Questions?

I always appreciate hearing the NDP House leader speak. I’m always impressed how he can do it with no notes for such a long time.

But I do appreciate the context because there is a lot of rhetoric when we speak, and we all do it a little bit. But time and time again, we’ll hear about how the NDP hates natural gas. That’s not what the topic is. I appreciate the context of natural gas and what it will mean 40 years from now, and that really is the concern on this side of the House that we have with this bill.

We are not confident that natural gas will be as popular 40 years from now—not that it will be completely gone, but people will be transitioning over in the same way that the member from Carleton talked about propane and not having access to it. There may be better technology in the future. When I first got my house it was hydro for heat. It was incredibly expensive, and we barely used it. We used anything else. So, why would the government want to have this amortization over 40 years for a company that makes billions of dollars?

I actually enjoy talking to the Minister of Energy. Actually, it’s not that hard for me to be in the NDP caucus. It’s much easier than it sometimes would be being in a caucus where you introduce legislation and then rescind it, and then introduce legislation again and then rescind it, and then introduce it again and then rescind it.

Yes, we need reliable energy sources. We need a reliable grid. But I question, again, having a 40-year amortization on parts of the grid that might only be feasible for 10 years, and whether that’s good business for the people buying those homes.

It was brought up that in Europe, they’ve already transitioned. My family is from Holland. Even before gas went up, it was already illegal to hook up to natural gas, because they recognized it long before we did.

The question is, this bill doesn’t really address that. This bill just overrules the decision. That is the issue. That is the issue. I think we can all agree, and it’s not very often we all agree in this House—very rarely. I don’t think anyone would disagree that a 40-year horizon for natural gas installations for home heating makes sense. I don’t think anybody disagrees with that.

But I will let you know that we’re getting a lot less calls for natural gas right now than we were two, three years ago—a lot less calls because the price of natural gas has gone up and a lot of people are switching to heat pumps, and heat pumps aren’t the total answer in northern Ontario.

Let’s be clear. I’m not going to sugar-coat it, but we’re getting a lot less calls for natural gas now than we were two or three years ago, but a lot of those are for industrial or farm applications, and that’s a totally—

I want to thank the member opposite for his question. I’ve got the OEB’s report on the natural gas expansion program here on my computer, and it shows that Charlton and Dack, Harley, Latchford and Timiskaming, Kincardine, Larder Lake, Virginiatown and Kerns have all asked for natural gas expansion in their communities. So I guess I’d like to ask you if—you’re certainly saying it today—you wish to stop your constituents from heating their homes with natural gas even though they are asking for it.

Now, fast-forward to today, when a headline in the Windsor Star from—this is going back a bit, to March 25, 2014: “900 Riverside Families Jolted by Huge Electric Bills.” They were reporting costs of over a thousand dollars a month because of electric heating. The decision to not put natural gas connections into that neighbourhood was fatal for the affordability of this neighbourhood, even though the express intent was to have an affordable community.

I could talk about this situation for, really, the remainder of the time, but honestly, I think we’ve had enough debate. So, Speaker, I move that the question now be put.

There is a need for natural gas in the province. Is there a need for consumers to pay on behalf of Enbridge, a multinational monopoly? I don’t think so. Changing the amortization to 40 years is a gift to Enbridge and also ensuring that consumers are—if they had followed through with the OEB ruling, they would have saved a billion dollars over four years for consumers. Instead, now consumers are not given a choice whether they hook up to natural gas or whether they can choose, if they so choose, to have electric heat pumps—no choice, and they’re stuck with the bill that developers don’t want to pay.

My question to you is, why? Why would this government override an independent regulatory decision in favour of a multinational corporation and give consumers absolutely no choice?

I want to thank the member opposite for his comments. I’d like to be clear on a couple of points before I pose my question. First of all, the decision and what this bill is proposing is not to change. What it’s doing is pausing the decision of the OEB, because already, in its regulations, it goes for a 40-year horizon. So we’re not changing any of that.

I’m on natural gas, and I, like all my neighbours who are on natural gas, share those costs over a 40-year period. The decision—and, I think, the dissent by Commissioner Duff—doesn’t say that we shouldn’t be shortening the window. What she does say, though, is that we’re shortening it from 40 years to zero years, and that’s no ramp at all. That’s no amortization period.

So what she’s suggesting is that we look and have hearings in which we examine the nature of the implications of shortening that window. And so, my question to the member opposite: Does he not agree that that is an important discussion to have to prevent stranded assets, but also to allow an on-ramp to prevent barriers for homebuyers getting a home and having reliable, safe heat?

Mr. Dowie has moved that the question be now put. I’m satisfied there has been sufficient debate to allow this question to be put to the House.

Is it the pleasure of the House that the motion carry? I heard a no.

All those in favour of the motion that the question be now put, please say “aye.”

All those opposed to the motion that the question be now put, please say “nay.”

In my opinion, the ayes have it.

A recorded vote being required, it will be deferred to the next instance of deferred votes.

Vote deferred.

Mr. Saunderson moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr40, An Act to revive 1000151830 Ontario Inc.

Second reading agreed to.

Mr. Saunderson moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr40, An Act to revive 1000151830 Ontario Inc.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

Ms. Scott moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr41, An Act to revive Qui Vive Island Club Inc.

Second reading agreed to.

Ms. Scott moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr41, An Act to revive Qui Vive Island Club Inc.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

Ms. Hogarth moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr43, An Act to revive Richard Crosby Investments Limited.

Second reading agreed to.

Ms. Hogarth moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr43, An Act to revive Richard Crosby Investments Limited.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

Mr. Harden moved second reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr44, An Act to revive 2038778 Ontario Ltd.

Second reading agreed to.

Mr. Harden moved third reading of the following bill:

Bill Pr44, An Act to revive 2038778 Ontario Ltd.

Be it resolved that the bill do now pass and be entitled as in the motion.

Third reading agreed to.

Report continues in volume B.