Senator Woo: Would you take a question, Senator Downe?

Senator Downe: Yes, of course.

Senator Wells: Thank you, Your Honour. I’m not on debate. I’m not questioning your hearing of the call for “no,” but I didn’t hear it. So I wanted you to ask the question again. Thank you.

Senator Gold: There’s no question there.

Again, it’s quite clear: There’s a big difference between an obligation to submit reports to Parliament — which is important and healthy and demonstrates good governance — and asking a minister to get involved if, in fact, the legislative framework doesn’t allow such involvement.

[English]

Senator Anderson: Thank you. In the Northwest Territories, where 100% of our children in care are Indigenous, and in Canada, where we have overrepresentation of Indigenous children, my question to you is: Has there been any thought given to the risk that the passage of this bill would give additional grounds for the removal of Indigenous children from their homes and communities as well as potential grounds for criminalization of Indigenous parents?

Senator Gold: — looks forward to the constructive engagement of the opposition parties to chart a path forward.

[Translation]

Senator Gignac: Thank you, Senator Gold. I understand that CPP Investments is independent of the political power, and I respect that.

In my opinion, Canadians have the right to know more about the nature of the investments that their retirement plan is making abroad. That would help us to validate not only the carbon footprint of those investments, but also their tax footprint and democratic footprint, given that they’re being made in many countries that don’t really respect the rules of law, human rights and tax fairness. Senator Gold, don’t you think it is time for the Minister of Finance to require CPP Investments and other public sector pension plans in Canada to provide more information and to be more transparent about their activities abroad?

Senator Batters: Senator Omidvar, your Recommendation 2 talks about “targeting populations that are currently overrepresented in Canada’s suicide rates . . . . ” In that short list, your committee included “persons with mental illnesses.”

Senator Batters: Senator Omidvar, your Recommendation 2 talks about “targeting populations that are currently overrepresented in Canada’s suicide rates . . . . ” In that short list, your committee included “persons with mental illnesses.”

Senator Omidvar, another fact noted in that 2010 commercial I mentioned was that 90% of those who die by suicide have mental illness, so it’s not a subset of suicide deaths in Canada. This is nearly the entire group of suicide deaths in Canada.

Why did your committee include that in your targeted demographic list?

Senator Omidvar: Senator Batters, I understand what you’re saying. Mental health is likely an underlying cause for suicides, regardless of which population they are in. I take your point, but I believe the committee did recognize the importance of mental illness as a condition, and we’ve noted it in the recommendation.

If you have not found it to your satisfaction, in retrospect, I wish you had been called as a witness; that would have helped. Hopefully, the next time we study this matter, we will remember to do so.

(On motion of Senator Martin, debate adjourned.)

On the Order:

Resuming debate on the motion of the Honourable Senator McCallum, seconded by the Honourable Senator LaBoucane-Benson:

That the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources be authorized to examine and report on the cumulative positive and negative impacts of resource extraction and development, and their effects on environmental, economic and social considerations, when and if the committee is formed; and

That the committee submit its final report no later than December 31, 2022.

Senator Downe: Yes.

Senator Plett: Again, as I said to Senator McPhedran, the courts have decided that. They have come out with it. You and I do not need to decide that. The courts have decided it for us.

Senator Plett: Again, hiding the cost. Why not just answer my question? Why not get the information? Answer the questions you are asked. You say that we are partisan and that we are frustrating to you. Yet, you refuse to answer any of our questions. You do not even come close.

On May 24, Minister Guilbeault promised the four Atlantic premiers that he would provide them with information in two weeks, leader, about how much of a burden the Prime Minister’s second carbon tax will be on their people. Those two weeks have come and gone, yet the provinces are still looking for answers from the Trudeau government. Leader, July 1 is just around the corner. Minister Guilbeault must know how much the second carbon tax will cost Canadians — or does he? Is he simply flying by the seat of his pants? Why hasn’t he had the courtesy to provide the information to the premiers, as promised? Why don’t you have the courtesy to give us the answers?

Why hasn’t your government had the sense to cancel this punitive and inflationary carbon tax?

Senator Plett: Yes.

[Translation]

Senator Wells: Understood, Your Honour. As I wait for the motion to be returned to me, I will explain to Senator Dupuis and, of course, to all our colleagues that there was agreement that the bill be referred to the Agriculture Committee as the lead committee and to the Energy Committee as the secondary committee. In the note that was given to me it said the Finance Committee, but I know there was agreement that it would not go there.

If you’d like me to read that section again, I’d be happy to do so, Your Honour. I’ll read the three sections.

That, notwithstanding any provision of the Rules, previous order or usual practice, if Bill C-234, An Act to amend the Greenhouse Gas Pollution Pricing Act, is adopted at second reading:

1.it stand referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry;

2.the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources be authorized to examine and report on the subject matter of the bill; and

3.the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry be authorized to take into account, during its consideration of the bill, any public documents and public evidence received by the committee authorized to study the subject matter of the bill, as well as any report from that committee to the Senate on the subject matter of the bill.

