Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question, and for making the important link between the important work that the Canadian Armed Forces do in so many areas and, in particular, the work that they’re doing here to help us deal with historically high levels of devastating wildfires.

The Government of Canada is aware that it has a challenge with both recruitment and retention. It’s been addressed in this chamber on previous occasions, and it’s a matter that is actively being considered. That would include all measures in order to both attract and retain those in the Canadian Armed Forces, or as they change locations within the country.

With regard to your question, I will certainly bring that to the attention of the relevant minister.

Hon. Leo Housakos: Government leader, the government’s answer to my colleagues Senator Plett’s and Senator Boisvenu’s question regarding the competence of Minister Mendicino is shameful. Government leader, this is the truth of the matter: The problem isn’t that Minister Mendicino didn’t announce that Paul Bernardo was being transferred — the problem is that he played dumb once it was made public, and he acted like it was the first time he had ever heard about it. That’s the problem with Minister Mendicino.

It seems to be the default setting of Prime Minister Trudeau and Minister Mendicino to play dumb every time they get called out — just as the minister was called out many weeks ago regarding his statement that all illegal police stations in Canada had been shut down, and then a few days later, we find out there are a couple of police stations still operating in our own hometown. The minister played dumb again, and, worse than that, he blamed the RCMP.

My question is very simple, government leader: Is Minister Mendicino playing dumb, or is it possible that he’s genuinely this incompetent?

Hon. Senators: Hear, hear.

The Hon. the Speaker: Senator Carignan, you have 17 seconds.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, this week we will be paying tribute to the Senate pages who will be leaving us this summer.

Laura Boyd will be continuing her studies in biology at Carleton University in the fall, where she will enter her third year. Laura is grateful for the two years she spent representing Manitoba in the Senate as a page and feels privileged to have worked during so many historic moments. She would like to thank all those who made the experience so unforgettable, and she is appreciative of those she was able to learn from.

Thank you, Laura.

Hon. Claude Carignan: Leader, I have tracked down more than 11 statements in which Minister Mendicino told the Canadian public that he invoked the Emergencies Act on the advice and at the request of law enforcement.

For example, on February 28, 2022, during question period in the House of Commons, he said, “. . . we had to invoke the Emergencies Act, and we did so on the basis of non-partisan, professional advice from law enforcement.” He also stated, on May 3, 2022, “We invoked the Emergencies Act after we received advice from law enforcement.” On April 26, 2022, at the joint committee, he said the same thing. However, the Commissioner of the Ontario Provincial Police said the following:

I can tell you that I am telling you the absolute truth, sir. At no point did I provide or request that the Emergencies Act be invoked.

RCMP Commissioner Brenda Lucki wrote the same thing. The commissioner wrote that she felt the police had not yet exhausted all the tools at their disposal. The former Ottawa police chief said they had never sought recourse.

The former chief superintendent of the Ontario Provincial Police said the same.

I have run out of things to say about Minister Mendicino’s contradictory messages. I don’t necessarily want to use the same words as Senator Housakos. Is this a case of incompetence? Has the minister really lied to the public so many times?

Either this is starting to look like bad faith, or the minister has lied. Shouldn’t he resign?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): The answer is no. First, when it comes to invoking the Emergencies Act, the report clearly stated that it was entirely justified. It is also true that the government made this decision based on a whole array of information from various sources, including information about the inability of police forces and others to manage a situation that was out of control, especially here in Ottawa.

I think that is the gist of the statements from Minister Mendicino that you cited.

The Hon. the Speaker: Tareq Winski is honoured to have had the opportunity to represent the province of British Columbia within the Senate Page Program for the past two years. Tareq will be beginning his third year of international management at the University of Ottawa and hopes to attend law school in the future. The Senate has provided him with memories and experiences he will forever treasure. Tareq extends his sincere thanks for this extraordinary opportunity and wishes to thank the Usher of the Black Rod, his dedicated page colleagues and the esteemed senators, whose support and guidance have been instrumental in making this journey so rewarding.

Thank you, Tareq.

The Hon. the Speaker: I have heard enough arguments, and I would like to remind you that former Speaker Furey handed down a ruling on this subject on May 2. I suggest that you reread it.

I will read it to remind you of the rule that applies. I believe we are intelligent enough to interpret it.

