44th Parl. 1st Sess.
April 16, 2024 10:00AM
- Apr/16/24 11:09:21 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, those were interesting comments from the Minister of Health. He talked about the incredible results that he thinks he is getting with these new programs. Oddly enough, the backlogs for care in Canada have never been worse: It is 27 and a half weeks from the time of seeing a primary care provider to getting treatment from a specialist, the worst it has been in 30 years.
With regard to the Canada dental care program, he wants to talk about how many people have signed up for it. Although we know he will go on with the fantastical speech he has made here in his incredibly fact-devoid fantasy, the question that would remain for his great dental care program is this: How many dentists have actually signed up for the program?
Very specifically, how many dentists in Atlantic Canada and, specifically, how many in each province of Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Newfoundland and P.E.I. have signed up for the dental care program?
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- Apr/16/24 11:10:32 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it was true in the 1960s and it is true now, that there are purveyors of doom.
There are those who try to push people to despair. When one does not believe in a public health care system, what does one want people to do? One wants people to despair, because nothing comes from despair. All change comes from looking at what is hard and true and driving for change.
Let us talk very specifically. Every health care system in the world is facing extraordinary backlogs as a result of COVID and stress on their system. It is a question how we meet that. These 13 agreements and these investments of $200 billion are demonstrating that we are meeting that challenge. In these plans, in articulated detail, is exactly how we are going to get to the health system Canadians deserve.
With respect to dental care, we have thousands and thousands of dentists who have signed up across the country.
Secondly, just on Thursday, I met with the dental associations, and I can tell the House that we are down to a couple of minor issues and that I am extraordinarily confident that over the next number of months, we will see virtually every dental office in the country participating in this program.
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- Apr/16/24 11:17:55 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member and my friend for an important question. I have been so encouraged by the conversations that I am having with every provincial health minister across the country, regardless of their stripe. Whether I am talking to Everett Hindley in Saskatchewan or Uzoma in Manitoba, the conversations have been incredibly productive and positive. They are focused on how we get people the care they need.
I would challenge the Conservative opposition. They talk about wanting to destroy dental, how they do not want pharmacare and how they are going to block the national food program. They tell people not to dream about it and that they cannot have it. They tell people not to dream that they can get medication. They say not to dream that they can have dental care. The Conservatives are going to make sure it does not work. They are going to call dentists and scare them. They are going to give them false information. They are going to work against people getting care, for political reasons.
I think we should listen very carefully to what the Conservatives say. Are they asking questions about how they can help or how they can ensure that people get dental care? Are they asking questions about the problems that dentists have and how we can help fix them because they want to make sure people get dental care? No, they are saying to give up and have despair, and that they cannot do it. Shame on them for it.
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- Apr/16/24 11:47:52 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, in relation to the question my colleague from Cumberland—Colchester asked the Minister of Health, I have a letter from a local dentist in my area and I am wondering if the member could refer to any similarities between the Canadian dental care plan and what is being rolled out in the pharmacare plan.
This dentist says that it may place our oral dental care system in serious jeopardy. He goes on to say that it is deeply flawed and stands to jeopardize our entire established system and how they deliver care to their patients. He said that only 70% of dentists have said they are likely to participate as a provider in the CDCP program. He went on to say that patients are going to be surprised to learn that dental care will not be free, they may not be able to choose their preferred dentists and nothing has been done to protect access to third party insurance.
I would ask my colleague from Cumberland—Colchester if he can outline more than he did in his speech, which was a great speech, by the way, any similarities he can see between this plan and the pharmacare plan.
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- Apr/16/24 11:49:00 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, we know that the NDP-Liberal coalition wants to create federated programs that are going to reduce choices for Canadians and push those who do have access to the beloved care they now have into programs that will cover much fewer medications. For instance, we know at the current time that public programs cover about half of the medications that privately funded plans do. That will reduce choice for Canadians.
What incentive will there be for employers to continue to provide plans for their hard-working employees in the future if a federated plan with a few old medications on it is what is being offered “for free” on the backs of all Canadians? Of course, we know that does not account for the bloated bureaucracy that it will take.
As I mentioned, just to create a new Canada drug agency, in and of itself, will cost at least $90 million. Even though my great colleague suggested that perhaps 70% of dentists may support it, we know from the figures now that only less than 10% of the 26,500 dentists in Canada have signed up for this program, which is severely limiting access for Canadians. Indeed, last week, in one day, four great supporters in Cumberland—Colchester showed up at my office and said they have a shiny card for the dental care program, but they cannot find a dentist to provide the care because of the terrible nature of this program, which was created without consultation with the great dentists who provide care to millions of Canadians across this country.
It is a shame. Liberals should be ashamed of their program and should be ashamed of the fact that they want to introduce another bloated federated program on the backs of hard-working Canadians.
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- Apr/16/24 1:06:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am very pleased to stand today and speak in support of this bill to bring in the first stages of national pharmacare to this country. Pharmacare has figured as a commitment in the Liberal platform. I would go further and say that it is an extension, really, of an arc of social justice that began many decades ago with hospital insurance. Before we had medicare, we had hospital insurance. If someone went to the hospital they did not have to pay, but then they would have to pay if they went to see their physician. Then, of course, we brought in medicare.
On that score, I would like to come back to something that the member for Cumberland—Colchester said that made me think back to 50 or 60 years ago. He said, in reference to dental care, that the plan for dental care would result in the dentist focusing more on the relationship with the payer, the insurance companies, than on the relationship with the patient.
