Senator Carignan: Mr. Leader, I would like to quote paragraph 57 of the 2014 Reference re Senate Reform, in which the Supreme Court quotes itself in the Upper House Reference. Paragraph 57 reads as follows:

[i]n creating the Senate in the manner provided in the Act, it is clear that the intention was to make the Senate a thoroughly independent body which could canvass dispassionately the measures of the House of Commons

When we do pre-studies, we are studying measures drafted by public servants, not measures adopted by the House of Commons, but that is not our role. You are absolutely right when you say that, if we follow my logic, which is based on the fundamental reasons the Senate was created, we would not do pre-studies. I completely agree.

The Hon. the Speaker: Just before you answer, Senator Gold, I will remind honourable senators that we are debating Motion No. 42, which is about whether there will be a pre-study. We are not debating the content of Bill C-11. We do have a fair amount of leeway when it comes to asking questions, however, so I’ll leave it to you, Senator Gold.

Senator Gold: Senator Richards, we are here debating the pre-study. Your concerns are legitimate ones. I think all colleagues look forward to the contributions you can make, both at committee and during debate.

Hon. Frances Lankin: Senator Gold, thank you for your speech. I found it interesting. I look forward to hearing the other speeches, because I have my own analysis of what is behind the opposition to this. I won’t share it so as not to provoke people, and although I’m a bit bewildered, I will listen carefully.

I personally support this and believe that we should undertake the pre-study. It is a very controversial bill with a lot of supporters and a lot of detractors, so there is much to learn and refresh our minds on.

My question to you is: When the pre-study is finished, if the bill hasn’t arrived, and it arrives late, the preoccupation of the Senate as of late has been to talk to you about insufficient time to deal with bills. For me, a pre-study helps that situation, but it doesn’t alleviate the potential problem. I’m looking for some assurances from you that if the committee feels amendments and other things in the House of Commons mean that we have to dig back into some of these items, and we require the time to do it, will we be faced with rushing in order to get it done before the summer recess?

Hon. Jim Quinn: Senator Gold, regardless of the outcome of the vote on a pre-study for Bill C-11 — and, I would add, Bill C-13 — would you agree to make arrangements for members of the Transport and Communications Commitee and, I would add, as well, members of the Official Languages Committee to receive, when we return from next week’s recess, a copy of the technical briefing binders and any other briefing material supplied by government when reviewing legislation? I would find it vastly more valuable than that of a technical brief and a PowerPoint deck. If the main point of a pre-study is to be informed, why wouldn’t the government provide committee members with this information, regardless of the outcome of these pre-study votes?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, I listened carefully to your case for asking for a pre-study on Bill C-11. I must say that this cannot possibly have been your idea because I know you to be a reasonable man.

Pre-study in the Senate is not a tool to be used lightly. It is a tool that is available to us when there is an urgent public need or when it is of urgent public interest. I haven’t heard anywhere in your statement any compelling case that Bill C-11 somehow responds to some kind of urgent public interest.

My understanding and recollection is that this government received a mandate in the fall of 2021. It recalled Parliament prior to the end of 2021 — an urgent, pressing public issue that they tabled the legislation over in the House only at the end of February.

Furthermore, I also want to highlight that we are in a situation right now in the other place where — for all intents and purposes — for the last little while, the government has a majority parliamentary standing in the House where, again, if a bill were of such urgent public concern, we would have seen the House deal with that issue urgently.

When we have had pre-studies of bills in the past, they have usually been supply bills or they have been in response to an urgent public need that deals with a crisis and we needed to get monies out the door quickly. The government makes a compelling case, and usually both houses, in those instances, acquiesce, take on our responsibilities and exercise that tool of pre-study.

The government has been in power for seven years, with a majority government for four and a half. They didn’t table legislation dealing with this telecommunications issue until the fall of 2020. Now, they are tabling legislation knowing full well that there was no way we would deal with this legislation in the manner that we had highlighted at the end of the last debate on this issue.

There was a consensus among all our colleagues that this bill needed a long, in-depth study. It was a controversial bill that satisfied certain sectors in our society and dissatisfied others, requiring a fulsome, robust debate and discussion.

For all intents and purposes, we have no more than three to four sitting weeks. We are all well aware of the challenges we face in terms of resources and the capacities of our committees to be able to sit more than they are currently. Therefore, the question I have is — knowing full well that this bill has what is far from consensus from stakeholders in our society — do you believe, pre-study or not, that this government will somehow get this bill out of the House of Commons and the Senate before we adjourn for the summer?

The Hon. the Speaker: Just before you answer, Senator Gold, I will remind honourable senators that we are debating Motion No. 42, which is about whether there will be a pre-study. We are not debating the content of Bill C-11. We do have a fair amount of leeway when it comes to asking questions, however, so I’ll leave it to you, Senator Gold.