SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 290 - Mar/18/24

Mr. Mike Morrice (Kitchener Centre, GP)

Mar/18/24 4:52:34 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, when we look at the terms of the motion on the floor of the House, we see a number of measures that are really critical actions for the government to take to work towards a lasting peace. One of those measures that the member for Burnaby South, the leader of the NDP, mentioned was an end to the occupation of Palestinian territory. Can the member speak more about why this is a critical measure as part of the package of calls that the Government of Canada should be making to work towards true peace?

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh

Mar/18/24 4:53:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in order to achieve peace, we need to create the conditions for peace, and one of the ongoing violations is the ongoing occupation of Palestinian land. To achieve a two-state solution, we need to ensure that we recognize that the two states have the right to exist and that they have the right to self-determination. We also need to ensure that the occupation stops so they can move forward towards a peaceful solution.

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Mr. Simon-Pierre Savard-Tremblay (Saint-Hyacinthe—Bagot, BQ)

Mar/18/24 4:53:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to repeat that we are in favour of the motion and want it to pass, but I have a question. In terms of the message we are sending to the international community, it would undoubtedly be much more desirable for us to adopt the motion than the opposite. However, what message does it send if they see that the House had to force the Canadian government's hand to arrive at such a position? If we are sending the message that the government was so unmotivated that Parliament had to force its hand, it seems to me that this undermines the message. What does my colleague think?

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh

Mar/18/24 4:54:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is disappointing that Canada's Liberal government has not taken a stand to promote peace and justice. I believe that when the government does not take the proper stand or do the necessary work, it is our job as members of the House of Commons to force the government to do it. That is why we have moved this motion to offer a path to a peaceful and just solution.

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Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP)

Mar/18/24 4:54:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, prior to his time as a parliamentarian, the hon. leader of the NDP was a lawyer. He has spoken about the preconditions for peace, and everybody would know that the most important precondition for peace is justice. Could the hon. member perhaps reflect on the importance of all nations' having accountability under international law, particularly as it relates to the International Court of Justice, and what Canada's role is in ensuring that those international norms are upheld, not just for Palestinians and the question of Palestine, but also internationally in all conflicts?

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Mr. Jagmeet Singh

Mar/18/24 4:55:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the reason why one of the issues we raised in our motion is respect for the ruling of the International Court of Justice is that in order to build a society, a world, where people are treated with respect and dignity, and where that dignity and respect are protected by law, we need to ensure that the law is applied. There is a deep concern about erosion of trust for institutions and erosion of trust for a rule of law based on justice, equality and equity, which is further eroded when nations like Canada do not respect the decision and do not respect the ruling. We saw from the very weak response of the Liberal government that it did not reflect the gravity of the ICJ's ruling and did not show a commitment to following through, which is why we included that in the motion. We believe that all people in the world deserve rights, dignity and respect, and that these should be upheld and protected for all.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice (Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie, NDP)

