Senator Gold: Access to justice has been an issue of concern — and properly so — ever since I was a law student so many years ago. Much needs to be done, as we have discussed in this chamber many times.

The best answer I have is to rely upon the work of the Legal and Constitutional Affairs Committee, which heard the witnesses, which considered your amendment and others that were proposed and — for all the reasons that were known to the committee — decided not to accept the amendment.

For the reasons that I outlined, that is the government’s position as well.

Senator Gold: Thank you. I did make inquiries and, no, I have not received a response back. Therefore I am not in a position to answer the question, but I will add it to my follow-up.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): In order to answer both aspects of your question, I will have to make inquiries and will report back.

Senator Gold: Thank you, senator. No, I do not know. My understanding is that they are running pilots and tests while, of course, the other system is still functioning as the pay system. I do not know at what stage the transition will be possible. I’ll make inquiries.

[Translation]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question. Unfortunately, I didn’t understand your last sentence. Would you kindly repeat it?

Senator Gold: Again, I do not know what steps the government will be taking, but I would assume that these steps will be the fruit of discussions and consultations with provinces and territories, which have primary constitutional responsibility and jurisdiction over the collection, management and protection of health data of citizens. I will try to get an answer and report back.

[Translation]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. I regret that you have not received an answer. I will certainly follow up to see whether it dropped off the list as a result of circumstances. I will make inquiries as to your question and report back on the status of the government’s response to those recommendations.

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. All I can tell you is that the government is working on it, both at the political level and at the level of deputy ministers, public servants and employees.

[English]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Listen, this is a serious question and I will try to give a serious answer. I don’t understand all the reasons behind this problem. I am aware of it. I answered you based on the information I had. As for why things have not improved as quickly as we would have liked, I don’t have an answer to that question. I will try to find out. I’m inclined to say that when a solution is implemented it can take time for things to improve and start moving.

In all honesty, I don’t have the information to answer your questions about why there are still delays.

Senator Gold: I will certainly make inquiries, because this is the first I have heard of this. Forgive me for not being familiar with or a regular reader of this newspaper.

Again, I will have to make inquiries before I can make any comments, including a response to your last question.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question. I am grateful for the respect the government has for the work of the Senate. I am very proud of the work that we have accomplished reviewing government bills in the Senate.

That being said, I believe that we need to strike the right balance. As many have already mentioned, it is also important to have more of the testimony and analysis done at the other place.

This is pure speculation on my part, honourable colleagues, because I have no idea what is going to happen to us when we return from the break. However, I am sure that when the Senate receives bills, either after they have been studied at the other place or at the beginning of the parliamentary process, we will continue to do the work we are known for, and rightly so, in the Senate.

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. I don’t really have an answer for you, but I do have a comment. The situation is unacceptable. What you described is Kafkaesque.

That said, the government is doing its best to fix the problem. There are obviously still issues, and the only thing I can tell you is that I am going to talk to my counterparts in government again and ask them for information, which I will share with you here. I would also stress the importance of fixing this problem as soon as possible.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Well, that is quite an accusation. I have no knowledge of this story or any of the facts. I am not in a position to comment at all.

Senator Gold: If I understood the question correctly, I do indeed find that interesting. We are, for example, debating Bill S-5 on the environment. It is a very important bill. We have done very good work in committee. We will see how the House of Commons receives the work we have done, and we will continue the debate this week.

As I said in response to your question, it is normal for us to receive bills after they have been studied and debated at the other place. In other words, there is room for both ways of legislating.

[English]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): The short answer is, Senator Plett — and thank you for your question — there clearly is inconsistent information being provided both, as you described, at the site in Laval and, perhaps, elsewhere. The information I have was the answer that I gave you the other day, and that’s the only information I have.

It is a deplorable situation. I will try to find out, to the best of my ability, what’s happening in that particular centre. It is a busy one, but it is not the only one that is plagued with problems. I’ll do my best to sort it out if I can.

Senator Gold: I will certainly make inquiries as to the specific question with which you ended your comments.

Again, I will repeat: This is an unacceptable situation. The government is doing what it can. It is devoting the resources it has to resolve it. One hopes that the situation will improve such that Canadians can travel abroad, or receive their passports for whatever purposes they need them, as quickly as possible.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question, senator. The government does recognize that these longstanding issues have been causing stress and hardship for employees and their families. The government is committed to fixing this. I’m advised that the government has recently seen an increase in new transactions received at the pay centre, though the majority are processed within service standards. Pay teams prioritize cases with financial implications for employees.

The government has taken significant steps to help stabilize the Phoenix pay system and continues to work with all stakeholders, including unions and employees, on the way forward. To be sure, there is still work to do. However, the government continues to progress toward pay stabilization to ensure that federal employees across the country are paid accurately and on time. The government continues to focus on addressing outstanding transactions while also working toward processing new transactions within service standards 95% of the time.

Finally, the government is also working toward the implementation of the next-generation pay system. This includes running pilot projects and tests to ensure the new system will provide pay to public servants accurately and on time, which is their right and due. This will take time, and Minister Tassi is focused on moving it forward.

Senator M. Deacon: Thank you for that response.

Regarding the last part to do with the new system and implementation, piloting, testing and starting, could you please elaborate? I think I heard most of what you said, but I believe the new system is running in parallel while finishing off the old system. Do you have a sense of, with fair training and pilot time, how long it might be before the new system is running independently of the old?

Senator Gold: I don’t have an answer to your question. I will add it to my list of questions for the government.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you, senator, for the question. I’m not sure that I would agree with you — although you are certainly more of an expert in this area than I — that our agricultural sector is underperforming. I think many factors have conspired to affect the industry over the last number of years. This includes the usual suspects these days, if you will: COVID-19, but also floods and drought.

However, the agricultural sector has demonstrated great resiliency. The government has always been there and will continue to be there to support our producers and processors in times of need.

Budget 2022 says the following:

Federal, provincial, and territorial governments will work together over the coming year to renew the programs under the next agricultural policy framework that begins in 2023.

Colleagues, there is strong political will to renew the partnership and to position the agricultural sector for continued success over the next five years.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. The government is of the view that the labels that provide information to consumers are an important tool so that Canadians can make choices as to how they want to eat and to understand better the consequences of the choices they make.

The government will continue to work with experts in the scientific community, but also with stakeholders to make sure that the information that is communicated to Canadians is appropriate.

These labels work. For example, in Chile, which introduced labelling, they saw major improvements in healthy eating in the country just a year and a half after the implementation.

I cannot generalize about every household in Canada, but I can assure you that in our household we continue to eat beef but over the years we have moderated our consumption of certain foods and replaced them with others out of consideration for our own health. In my household we continue to enjoy beef, but we have also made choices based upon what we now understand is best for our health, in terms of immediate and long-term effects.

The approach that the government is taking with regard to beef and pork is exactly that: to provide Canadians with the information that they need and deserve to make the free choices that they can and should make in terms of what they want to eat.