lists.

That is something I had tried to do with my own bill amending the Magnitsky Act, but it can be done with this one instead. It is all the same to me.

Part of the rationale for this measure is that parliamentarians are in touch with human rights organizations and NGOs in a way that the ministers of the day might not be. It is therefore logical that parliamentarians should be able to recommend individuals for sanction to the minister.

It is important to note, however, that the minister is not obligated to comply with such recommendations. The minister remains free to accept or refuse those recommendations — and here is where the second part comes in — but they will have to provide an explanation why. It has been the tradition of this country that ministers are individually accountable to Parliament for their own actions and those of their department.

The amendment proposed in this bill will ensure that, within 40 days of either the House of Commons or Parliament passing a motion to sanction an individual or a group of individuals, Global Affairs Canada, or GAC, will have to report back to Parliament. This would enforce a greater and, I believe, more reasonable degree of accountability. If, in fact, either the Senate, the House of Commons or both have deemed that Magnitsky Act sanctions should be enforced, it is not unreasonable for Global Affairs Canada to come to a parliamentary committee and explain why they have determined otherwise.

To be abundantly clear, I want to reiterate that this amendment to the Magnitsky Act does not force GAC to take orders from Parliament regarding sanctioning. We, as parliamentarians, appreciate that there might be other considerations to be made in issuing such sanctions and do not want to be seen as impeding or interfering with the work of government.

As I said at the start, this amendment simply allows parliamentarians to have input and to be provided an explanation when that input is not acted upon. Colleagues, this isn’t about ego, a power struggle or some belief that parliamentarians know better than everyone else. I certainly do not believe so.

The author of this bill and I, as its sponsor in the Senate, genuinely believe that this measure of reporting and accountability will result in the sanctioning of more human rights abusers around the world in a more efficient and effective process. I think that’s everyone’s goal.

In the initial months after the Magnitsky Act came into force in Canada, we sanctioned a flurry of individuals in Myanmar, Russia and Venezuela. Since then, we have had very little activity from the government on that front. In fact, no one has been sanctioned under the Magnitsky Act since that initial flurry.

We want to put this reporting and accountability mechanism in place to encourage the government to utilize the tools it has to sanction those individuals who are committing the vilest of crimes and human rights atrocities around the world. If they aren’t utilizing those tools, we should know why so we can fix whatever needs to be fixed.

Another accountability provision in this legislation also places certain reporting requirements on the Minister of Foreign Affairs in relation to the work being done by our government in protecting international human rights, requiring the publication of a report outlining those activities. Initially, this provision called for the report to include the names and circumstances of individuals that the Canadian government and Global Affairs Canada are advocating for and working to get released.

However, to address concerns that such a disclosure could actually place some of these individuals or their families in harm’s way, an amendment was adopted at committee in the other place that gives the minister discretion regarding the disclosure of those names. The bill now states that the minister must make all reasonable efforts to consult with family members or representatives of the prisoners of conscience, and may decide not to include certain information in the list if a person consulted by the minister requests that the information not be included or the minister is satisfied that not including it would be in the best interests of the advancement of human rights or the personal safety of the prisoner.

That amendment was adopted in the spirit that, again, these reporting obligations are not in any way meant to restrict or obstruct GAC and the important work it does. Rather, it is designed to support the department.

We believe it will ensure that NGOs and the public will be better positioned to pressure governments around the world to release prisoners of conscience — people who are being held simply because of the beliefs and thoughts they have about the betterment of their countries. They are people who are fighting for human rights, freedom of expression and freedom of speech.

By raising public awareness in Canada and abroad about the incarceration and, sometimes, sadly, the torture of prisoners of conscience, we can give those people hope. More importantly, we can help drive out that evil, leading to the freedom of prisoners of conscience and advocates of democracy, women’s rights, LGBTQ2 rights and freedom.