Mar/18/24 4:56:36 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is with deep emotion and a sense of responsibility to history that I rise today to speak to the important motion that my party has moved in the House. History is dramatically unfolding before our very eyes. It is a bloody chapter filled with suffering, violence, fear, pain and death. On October 7, 1,200 Israeli voices were silenced forever, victims of a brutal attack by the Hamas terrorist organization. Some 100 hostages are still being held captive and living in terrible anguish, as are their families. They must be released safe and sound. Since October 7, nearly 31,000 Palestinian voices have been silenced forever, almost all of them killed by the Netanyahu government's mass indiscriminate bombing. The majority are women and children. More than 12,000 Palestinian children have been killed. In Quebec, this would be the proportional equivalent of 48,000 Quebec children being killed by bombs. In fact, more Palestinian children have been killed in the last four months than in all armed conflicts in the last four years. It is happening every day, right in front of us, live. We can never claim that we did not know. This is a test for humanity, for our own humanity. Right now, humanity is failing. We must keep in mind what the daily reality has been in Gaza for months. There is no water, no food, no electricity, no housing, no fuel. People are starving, besieged, displaced, and being bombed every day. It is happening every day. Desperate people are being shot at while trying to get a little water, flour or rice from one of the too few humanitarian aid trucks. In bombed-out hospitals that have no electricity, doctors have resorted to performing surgeries without anaesthesia. We have seen the footage of a little girl in a wheelchair crying and pleading to get her legs back, a woman lifting debris too heavy for her as she frantically searches for her husband in the rubble, a child all alone covered in blood and dust, dazed and shaking like a leaf, with nowhere to go. We have seen the mass graves being hastily dug to keep the dead from contaminating the living. It is unbearable to watch. For many Quebeckers and Canadians, these people are their friends or relatives. The Palestinian death toll does not include the bodies buried in ruins, the 72,000 who are wounded, the thousands of orphans or this generation that will be traumatized for life. We cannot ignore the horrors and massacres. Our humanity will not let us. Volker Türk, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, said, “In Rafah I have witnessed the gates to a living nightmare. A nightmare, where people have been suffocating, under persistent bombardment, mourning their families, struggling for water, for food, for...fuel.... Gaza has already been described as the world's biggest open-air prison before 7 October, under a 56-year occupation and a 16-year blockade by Israel.... The collective punishment by Israel of Palestinian civilians amounts also to a war crime, as does the unlawful forcible evacuation of civilians.” As former French foreign affairs minister and prime minister Dominique de Villepin put it, “The right to self‑defence is not a right to indiscriminate vengeance”. It is becoming increasingly clear that the Netanyahu government and its far-right ministers are not just trying to destroy Hamas, but are pursuing other war aims, political aims. This becomes even clearer when ministers state it publicly, in a terrifying process of dehumanizing Palestinians. The defence minister called Palestinians “human animals”. The national security minister, who, incidentally, is distributing weapons to settlers in the West Bank, equated civilians in Gaza with terrorists who must also be destroyed. The heritage minister opposes humanitarian aid and said that “there is no such thing as uninvolved”, in other words, non-combatant, “civilians in Gaza”. The infrastructure minister said, “They will not receive a drop of water or a single battery until they leave”. The agriculture minister said, “We are now rolling out the Gaza Nakba”. Finance minister Smotrich, who denies the very existence of the Palestinian people, said he was prepared to tolerate a Gaza Strip with 200,000 Palestinians, when the territory now has more than two million people. It is clear, is it not? They are saying these things to us. We should listen to what they are saying. The genocidal rhetoric is there. We support sanctions against Hamas officials. We also call on the Liberal government to sanction extremist Netanyahu cabinet ministers who incite violence and genocide. What happens next? That is the crux of the motion we are putting forward today. Basically, we need to increase the pressure on the Netanyahu regime. We need to turn up the heat. There need to be consequences. First of all—and we were the first party to say it here, starting on October 10—there needs to be a ceasefire, and both Israel and Hamas must respect it. The massacre must stop. The hostages must be freed. Lives are truly at stake. This is not a figure of speech. After nine weeks of dithering, the Liberals finally asked for a ceasefire, but only half-heartedly, and they have done nothing since. Next, there is an urgent need to get enough humanitarian aid in to meet people's needs. The risk of famine is real. Some 20 children have already died of dehydration and malnutrition, including Samar's daughter. She died over there while her mother was desperately trying to bring her here. I met Samar. We are asking the Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship to fast-track repatriation cases and lift the arbitrary cap of only 1,000 visas. So far, the Canadian program has not brought a single person to Canada. Families here are terribly worried for their loved ones trapped in that hell. We also need to stop selling arms to that government. The NDP has been calling for this for a long time, but now it is imperative. On February 23, UN experts warned that all arms exports to Israel must stop immediately because they violate international law. The experts also cited Canada as a bad example. The minister has a duty not to approve the sale of military goods and technology when there is a risk of human rights violations, like use against civilians. The Liberal government could be abetting serious crimes by allowing the sale of these weapons. Speaking of obeying international law, the Liberals need to stop talking out of both sides of their mouths. Canada took part in building the institutions that uphold international law. Today, the Liberals cannot claim to support these institutions while only accepting their decisions when they see fit. We must respect human rights and international law everywhere and at all times. To do otherwise would be hypocrisy. In December, South Africa filed an application with the International Court of Justice, arguing that Tzahal's offensive in Gaza constituted a violation of the 1948 genocide convention. The court agreed to hear the case, considering that there is a real and plausible risk of genocide. In the short term, it issued an order intended to protect civilian lives. Human Rights Watch and 12 Israeli human rights groups are accusing the Netanyahu government of failing to abide by the court's decision. Canada has a responsibility and an obligation under international law to prevent genocide wherever and whenever it is committed by any of the signatories to the convention, including Israel. Unfortunately, on this issue, the Liberals are turning a blind eye and betraying their commitments to international institutions. The situation in the West Bank receives less media coverage but is just as troubling. In 2023, nearly 400 Palestinians were killed, including over 100 children. In most cases, the Israeli army itself was to blame, but there were also extremist settlers who attacked Palestinian farms and houses. The staggering expansion of the illegal settlements is jeopardizing the chances of a peaceful resolution. To be clear, Palestinians are being robbed of their land by an illegal military occupation. It is a major obstacle to peace and stability. Canada must sanction these extremist settlers. Finally, the government must forcefully and consistently advocate for a two-state solution. That is already Canada's official position, but we hardly ever hear it. To do that, the government must officially recognize the Palestinian state, which is what our motion proposes. Canada must take this step. One hundred and thirty-nine countries around the world have already done so. We need to join the majority of the international community. There can be no military solution. That will never work. The solution must be political. For 75 years, Palestinians have faced confiscation of their land, eviction from their homes, demolition, military occupation, discrimination, checkpoints and daily humiliation. This cannot go on forever. Hamas is also responsible for the hardships facing the people of Gaza and has made it clear that it wants to destroy Israel. That is why Canada must work towards a two-state solution made up of Israel, which has the right to live and exist in peace and security, and Palestine, which has the right to its own secure, viable state. We need to find that glimmer of hope and offer it to the thousands of people who are suffering and crying as we speak. A first step in offering that hope is for the members of the House to support this NDP motion for peace and justice for Israelis and Palestinians.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Mar/18/24 5:06:42 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as the Conservative shadow minister for international development, I want to reiterate that we are deeply concerned about the impact of this war on civilians, Palestinian and Israeli, and that we have been highlighting the critical importance of humanitarian access from the earliest days of the war. Conservatives also support a two-state solution, negotiated and agreed on by both Israelis and Palestinians, where each can exercise democratic self-determination in peace and security. Unlike the NDP, though, we do not believe rewarding bad actors, specifically funding bad actors, is going to lead to peace. In particular, Palestinians do not want to be under the thumb of Hamas. Durable peace and democratic self-determination for Palestinians is only possible through the defeat of Hamas and the delivery of support through organizations that do not incite violence. Does the member support calls for the complete disarmament of Hamas?