[English]

Unparliamentary language

6-13. (1) All personal, sharp or taxing speeches are unparliamentary and are out of order.

6-13. (2) When a Senator is called to order for unparliamentary language, any Senator may demand that the words be taken down in writing by the Clerk.

6-13. (3) A Senator who has used unparliamentary words and who does not explain or retract them or offer an apology acceptable to the Senate shall be disciplined as the Senate may determine.

We must remind ourselves what unparliamentary language is.

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker: Pursuant to the order of Tuesday, June 13, 2023, I leave the chair for the Senate to resolve into a Committee of the Whole to receive Ms. Harriet Solloway respecting her appointment as Public Sector Integrity Commissioner. The Honourable Senator Ringuette will chair the committee.

On the Order:

The Senate in Committee of the Whole in order to receive Ms. Harriet Solloway respecting her appointment as Public Sector Integrity Commissioner.

(The sitting of the Senate was suspended and put into Committee of the Whole, the Honourable Pierrette Ringuette in the chair.)

The Hon. the Speaker: First of all, there are other people who may wish to speak, but I think I have heard the arguments.

Hon. Pierrette Ringuette: I will be brief, Madam Speaker, and thank you for recognizing me.

This is not the first time in the last month that a point of order on this subject has been brought to the attention of the Chair. I believe that a point of order has already been raised, and Speaker Furey ruled on the subject. Perhaps some of our colleagues have forgotten that ruling.

Perhaps we simply need to remind colleagues that a ruling has already been made and accepted by everyone in the chamber. Thank you.

Hon. Jane Cordy: Your Honour, I would like to raise a point of order. I’m noticing increasingly in the chamber, particularly during Question Period, unparliamentary language being used over and over again by senators. As I said, it is happening particularly during Question Period. It is unacceptable in the Senate that we accuse one another of being liars or that we accuse ministers of being liars. It is unparliamentary and should be unacceptable. I would like to raise this point of order, Your Honour.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): I find it unacceptable when we are not allowed in this chamber to call a spade a spade. We were told a few months ago by the previous Speaker that calling somebody a liar was unacceptable, and we accepted that. But for us to say somebody is not telling the truth when a person has been caught in telling an untruth, Your Honour, is our duty. Any senator who believes that is not our duty should check to see what his or her responsibility is in this chamber.

When we have a minister who misleads and a Prime Minister who misleads and says things that have been proven over and over again to be false, for somebody to suggest that is unparliamentary for us to say so, that, Your Honour, I suggest is unparliamentary. I will keep on doing my job, our caucus will keep on doing its job, and I trust that every senator in this chamber will respect us for doing our job as we see fit.

[Translation]

Hon. Claude Carignan: Madam Speaker, look, we have a constitutional right, as parliamentarians, to speak the truth, to say things, and to denounce what needs to be denounced. That is our duty.

I have 11 statements from an individual who keeps saying the same thing over and over but is being contradicted by everyone who is supposed to advise him — all the leaders and police chiefs — and this has been proven. I think it’s our role to say when people are being misled. I completely understand the purpose of the concept of unparliamentary language, but a spade is a spade, and we need to call it a spade.

If we are limited in our power to speak out, in our freedom of expression, in our right to denounce what is false, I think it will diminish our responsibility and do a disservice to democracy. We must have the right to express our opinions and our judgments. In fact, we have a duty to do so.

[English]

Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: I think that, to support you, Madam Speaker, in your role of maintaining order and decorum in this chamber of sober second thought, first of all, I agree with the point of order raised by my colleague, Senator Cordy.

I also think that we should take a constructive look at the experiences of Canada’s provincial parliaments that adopted codes, rules and lists of non-parliamentary terms. I would even add that we could follow the example of the House of Commons in that regard.

Thank you.

The Hon. the Speaker: Asta Stalker, Deputy Chief Page, recently completed her Bachelor of Arts Honours in Linguistics at Carleton University and is looking forward to pursuing her common law degree at the University of Ottawa starting this fall. Asta is grateful to have had the opportunity to represent the province of Nova Scotia within the Senate Page Program for the past three years. She would like to sincerely thank the Usher of the Black Rod’s office, the honourable senators, the Senate Administration and her page colleagues for teaching her so much these past few years and making this experience unforgettable.

Thank you, Asta.