The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

(On motion of Senator Deacon (Nova Scotia), bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.)

The Hon. the Speaker informed the Senate that a message had been received from the House of Commons with Bill C-244, An Act to amend the Copyright Act (diagnosis, maintenance and repair).

(Bill read first time.)

Hon. Julie Miville-Dechêne: Senator Gold, as you know, Meta has blocked hyperlinks to news sites on its platform, and Google recently reiterated its plan to do the same when Bill C-18, the Online News Act, comes into force at the end of December.

Our media outlets are suffering from these decisions. They are less visible and have lost up to half of their users. Many are devastated by the apparent impasse between the government and Google about Bill C-18 regarding online news. Even the organization News Media Coalition has reversed its position and is now calling on the Minister of Canadian Heritage to accept some of Google’s demands in the final regulations that will be adopted. Google, however, believes that the fundamental problems are in the legislation itself.

My question is this: Is the government willing to amend Bill C-18 in order to find a solution to this impasse?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Well, thank you. Once again, I would ask that when senators ask questions, they make sure their factual assumptions are correct. It does dishonour to this chamber and to the veterans.

The answer is simply that there was no banning of prayers. The answer is that it is misrepresenting to say there is no banning of prayers. The directive simply said that, whether it’s prayers or symbols, they be inclusive of diversity, religious and otherwise, in this country. I would ask honourable members, who can hold me to account, as is your right — and it is my duty and privilege to respond — to at least not be misleading in the factual assumptions.

I have one minute to answer, and I am answering you now clearly. I would also like to not be heckled when I am answering previous questions. Thank you, colleagues.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question. The decisions you highlighted are unfortunate; however, I have received assurances that the Government of Canada will continue to work with these organizations through the regulatory process.

Essentially, the Online News Act is a bargaining system that encourages news organizations and tech giants to come to the table and negotiate fair agreements.

Canada needs a strong, free and independent press, which is a fundamental part of our democracy. Canadians also expect tech giants to abide by our country’s laws. We will not be intimidated. I would also point out that many countries are facing the same challenge as they implement and consider legislation designed to protect freedom of the press.

The government will examine all proposals received. I have been given assurances that we will continue to work in that direction.

Some Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

(On motion of Senator Clement, debate adjourned.)

(At 4:39 p.m., the Senate was continued until Tuesday, October 24, 2023, at 2 p.m.)

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, on Tuesday, news outlets worldwide repeated a claim by Hamas that Israel had attacked a hospital in Gaza, killing innocent civilians. The rush to judgment that followed the CBC included Prime Minister Trudeau. He said both in the House and outside to reporters that the strike was unacceptable, illegal and international law must be upheld.

The timing of these comments implied he believed Israel was responsible, a story spread by a group our country officially recognizes as terrorists.

Prime Minister Trudeau is simply not worth the cost to Canada’s reputation. Is it too much to expect him to show common sense, leader, and speak with sober second thought, especially at such a dangerous time as this?

Hon. Michael L. MacDonald: Senator Gold, next month Canadians and veterans will gather on Remembrance Day to honour those who served in war, with particular emphasis on those who made the eternal sacrifice in the defence of freedom for this country. I’m always reminded of John McCrae’s “In Flanders Fields.” There are three stanzas in that poem, and the third and most evocative stanza has six lines. The last five lines of stanza three are as follows:

To you from failing hands we throw

The torch; be yours to hold it high.

If ye break faith with us who die

We shall not sleep, though poppies grow

In Flanders fields.

The Government of Canada that you represent has declared these prayers to be forbidden at Remembrance Day ceremonies. But in the Senate, we start every day with prayers. Why are prayers okay for living senators but not okay for our war dead?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Well, thank you for your question. Regardless of who launched an attack on a hospital, we would all agree that the bombing of a hospital is a deplorable and shameful crime against humanity, and an act to be condemned. Even if the bomb was accidental, it is still one that tears our hearts out, and our hearts and compassion go out to all of the victims and their families.

The Prime Minister did not attribute responsibility. He reacted as all human beings would in the face of this horrible circumstance. The Prime Minister is clear and states that, today, I believe, he is working with his allies to determine exactly what happened. When that becomes clear to the satisfaction of the Prime Minister, he will so announce.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Certainly, we are taking recommendations from reliable sources into consideration.

The Government of Canada’s economic plan will continue to strike a balance between the need to support Canadians today and the need to invest in our economic future. The government will continue to do so in a fiscally responsible way.

The International Monetary Fund and the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development anticipate that Canada will have the strongest growth of any G7 country in 2024. The government is therefore taking a responsible and balanced approach to budget management while supporting the most vulnerable Canadians, strengthening the public health care system, investing in Canada’s future prosperity and ensuring its long-term fiscal sustainability.

Hon. Judith G. Seidman: My question is for the Leader of the Government in the Senate. Modifying the Tobacco and Vaping Products Act to include vaping in 2018 was said to be to protect the health and safety of Canadians, with the objective to reduce smoking in Canada to a prevalence of 5% and reduce smoking and nicotine addiction among young people.

This legislation was passed with very little supporting scientific evidence. The promise by the government was that the legislation would be updated as the science became available. We now have the data and scientific evidence at our disposal. We know that vaping is not a successful smoking cessation tool, that vaping is a gateway to youth cigarette smoking and that vaping liquids are toxic.

When will the legislation be updated in accordance with the data?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. It’s an important one. Thank you for underlining the historic investment that the government made in 2022 to modernize NORAD capabilities.

I’m not sure that the minister that we had in Question Period would be in an even better position to answer your question, but I will do my best notwithstanding that.