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice

Mar/18/24 5:07:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, obviously, the NDP condemns Hamas and the brutal and horrific attack on October 7, but that does not mean we should give a blank cheque to Netanyahu's regime and government and to his far-right ministers. My colleague talked about the importance of providing humanitarian aid. Right now, on a good day, 200 trucks can enter Gaza. When they can get in, that is. More often than not, only 100 get in. Before the October 8 bombings even began, Gaza needed at least 500 trucks of food a day. Today, it probably needs 1,000 trucks a day. The Netanyahu government is blocking this humanitarian aid. That is causing famine and misery for the two million Palestinians trapped in this hell on earth, which is the most dangerous place in the world for a child today. That is what we are addressing in our motion.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Mar/18/24 5:08:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to take this opportunity to talk about a letter I received as the member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue about the conflict in Palestine. I want to convey the deep dismay, even the shame of being human, and the profound sorrow expressed in this letter that was sent to me by Catholic parishes in the northern part of Témiscamingue. Sixty-one people got together and took the time to look into the conflict in Palestine. They want to denounce the Hamas movement. They feel it is urgent that Canada also express its opposition to the policies pursued by the State of Israel in Gaza, the West Bank and the City of Jerusalem. This means the establishment of settlements, the murder of civilians, arbitrary arrests, military rule for Palestinians and the participation of the Israeli army in abuses committed by Jewish settlers. To further express this opposition, they are calling for Canada's ambassador to Israel to be recalled and for Israel's ambassador to Canada to leave. As the spokesperson for the people of Témiscamingue here in Ottawa, I am asking my colleague the question. Should this solution also be considered?

