Senator Cardozo: Senator Gold, you talk about the transformative changes that are taking place in the economy with the environment and with climate change. At the same time, we have soaring inflation, and we have concerns about a recession.

Is this the time to make these investments, or can they not be put off for a few years, as some would argue?

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: My question is for the Government Representative, and it is regarding the budget tabled this week.

Observers are calling this a watershed budget, as it has provided significant support to green technology, taking the Canadian industry up to a new level, in part to keep up with the major incentives provided by the Inflation Reduction Act in the United States and other similar measures in Europe and other countries. There’s a great deal that Canadians can do to advance this industry for domestic purposes and build our international competitiveness in green technology.

Can you outline, Senator Gold, what the government is doing to build this Canadian industry, create jobs and fight climate change?

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: I want to start by thanking Senator Batters for that very thoughtful and emotional speech. I want to thank MPs Caputo and Arnold for having started the bill and congratulate you for carrying it on here.

I would like to think on some level that we are becoming a more enlightened society. And yet, I think, when it comes to this issue — child sex exploitation disguised as child pornography — things are getting much worse, probably, in part, because of the internet and the availability of this horrible content to a lot of people.

In your discussions with Mr. Caputo, did he feel that things are getting worse, and more of this content is being produced over time, or is humanity getting any better on this issue?

Senator Batters: I think, as I outlined in my speech, a large part of it is certainly with the proliferation of everything online. That’s what the statistics are showing. Yes, Mr. Caputo recently became an MP, but he was a prosecutor for some time before that. The statistics show that this is increasing and increasing. That’s why I said that we need to take action. This is not a huge step, but it’s one step — it’s an important step. Words matter — that’s why I think that we need to take this step at this point.

Hon. Andrew Cardozo: Thank you for your speech, Senator Manning. I found it most interesting. My sense is, as I’m listening to your criticism, I feel that your complete faith in the purity of the online world is kind of enchanting, but it’s five or seven years out of date, sir. I do share your interest in hearing from a lot of viewpoints in committee.

I want to read two lines from a report yesterday. There was a report that was issued, and some MPs from the other place hosted this session that a number of senators attended. MP James Bezan was among the people who spoke in favour of this report. I want to quote two quick lines:

Russian disinformation targeting Canadians received engagement from over 200,000 accounts on Twitter. These networks were among Canada’s most prolific and influential political communities online.

So these Russian-controlled communities are more influential than all of the newspapers in Canada that you can think of. That’s where we’re going, and that’s where things are.

My concern is that your view that government-appointed officials are non-legitimate is very troubling. Because if we were to fire all government-appointed officials, that would include all of us in this place, but it would also include every judge, regulator, police chief, fire chief. We would not have law and order. We have a system where the democratically elected governments appoint various officials and we’ve placed trust in them.

My question is this: Do you share my concern that we should perhaps have faith in at least some of our government-appointed officials or do you feel they should all be removed because they’re not legitimate?

Senator Cardozo: This is more of a statement just to thank Senator Manning. This will be the first bill that I will be involved in from beginning to end. Like you, I look forward to hearing from the diversity of opinion on this bill, and I’m sure you and I share that view. We’ll look forward to those hearings.