The next provision of this bill restricts investments in companies that violate human rights or exploit developing nations with respect to cluster munitions. These provisions underscore our commitment to upholding international standards, our responsibility that we have previously passed on the matter and international treaties to which we are signatories.

Considering that the United States is not a signatory to the Dublin Convention and does, unfortunately, manufacture these types of weapons, there was a question raised in the other place about whether we would be running the risk of being lobbied by American weapons retailers to ensure that shareholders or people involved in those companies, for example, are not targeted by the bill. My colleague in the House, MP Philip Lawrence, responded with the following:

Political pressure has been shown to be incredibly powerful. Textron, which is one of the largest arms manufacturers located in the United States, stopped producing cluster munitions and specifically stated it was because of political pressure. Therefore, with things like this legislation, which would prevent the funding through Canadian businesses of cluster munitions, not only do we have a hard line in stopping them but we also continue to ramp up the political pressure. I would be glad to work alongside the member to stop the manufacturing of cluster munitions throughout the world.

That brings us to the fourth and final provision: empowering the government to ban state propaganda outlets that operate in Canada and spread disinformation, interfering in our public debate.

In the wake of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, we saw RT, Russia’s state propaganda network, taken off Canadian airwaves. On March 16 of this year, the Government of Canada formally removed Russia Today and RT France from our airwaves on the basis that the distribution of those services were not in the public interest, as their content appears to constitute abusive comments or is likely to expose the Ukrainian people to hatred or contempt on the basis of race, or national or ethnic origin, and that their programming is antithetical to the achievement of the policy objectives of the Broadcasting Act.

Russian propaganda has no place on Canadian airwaves. In fact, no state propaganda should have a place in the Canadian broadcast system at all. Senators may recall the controversies surrounding CGTN, Beijing’s state propaganda arm, with its denial of the Uyghur genocide and the broadcasting of forced confessions from dissidents.

The Broadcasting Act amendments in this legislation are crucial to align Canada with like-minded partners, such as the U.K., which banned CGTN in 2021. State propaganda that aims to spread disinformation is acting against Canadian interests. While I support the CRTC’s decision to pull those licences, they shouldn’t have had to take such a broad approach in doing so. There should have been a more straightforward mechanism put in place to support this. This bill would give the CRTC a specific tool to say that country X or Y is committing genocide and spreading its propaganda in our country and, therefore, loses its right to broadcast in Canada.

This amendment simplifies the matter for the regulator instead of requiring it to sort of gerrymander around existing rules. We believe this is a modest but necessary amendment that would allow the CRTC to protect vulnerable Canadians and fight against misinformation.

To conclude, Bill C-281, the international human rights act, is a step in the right direction. It won’t solve all problems, honourable senators, but it will add another tool to Parliament’s toolbox. Canada has historically had a strong commitment to upholding human rights around the world. The provisions in this bill allow us to make sure that these are not just words, but the very principles by which we stand. This bill gives parliamentarians tools to compel the government of the day to take action, and to hold it accountable for the actions it does take in upholding human rights around the world. This bill passed with unanimous consent in the House, supported by all parties, and I hope that it will also pass unanimously and in a timely fashion in this place. Thank you, colleagues.

An Hon. Senator: Say “no.”

Senator Kutcher: Of course, I am going to say “yes,” but I want to put a caveat in here while everyone is listening. I would expect that you would arrange for a wonderful meal of varenyky, holopchi and everything else, which would make it much better for us to visit — and definitely the music.

Thank you for that suggestion, and thank you for offering your hospitality.

Hon. René Cormier: Thank you very much, Senator Kutcher, for your eloquent speech on the importance of culture — specifically Ukrainian culture, of course, but also culture in general. I had the immense privilege of welcoming a group of Ukrainians who had arrived in New Brunswick to my francophone region. Through music, we were able to create an incredible bond between our two communities.

We know that culture is a provincial jurisdiction, but wouldn’t it be a good idea to have more programs at the federal level to help different cultures come together, since it is these kinds of engagements that strengthen our country culturally? Would you agree with that?