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice

Mar/18/24 5:09:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think we need to use every possible and conceivable tool to put pressure on that government, which is possibly committing war crimes as we speak. In any case, the massacre of the population is real. We see it every day on social media and on the news. It is horrifying. People in my riding of Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie are also extremely worried and concerned. They want the Liberal government to act. I have received nearly 15,000 emails in my office about this issue. People want us to do more. I think this is one of the solutions we need to put forward, but, first, the House must adopt this motion.

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Mr. Matthew Green (Hamilton Centre, NDP)

Mar/18/24 5:10:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I referenced earlier that the 54th article of the Geneva Convention prevents starvation. It is a war crime. It is a crime against humanity. I know the hon. member has been following this closely and would have heard the horrific reports of children and families being forced to eat grass and of the starvation by the Israeli siege on the people in Rafah and throughout Gaza. I would like the hon. member to talk a bit about how, in this moment, with an impending invasion of Rafah, with the humanitarian crisis and with the lineup of trucks being held at the border of Rafah, that continues to constitute war crimes against the Palestinian people.

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Mr. Alexandre Boulerice

Mar/18/24 5:11:03 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the people of Gaza are not responsible for the actions of certain groups like Hamas, yet they have been disproportionately suffering the consequences for the past five months. A child dies every 15 minutes in Gaza. Collective punishment is a crime. Using hunger is a war crime too. We are extremely concerned about what is happening right now on the ground. That is why we need to act urgently to save lives. Human lives are at stake.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Environment and Climate Change and to the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources, Lib.)