That was one of the main criticisms of medicare in 1970 when the federal and provincial governments were implementing medicare. At the time, many medical professionals, doctors, said it would not be good because it would bureaucratize their profession as they would have to deal with government bureaucracy and that would leave less time to deal with patients. In the final analysis, we saw that it was a more efficient system. Doctors know that they will get paid. They do not have to hire a bill collection agency to collect medical bills and so on. It is funny that we are going back to arguments that were raised 70 years ago when there was opposition, initially, to implementing medicare in this country.
I would like to go back, for a moment, to the pandemic, because I think it is important. The pandemic was a watershed moment in so many ways. I think it will take decades of analysis and doctoral theses, maybe, to really understand how the pandemic changed our world. However, the pandemic did something for public policy that I am not sure we think enough about. It showed us that we can deliver support to citizens in ways that we never thought possible. If one had asked the government before the pandemic to offer support directly to Canadians through the CRA, through payments based on attestation, one would have been shut down right away. The bureaucrats and politicians would have said that it was absolutely impossible.
We proved that it was possible in a crisis to bring financial support to Canadians in a very streamlined way, in a very direct way and in a very timely way. I think that gave confidence to government that it could deliver other services in a very efficient way. Dental care is one example of that. I would bet that if someone had said we could deliver dental care directly through dentists with an insurance company making payments to dental offices and so forth, people would have said we could not do that as lots of bureaucracy would be needed. However, the pandemic showed us that we can do things directly and efficiently.
That brings me to pharmacare and this initial building block of a national pharmacare system. We have heard the Conservatives raise the spectre of a national pharmacare system requiring immense amounts of bureaucracy, but we have learned from the past that these kinds of services with this kind of financial support can be delivered rather effectively.
Now, we know that provincial health care systems across this country are bogged down in bureaucracy. We have seen some of the tragic consequences of that, but when we are talking about the delivery of drugs, each province has a very efficient and effective pharmacy network that already liaises with governments and with private insurance companies, such that when one gets a prescription, the pharmacist already knows that one is covered by a private insurer, or if one is not covered by a private insurer, they know that one is covered by the government system. There is already a very efficient infrastructure in place to deliver national pharmacare with the help of the infrastructure set up within the provinces, so I do not believe this idea that national pharmacare is going to create a heavy burden of bureaucracy.
The member for Cumberland—Colchester talked about the so-called blue seal program that his party is putting forward as a way of recognizing credentials for foreign-trained doctors. Our government is already doing that. Taking away from the fact that it is already provincial jurisdiction to recognize credentials, we do not hear any objections from the other side about invading provincial jurisdiction when we talk about recognizing credentials. The recognition of credentials is, in fact, something that is done by provincial colleges of medical professionals. All of a sudden, the invasion of provincial jurisdiction does not seem to enter into the picture.
However, the point is that, if we want to do that kind of thing, we are still going to need some bureaucracy. We are going to have to have some government employees who are coordinating something. That is just the way it is in modern governments. Sometimes I fear that the Conservatives do not understand the realities of modern governments, but I will not get into all of that right now.
In terms of the role of the federal government when it comes to pharmaceutical products, let me go back to the CERB. It is conventional wisdom that it is the provincial governments that deliver social assistance in this country, yet during the pandemic I did not hear any provincial governments complaining that we were providing CERB to citizens in need. I did not hear it then. All of a sudden, it is back in the picture.
Back to pharmaceuticals, the federal government is deeply involved in the pharmaceutical industry. It does inspections of pharmaceutical companies. The Patented Medicine Prices Review Board has a role in determining the prices of pharmaceuticals. Health Canada is involved in approving drugs for safety and medical devices. This idea that there is this clean-cut distinction between the federal government and the provinces when it comes to those kinds of products is, I think, a bit of a stretch.
That being said, I am not in the government but I think I can speak on behalf of the government. The federal government is not seeking to manage more things. We have lots of responsibilities. If the provinces can do something well, why not? If the provinces can achieve the goals that we have set, based on what Canadians want, then why not? The federal government is not seeking to manage all aspects of pharmacare, but I think that we are responding to the wishes and priorities of Canadians in proposing this plan.
I would like to come back to another argument that was raised by the Conservatives in this debate. Somehow, in a kind of twisted logic, it was suggested that national pharmacare is going to cause inflation. I do not understand that, but I could be wrong. Maybe I have a blind spot and I do not see all of the logic of the argument, but how can providing free drugs to Canadians who need drugs fuel pharmaceutical price inflation?
Pharmacare is an affordability measure. The Conservatives claim to care so much about affordability, but every time we want to do something on affordability, whether child care, pharmacare or dental care, they vote against it. I do not think they care about affordability.
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- Apr/16/24 3:07:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the costly NDP-Liberal coalition has announced another poorly conceived federal idea. Its dental care debacle is failing Canadians.
I have one simple question. How many dentists in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I. have signed up for the dental care debacle?
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- Apr/16/24 3:07:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is great news, because, unlike the member opposite, we are working with dental providers and we are opening up a new portal, which means that in order to participate all they have to do is accept that dental card and provide service.
The dentists who I am talking to, as we work through these issues in the negotiation, are extremely excited to do what the member is not, which is to make sure that every Canadian from coast to coast to coast gets oral health care. That means that 1.8 million seniors and soon nine million Canadians will have the oral health care they need.
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- Apr/16/24 3:08:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, interestingly enough, the Minister of Health of the NDP-Liberal government has been singing the praises, in photo ops, of this program for months now. Their plan is lacking and it is failing Canadians.
I have one simple question, once again, for the minister. How many dentists in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick and P.E.I. have signed up for the botched dental care announcement? I will actually give him the answer. It is eight out of 1,107.
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