[English]

Senator Kutcher: Thank you very much for your question, Senator Cormier, and also for your leadership in improving the Franco-Canadian culture — the Canadien culture. It is just so important. Thank you for that, and also for your musical talents, which we wish we heard more of.

When I first learned to play the harmonica, the first song that I played — and it just came out of nowhere — was the “Kolomeyka,” which is a Ukrainian dance.

I completely agree with you; frankly, I would like to see much more federal investment in everything that we can do to help us better understand each other, and I think it must begin with our young people. I would like to see investment in Canada so that our young people can go from coast to coast to coast in order to live and experience culture and community from people who are not like the people that live down the street from us — rather it’s people we need to get to know better. I think we would have a lot fewer conflicts in this country amongst ourselves — this internecine warfare, which is not necessary — if we had the opportunity to spend more time living and learning with each other.

Thank you.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): I’ll start, but first of all, let me echo Senator Dasko’s invitation. Although it may be her hometown, she fled Winnipeg — I’m not sure why.

I am still there, but I would also encourage you to come and visit the wonderful Canadian Museum for Human Rights.

Thank you, Senator Kutcher, for your speech — I agree with all aspects of it. I’m not Ukrainian; I’m Mennonite. But, of course, after the Mennonites left Holland, they went to Poland. They fled communism there and went to Ukraine, and many of them suffered and died during the Holodomor as well.

There are many similarities between Mennonites and Ukrainians — certainly varenyky being one of them.

Senator Kutcher, thank you; I do want to speak to this. I appreciate what you have said.

Your Honour, with that in mind, I will prepare my notes, and I would like to adjourn for the balance of my time.

(On motion of Senator Plett, debate adjourned.)

Hon. Michael L. MacDonald: That was a great speech; I really enjoyed it. I want to make a clarification for the chamber. You talk about how identity can be dismissed. You mentioned both the French and the English, but you probably should have said the French and the British — because although the English are British, the British aren’t necessarily English. The British are a multicultural people. I know this because most of my ancestors are British, but very few of them are English.

As you talk about the eradication of culture and language, Cape Breton is filled with the eradication of both. My grandparents were all fluent Gaelic speakers. It is the third most common European language in this country. In fact, it was the third most common language in the country at the time of Confederation. In Cape Breton, my father and all of my grandparents had their language suppressed.

One of the most remarkable things about it is the following: In school, usually the person doing the suppression spoke the language themselves, so it was a strange dichotomy. I just wanted to put that on the record.

Do you agree?

Senator Kutcher: Thank you for that question, Senator MacDonald.

You very poignantly pointed out to us how important this is, and I thank you for doing that.

Senator Cordy and I had the privilege of being at the opening of the Celtic Colours International Festival just last week. It is amazing and joyous to see the revival of the Gaelic culture, and the incredible richness that culture brings to all of us.

It’s with great disappointment that we look at what we lost — because just think of what we could be, had we not lost it. Now we have to get it back.

Thank you.

[Translation]

Hon. Donna Dasko: Thank you very much, Senator Kutcher, for your wonderful comments. I share your Ukrainian heritage, and I very much value what you have said today, especially your emphasis on the positive. Of course, we are now in a terrible situation that’s facing Ukraine. Both of us spoke last night to Senator Omidvar’s bill with respect to the seizure of Russian assets. I appreciate your mention of the Holodomor — this is an example of Soviet terror on Ukraine.

This is supposed to be a question, so I’ll ask it this way: One of the places that I find tremendously inspiring is the Canadian Museum for Human Rights in Winnipeg. That’s my hometown. There is a wonderful exhibit there about the Holodomor, as well as the Holocaust, and many other stories of terror.

Would you encourage all of our colleagues to visit the Canadian Museum for Human Rights in my hometown of Winnipeg? Thank you.

Senator Kutcher: Thank you very much for that question, Senator Dasko.