Colleagues, as I said, the Finance Committee was removed from the original draft, and the agreement that we have with all parties is that it be referred to the Standing Senate Committee on Agriculture and Forestry, with, obviously, assistance — more than assistance — from the Standing Senate Committee on Energy, the Environment and Natural Resources.

Senator Wallin: When we are told about increasing penalties for smugglers from 10 to 14 years, it sounds great. But today, right now, no one has ever been given the maximum penalty of even 10 years, so 14 years makes no difference. Senator Plett suggested the other day that perhaps there was one such case, but we’re not sure.

Legislation and governments must turn their attention to the people who are constantly in and out of the system, who have firearms prohibitions against them but too often get cut loose in a few hours after an arrest. Chances are the bad guys have more firearms — or access to them — and they just go get more and often end up retaliating against the people involved in their arrest or conviction.

Since 2015, the “soft-on-crime” approach has seen violent crime increase 32%, with 124,000 more violent crime incidents in 2021 compared to 2015, and gang-related homicides have increased 92%.

As we all know, crime is about people who commit the crime. Confiscating guns or knives — knives are now actually responsible for an increasing number of deaths — will not prevent this. A tire iron, a kitchen knife or a fist can kill if that’s the intent.

Government also disingenuously uses the endless horrific and deadly gun-related events south of the border to trigger the gun control debate here — a Uvalde or a Buffalo — but we’re operating in two completely different environments.

Bill C-21 does not meaningfully address the root causes of gun violence: illegal smuggling, gang violence, illegal drug trade and drug addiction. We need to focus on rehabilitation, not red tape.

Hon. Éric Forest: Colleagues, the housing crisis is very real. Affordable housing is in terribly short supply everywhere. The real estate market situation is just as bad. It’s incredibly difficult for our young people to become homeowners when the average cost of a mortgage was 34% of disposable household income in the Montreal area in 2022, compared to 20% in 2016.

According to the Canada Mortgage and Housing Corporation, we need 3.5 million units by 2030 to restore balance in the market. Quebec alone needs 1.13 million units, 620,000 more than anticipated.

To address this huge challenge, all three levels of government absolutely have to work together. It’s important to remember that the federal and provincial governments have been, for the most part, disengaged from social housing construction since the 1990s.

We know homelessness and inadequate housing are problems in big cities. That’s a tragedy in and of itself. The housing crisis is also having an economic impact on our regions. For example, in Rimouski, hundreds of students won’t be able to go to university in 2023 for lack of available housing. How can anyone attract skilled workers or health care workers when the vacancy rate is 0.4% and the housing market is overheated?

There can be no doubt that the municipal officials facing this reality on a daily basis are struggling to find solutions. The right to housing is a fundamental right. It is important that all sectors involved work together. It is also important to recognize that municipalities have a central and critical role to play because they are responsible for land use.

Beyond funding, I think it is essential, for example, that municipal taxation be amended so as to encourage urban intensification and to make it easier for municipalities to purchase land. They could then promote real estate projects for non-speculative purposes. Instead of threatening municipalities and cracking down on them, we should be supporting them.

In that sense, the new Housing Accelerator Fund announced in Budget 2022 was deployed this summer and is proving to be a first step in the right direction, particularly to induce change towards the urban intensification that is needed. With an envelope of $4 billion, this fund will finance municipal action plans to rapidly increase the housing supply. A municipality that relaxes its bylaws to promote secondary suites, for example, could receive funding, provided that this relaxation actually translates into concrete results.

Madam Speaker, we’re currently experiencing an unprecedented housing crisis. It requires an unprecedented response. Without additional funding, regulatory flexibility and the cooperation of all public and private players, this problem will never be solved.

Thank you.

[English]

Senator Gold: I thank the senator for his suggestion. I will bring it to the minister’s attention.

That being said, I’d simply like to point out that the Canada Pension Plan and the public sector pension plans are subject to their own acts of Parliament, which have been amended many times by various Parliaments.

[English]

Senator Gold: Thank you for the questions. I’ll certainly add that to the inquiries I undertake to make.

Senator Miville-Dechêne: I realize the government is considering it. Officials may be doing likewise, but governments in some jurisdictions, such as Louisiana, Germany, France and Great Britain, have taken action to protect children by passing legislation. Why is our government silent on such a serious public health issue?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your questions. As I have stated before in this chamber, there’s no doubt that the allegations that have swirled around the issue of foreign interference have caused harm and discomfort, to say the least, to members of the diaspora community. That is the reason why the government is proceeding in a prudent and responsible way. By having proper investigations by the RCMP — which works at arm’s length from the government — matters can be dealt with on the basis of facts, and not allegations and innuendoes. The Government of Canada is committed to doing the right thing for those organizations if it turns out that the allegations are unfounded. I’m not in a position right now to know, much less respond, with regard to the issue of potential remedies.

[Translation]