Mar/18/24 5:11:53 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will be sharing my time today with the member for Scarborough Centre. I have received a lot of messages about the motion happening today, and I want to be clear about what it is not. It is not a motion for a ceasefire and for the release of hostages. If it were, that would be easy, and it would pass in the House. If the NDP wanted a motion on a ceasefire, it could have done so, and such a motion would have been able to bring people together. What we have at this moment is not that, and I am disappointed that the NDP did not rise to that moment. This motion has divided people and has taken advantage of their pain and vulnerability. It presents a laundry list of foreign policy from which we cannot pick and choose which ones we vote on. It is not a helpful result for community members watching. It is not helpful for developing foreign policy for our country. There is a difference between shouting from the sidelines and governing a country, and this motion is stoking anger and pain among Canadians. The messages I am receiving reflect this. There is so much pain we are feeling as we watch the war unfold in Israel and Gaza. I was horrified to watch the Hamas attack on October 7 on Israeli civilians, and I am horrified to watch the depths of destruction and the loss of life of Palestinian civilians in Gaza that continues today. I am horrified that there are still hostages being held by Hamas. It has been unfathomable. The war and the cost on civilians continues to be horrific, and it needs to stop. The violence needs to stop. There was an opportunity to smooth over the divisions we are facing in our country today, and it is an opportunity lost. I have heard comments from all sides that cross lines, be it Islamophobia or anti-Semitism. It is not okay, and communities are hurting. I have been asked, “Are you pro-Israel, or are you pro-Palestine?” That dichotomy misses the boat. I do not support Hamas. It is a terrorist organization that disregards the value of civilian lives, both Israeli and Palestinian. I do support the Palestinian people and their desire for a state of their own. I support the Israeli people and their state, but I am not a supporter of the Netanyahu government. His government’s response in Gaza has been heavy-handed with a massive death toll, and its actions are not moving toward peace. This is not just about picking a team. Our hearts are big enough to care for both. We can feel pain for the Israeli people following the October 7 attack, and we can feel pain for the Palestinian people in Gaza for the impacts of this war. Our minds are big enough to seek solutions that focus on the people on the ground who need our support. We need to work together to get there, and stoking divisions stops us from building those bridges to create those solutions. I want the war to end. I want a ceasefire, and I want the hostages to be released. If I vote against this motion, I am not condoning what is presently happening in Gaza. It is just that the motion does not solve the problem and could introduce more. However, if I vote for this motion, I am not accepting all of its terms either. That is the challenge with an omnibus motion. I know many people from all sides will be upset by what I will say or will not say and by how I will vote. I have put a lot of thought and heart into what would be the right response, but I accept that there is no way to satisfy everyone, and it is so easy to upset everyone. So be it. The weight is on our shoulders as members of Parliament to step away from the noise and to work toward solutions that can bring peace to the region. Let us talk about the motion itself, which has many parts, so I have to touch upon them quickly. As I have already said, I support a ceasefire and the release of hostages. We, in fact, voted for a ceasefire at the UN months ago, in December. However, we should be clear when we talk about a ceasefire that it cannot be one-sided. Both Netanyahu's government and Hamas must agree to a ceasefire. This does not land only on one side or the other. On the trade of military goods and technology, the first piece is that we cannot stop the illegal trade with terrorist organizations. The preamble of the motion recognizes a risk to Israel from Iran-backed terrorist groups, like Hezbollah and Hamas. As far as permits to export non-lethal military equipment to Israel, they should be reviewed independently. There are different purposes for these goods. They should be reviewed, like any other permit, individually, on their purpose and use. We have been talking about, because we need to be clear, non-lethal military goods and technology. UNRWA funding is in place, and despite the temporary pause, no payments have been missed. The next payment was always due in April, and will be paid in April. In 2016, I supported the reinstatement of funding for UNRWA that had been cancelled under the previous Conservative government. I did this because Palestinian people needed supports that the agency was best placed to deliver, but I was deeply shaken by allegations of the participation of members of UNRWA in the October 7 attack against Israel. If true, it is simply inexcusable. At the moment, there is an emergency situation facing the people in Gaza; they need aid now. I support the temporary return of funding to UNRWA. Right now, the most important thing is to get aid to people in need. On that front, Canada has stepped up with significant funding. We can have a larger conversation about UNRWA when this emergency is over and when investigations are complete, but providing aid has to be our priority now. I support immediate, unimpeded humanitarian access to Gaza. On international courts, as a lawyer, I support independent court systems and seeing them do their work. I will not presuppose the outcome of their work. As a country, we do not have to support any applicant, respondent or intervenor. We can respect the courts and their work. I do. There are Canadians who want to leave Gaza. We need to get them out. I have been working with local community members to try to get their loved ones to safety. To do it, we need the agreement of neighbouring countries to allow people through their borders. We will continue to press for it. Once we are able to coordinate with neighbouring countries for people to leave Gaza, our Minister of Immigration has already stated that the number of visas could be increased, and I support that position. Next, the motion speaks about extremist settlers, about inciting genocide, and about sanctions on Hamas leaders. I am troubled by the wording of this part. I do not like it, I have to say, but I cannot touch on each piece in too much detail. Let me say, in my view, any person, regardless of their country of origin, who incites genocide against any identifiable group should not be given entry to our country and should face penalties. Our government has already committed to taking action in respect of extremist settlers in the West Bank. On terrorists, I think it should go without saying that I agree we should not let terrorists into our country and should maintain sanctions against them. The next parts of the motion are connected. They are about going to a two-state solution and unilaterally recognizing the state of Palestine. I support a two-state solution. Palestinians and Israeli people will need to lead that effort with global support. It is premature for Canada to recognize a state before this negotiation. I want to see two states: Israel and Palestine. Let us work toward that goal, but let us not impose it from this side of the ocean. There are parts of this motion that I support and others that I do not. On many, the Liberal government has already taken action or has made public calls for action. Unfortunately, I cannot break the components of the motion apart. I cannot change the wording. I would like to take a moment to end where I began, which is to remind everyone that our hearts and minds are big enough to step out of a simple black and white, “pick a team” approach to this war. Neighbours, friends and communities are being torn apart. This is a time when Canada can show that our diversity can be a strength because it forces us to see different points of view. Right now we are letting it be our weakness. That cannot be where the story ends for this era. Let us show we can have empathy, and let us not add to the hate.

