Senator White: Thank you for the question, senator. My perspective is that I don’t necessarily believe the legislation is going to improve upon the tools policing needs, but if we are going to go there and say the role of health care workers and public health officials is so important that we will take care of them in a better and different way, then we ought to protect them from the intimidation we have seen them receive at their homes.

At the end of the day, I’m not sure it will help, but if we think it will help, then we should actually go as far as we can.

Senator White: I will.

Hon. Vernon White: Therefore, honourable senators, in amendment, I move:

That Bill C-3 be not now read a third time, but that it be amended in clause 2, on page 1, by replacing line 11 with the following:

Hon. Vernon White: Honourable senators, I want to congratulate Senator Yussuff on sponsoring this bill and for the work he has done.

I want to be clear that the rationale behind the formulation of Bill C-3 has my support, but I want to raise a few concerns I have with the process by which we have gotten to this point, and I will offer an amendment that I believe is needed that might allow the police to act on offences under the Criminal Code of Canada that would be brought about as a result of this legislation.

Along with the other things we’ve heard about this bill, there is a piece of legislation that includes an offence with a sentence of up to 10 years in jail added to the Criminal Code of Canada. This was walked through the other place, where most, if not all, of their time was spent on the social and labour aspects of the bill. In fact, the bill was seen by the Human Resources Committee and the majority, if not all, of the review and amendments came in relation to sick days that would be provided to certain employees. On its face, that appears to be an appropriate and important social policy piece for Canadians who live and work without such coverage.

But we should ask ourselves this first: Why would two such very different pieces of legislation — sick days for employees, covered by labour law, and Criminal Code changes and serious jail time for those convicted — be put into the same legislation? It is beyond me. The truth is that there is absolutely no connection between these two important pieces of legislation.

We were asked to look at this legislation as a pre-study and, appropriately, we split the bill to ensure that our Social Affairs Committee would look at the human resources portion and the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee would pre-study the portions that were directly related to additional offences and sentencing provisions under the Criminal Code. What happened next should cause all of us to think twice the next time we are asked to do a pre-study.

I will only focus on the portions of this legislation in which I participated, since the bill as passed in the other place has never gone to any committee of the Senate. In relation to the changes under the Criminal Code and our pre-study, we met and heard from one witness, the Minister of Justice. During that meeting, the minister received many questions about the necessity of the legislation and questions regarding why the police and Crown were not using the Criminal Code interventions already available relating to intimidation, harassment, threatening, et cetera. In fact, I would hope that we could have asked those questions of the police and the Crown. In fact, after the one meeting, many stated that we could look forward to hearing from other witnesses when the bill arrived to answer questions around whether new offences were needed. Maybe we needed changes to the Criminal Code offences that are already in place to deal with the exact situations brought forward to protect health care workers and officials.

Maybe the bill is needed. Certainly, something must be done, without question, but possibly we could receive suggestions from other legal experts and those impacted by the actual events described, like health workers themselves; the police; and the Crown, which we are arguing in the legislation does not have the tools already. I do not for one minute question the importance of our health care workers and that actions must be taken to protect them. I also suggest we must do it correctly.

Regardless of the pushback that might have been received, the minister was adamant that the legislation was needed to show support for the people who are doing the health care work in our communities. That’s a good argument, but what about the legislation itself?

The minister was asked specifically about the breadth of the new offences and the coverage that would be found by expanding offences in the bill. The following exchange between Senator Simons and the minister, I would argue, clarifies the concern I have. The senator said:

And someone at their home? Because we’ve heard stories of health care workers being threatened online, protesters coming to houses, but also, more importantly, people posting their photographs and that kind of thing.

Minister Lametti answered:

It definitely applies online, and it was specifically conceived to apply to online.

The minister went on to say:

Given what I said before, if a doctor or nurse is providing health care services through their home at a clinic, say in a remote location or something like that, it would definitely, I think, be covered. If it were merely the health care provider’s residence, then probably would have to resort to . . . intimidation that is under the code.

— in other words, to the offences that already exist, this legislation wouldn’t pertain.

So the concern I have is that this new offence, while it might, in fact, be needed, does not cover the residences of health care workers and public health officials. It does not cover the specific incidents we have seen occurring across the nation in places like B.C., Saskatchewan, Ontario and, I believe, Prince Edward Island over the past months where public health officials, in particular, are intimidated, harassed and even threatened in their own homes.

While I am not convinced the legislation will provide much more than what the police already have available to them, the message might well be very important to those who would participate in such events. It is important that we tell the harassers, the intimidators and those who would threaten health care workers that the Government of Canada will do what it takes to support those workers when we can.

But should it not also be important that we are doing this in the right way?

Think about this. One witness was heard from on an extremely important area that will add a criminal offence to the penalties up to 10 years in jail. While I’m greatly concerned by the process that was followed, and I accept responsibility, as I sit on both the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee and its steering committee, for allowing it to continue that way, I would argue that we should, could and must do better. We must ensure that these bills are fully reviewed and investigated.

I was concerned during the minister’s appearance that many committee members had questions about the necessity of specific sections concerning new Criminal Code offences. I admit I was moved by the vision of health care workers being harassed and intimidated, which I have watched over the last number of months. I also believe that health care workers need to feel at least as protected by legislation when they are not at work, particularly in their homes.

There were many other areas where consideration could have been given for amendments, had we had the bill in its entirety after being passed in the House of Commons, such things as the seizure of vehicles used in a criminal offence and immediate fine systems — anything where immediacy can be acted upon in relation to offenders.

It is extremely difficult to deal with when we don’t do clause by clause, and we didn’t have the bill after it passed in the House. That is why I think it is important that this legislation clearly covers health care workers regardless of where they are. That is why I’m asking to amend this legislation.

My amendment will correct the area of weakness identified by the minister, in his own words, when he said that it would not cover serious incidents that may occur in the private residences of health care workers.

Senator White: Thank you, senator. In fact, the Standing Senate Committee on Legal and Constitutional Affairs has in the past raised the overlapping of criminal offences — that we need to stop building on the existing Criminal Code and start building a new Criminal Code.

I’m always back to the same thing: If we believe that this will help, if you would vote for this legislation, then the amendment will make it better.

I will vote for this legislation, as much as I’m concerned about the limited amount of time, if any, that we actually gave to make it better legislation, like some immediate responses. I think if we are concerned enough to say the legislation is important, then the amendment will make it a better piece of legislation and protect health care workers. It will send a message to those people — which I think the minister is trying to do — not to show up at someone’s house, that you will be arrested, that you will be dragged off, because it is that serious.

I’m always back to the same point. I feel that this discussion of whether it’s necessary should have taken place in committee, but it didn’t. Instead, it’s taking place here in third reading.

Senator White: Absolutely.

Senator White: Always.

Senator White: Tomorrow is not Christmas. The reality is that amending this bill does not mean it does not get dealt with. As we know, everything can be done virtually. It could be done later on today or on Monday or Tuesday. There is no immediacy for us to even pass a bill, other than the fact that we have been told there is immediacy. In fact, last week the minister said that they welcomed amendments from the House and the Senate if deemed necessary for this legislation to pass. I’m arguing that if this legislation is necessary, this amendment is important.

On the first point, I haven’t looked at what other provinces have done, but if it’s in relation to the Criminal Code, unlike other jurisdictions such as Australia, we only have one; the federal one. So if we’re going to have Criminal Code offences, we have one opportunity and location and that’s here. Thank you.