It’s my understanding that the government has already released the timelines for all 19 projects proceeding under this plan. My understanding as well is that the majority of these projects will have reached initial operational capability over the next decade. I have no further information at this juncture, senator.

Senator D. Patterson: Thank you.

Senator Gold, the Auditor General’s 2022 report to Parliament on Arctic water surveillance included a recommendation to address delays in the delivery of equipment to replace and improve the key federal capabilities used for maritime surveillance in the Canadian Arctic and the risk that several types of equipment may cease operating before being replaced.

A March 2023 statement by Public Services and Procurement Canada stated that:

. . . the P-8A Poseidon is the only currently available aircraft that meets all of the CMMA operational requirements . . . .

Hon. Clément Gignac: Senator Gold, I would like to talk about fiscal discipline.

Most experts agree that your government did the right thing at the beginning of the pandemic by injecting tens of billions of dollars into the economy to avoid an economic depression. However, those same experts also think that this was made possible by the fiscal discipline of previous governments, which resulted in Canada having a AAA credit rating and a 30% debt load.

At the beginning of the summer, the International Monetary Fund, the IMF, issued its report and recommended that the government adopt fiscal anchors, noting that good intentions to reduce the deficit in the medium term were not enough.

Senator Gold, the government will be presenting its fall economic statement in the coming weeks. Does the Minister of Finance intend to consider the IMF’s recommendations?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question, senator. You’re absolutely right, employee ownership trusts have a number of benefits. They enable employees to share in the success of their work, they support participation in business decisions and they allow workers to receive their share of the profits.

Budget 2023 announced the government’s commitment to create these trusts while consulting, as properly they should, with stakeholders to address remaining barriers. Budget 2023 proposed to introduce tax changes to facilitate the creation of these trusts. The government has consulted with stakeholders to see how best to enhance employee rights and to enhance their participation in the governance of employee ownership trusts, and will have more to say in due course.

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: Senator Gold, in June of 2022, then defence minister Anita Anand announced $38.6 billion to modernize the North American Aerospace Defense Command, or NORAD. The funding is meant to be spent over 20 years and is focused on modernizing our surveillance systems, the technology we use and our air-weapon systems while also investing in new infrastructure and support capabilities as well as science and technology aimed at future proofing our capabilities to defend North America.

The President of the U.S. and Prime Minister Trudeau released a joint statement on March 24, 2023, stating:

Our highest priority is to protect our citizens and our sovereign territory. We will invest in the modernization of the North American Aerospace Defense Command (NORAD) . . .

They specifically agreed to accelerate the procurement of the Over-the-Horizon Radar to 2028, and Canadian investment in Arctic infrastructure to support the arrival of the first F-35 aircraft in Canada.

Senator, can you give this chamber an update on the contract for specific investments?

Hon. Tony Loffreda: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate.

Senator Gold, in Budget 2023, the government committed to introducing tax changes that would take effect in 2024 to facilitate the creation of employee ownership trusts. I am a strong supporter of employee ownership trusts as they would provide business owners an alternative succession option that would allow employees to share in the success of their work.

We know that 76% of Canada’s business owners plan to exit their business within the next decade, and only 1 in 10 has a formal succession plan in place. The timing for employee ownership trusts is now. Senator Gold, can you assure us that this remains a top priority, and when might we expect the government’s legislative proposal?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question, for your continuing leadership and work on this file and for bringing these matters to our attention — as you did as a critic, if I recall. You continue to do this to your credit.

As evidence accumulates, the government will continue to evaluate the implications of that evidence for changes or amendments, whether it’s with legislation, regulations or other policy directives. I am not aware of the status of those deliberations, much less where they will lead. However, as soon as more information is available, I will certainly be pleased to share it in this chamber, as I know the government will be sharing it with the Canadian people.

Hon. Chantal Petitclerc: Senator Gold, on October 3, in response to Senator Plett, you told us that it is the wish of the government you represent that the Senate become more modern and less partisan. The following can also be read on your website:

. . . The GRO shepherds government legislation through the Upper Chamber, ensuring that it is thoroughly and efficiently reviewed. A major focus of the GRO is to support Senate modernization by advocating for a more independent, accountable, responsible and transparent Senate — one that conducts its deliberations in a less partisan manner.

Senator Gold, can you tell us if you consider your government to be well on its way to achieving its goal of a modernized Senate? Is this part of your mandate nearing completion?

Hon. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu: Honourable senators, last Monday, La Presse informed us of the recent seizure of a record amount of drugs, cell phones and homemade weapons at the Cowansville Institution, valued at $700,000 over three months. We are talking about $2 million for 2023.

In light of this information, it is obvious that the safety and rehabilitation of inmates are not a priority for your government. Why does the government plan to spend a billion dollars to buy back guns from law-abiding hunters under Bill C-21 when it has invested very little in security and the control of illegal weapons in prisons?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question.

Disinformation is a problem in our society. It undermines peace, prosperity and our individual freedoms. It erodes trust in democracy and reinforces polarizing viewpoints that are not used for the common good. Especially in time of crisis, this information is dangerous and harmful.

The Government of Canada works in close collaboration with its allies, and it shares pertinent intelligence to counter the global threats. It has also established the Strategic Coordination Centre on Information Sharing to help support timely, effective and responsible sharing of such information between institutions of this government.

The government is taking steps and considering steps to counter state-sponsored disinformation in Canada. It has created a dedicated team to help increase Canada’s capacity to understand, monitor and detect disinformation, and decisions will continue to be based on the best interests of Canadians.