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Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner (Calgary Nose Hill, CPC)

Mar/18/24 5:22:08 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on October 7, 2023, Hamas murdered, raped and tortured over 1,000 Israelis in the worst attack on the Jewish people since the Holocaust. Hamas is listed in Canada as a terrorist organization. It wishes the destruction of Israel, still controls Gaza and holds dozens of Israeli hostages in captivity. The provisions of the motion before us ask much of Israel and include no accountability for Hamas at all. Does the member believe that the motion is supportable and, if it were to pass, that Hamas would essentially be rewarded by the Canadian Parliament for its brutal acts of terrorism?

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Mar/18/24 5:22:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the question, because I think it goes to the crux of the problem I have with the motion's being an omnibus motion with many different parts to it. I think there is so much that we, all of us across all sides of the aisle, can support, and it would be really wonderful if we could show that moment. There are some pieces of the motion that do deal with, for example, sanctions against Hamas leaders, so it is not that there is no mention of that. However, I say that a lot of it could be stronger in acknowledging the role of Hamas in this and the fact that it needs to be part of getting to a ceasefire; that is also in its hands.

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Ms. Leah Gazan (Winnipeg Centre, NDP)

Mar/18/24 5:23:45 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I just want to acknowledge, as somebody with a similar history, that what is going on right now in Palestine and in Israel is very painful and brings up for me a lot of intergenerational trauma. I want to acknowledge that as a fellow human being in the discussion. One of the comments the member made was in response to providing military arms and technology to Israel on a case-by-case basis. I have a problem with that, because Israel is currently being investigated by the ICJ for genocide. Can she explain her rationale for providing arms to Israel when it is being investigated for potential genocide?

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Mar/18/24 5:24:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first I would like to thank the member opposite for the acknowledgement of how this triggers a lot of trauma for many people, me included, across our country when we are talking about the issues and the war that is happening. The reason I spoke about military goods and equipment the way I did is that we are talking about non-lethal military goods. They could be, for example, armoured clothing. There are different types, and I think we should take into account what the different types are when we are reviewing them and making decisions, which should be done by bureaucrats who are trained in actually looking through the evidence.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Mar/18/24 5:25:32 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, Rénal Dufour, a local priest who is also a friend, contacted me through the local paper on March 6, saying that on February 14, he had dropped off a letter at my office that was signed by 68 people—I am correcting the earlier information from the letter I read—from the northern part of Témiscamingue. In that letter, he asks that the Canadian ambassador in Tel Aviv be recalled and that the Israeli ambassador be sent back, saying that he hopes the suggestion will not fall on deaf ears. I want to ensure that is not the case. I would like to ask a government member whether this solution of recalling Canada's ambassador to Tel Aviv is being considered by the government as part of the two-state solution.

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Ms. Julie Dabrusin

Mar/18/24 5:26:12 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, first of all, I would say that that is not part of the motion we are discussing today. From a diplomatic perspective, in any situation, even when two parties disagree, it is always important to continue talking and to be able to discuss things with other countries. If we decide that a two-state solution is what is needed and that we have to negotiate for peace, we need to have people who are there, in the region, and who can talk to each other to achieve that peace.

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