44th Parl. 1st Sess.
February 13, 2024 10:00AM
- Feb/13/24 8:06:17 p.m.
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It being 8:06 p.m., pursuant to order made earlier today, it is my duty to interrupt the proceedings and put forthwith every question necessary to dispose of Motion No. 34 under Government Business, which is now before the House.
The question is on the amendment.
May I dispense?
Some hon. members: No.
[Chair read text of amendment to House]
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- Feb/13/24 8:08:54 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we request a recorded division.
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- Feb/13/24 8:08:54 p.m.
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If a member participating in person wishes that the amendment be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.
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- Feb/13/24 8:08:59 p.m.
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- Feb/13/24 8:52:03 p.m.
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I declare the amendment lost.
The next question is on the main motion.
If a member participating in person wishes that the motion be carried or carried on division, or if a member of a recognized party participating in person wishes to request a recorded division, I would invite them to rise and indicate it to the Chair.
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- Feb/13/24 8:52:40 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I request a recorded division.
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- Feb/13/24 9:04:13 p.m.
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I declare the motion carried.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to have the opportunity to rise in the House this evening in support of Bill C-62.
I will note, in particular, the government's commitment to respecting people's autonomy and personal choices, while supporting and protecting Canadians living with mental illness who may be vulnerable. I will also talk about the major investments that our government has made to improve access to mental health services for all Canadians.
We recognize that mental illness can cause suffering that is on par with suffering that results from a physical illness. That is not up for debate. We also know that persons with a mental illness are capable of making decisions with respect to their own health, unless individualized assessment suggests this capacity is lacking.
However, while we respect the autonomy of those who choose MAID in response to severe and irremediable suffering, we have an equally important responsibility to protect Canadians who may be vulnerable, including those suffering from mental illness or who are in crisis. That is why federal legislation provides rigorous safeguards and criteria that must be applied to all MAID assessments.
The experts who made up the expert panel on MAID and mental illness were of the opinion that the existing legal safeguards provide an adequate structure for assessing cases where a mental disorder is the sole underlying medical condition, provided those safeguards are interpreted correctly and applied appropriately. In its final report, the group made 19 recommendations, including the development of model MAID practice standards and training for clinicians.
Our government has made significant progress, in collaboration with the provinces and territories and other health care stakeholders, to implement the recommendations of the expert panel and to prepare for the expansion of MAID eligibility. However, the provinces and territories have expressed concerns regarding the current March 2024 timeline and are asking for more time.
The Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying also recognized the progress made in preparing for the expansion of eligibility for MAID. However, as noted in the committee's recent report, it is recommended that additional time be provided to ensure that eligibility for medical assistance in dying can be safely assessed for individuals whose sole medical condition is a mental illness.
The three-year extension we are proposing in this bill will allow more time for the adoption and integration of the necessary resources, such as the model MAID practice standards and the training program recommended by the expert panel. This will ensure that MAID assessments for people with complex conditions, such as people suffering solely from mental illness, are conducted with the appropriate level of rigour.
I believe that any Canadian who is suffering grievously and wishes to consider MAID as an end-of-life option should be free to do so. I also think that, in parallel with the implementation of MAID for those who are assessed and deemed eligible, we also need to commit to improving our mental health care system.
As such, it is important for all Canadians who are struggling with mental illness and/or thoughts of suicide to have timely access to critical mental health resources. As parliamentary secretary, I am pleased to speak about our ongoing and future investments as well as progress being made on key interventions to support the needs of Canadians with regard to mental health and substance use care.
Budget 2023 confirmed the government's commitment to invest more than $200 billion over 10 years starting in 2023-24 to improve Canadians' health care. Of that amount, $25 billion will go to the provinces and territories through adapted bilateral agreements that will focus on four key pillars, including improving access to mental health services and addictions-related services. Other key investment include $598 million for a mental health and well-being strategy with distinction-based funding for indigenous communities, and $350 million for the substance use and addictions program since 2020.
Thanks to the mental health promotion innovation fund, the Public Health Agency of Canada is investing $4.9 million a year in community-based programs for mental health promotion focused on reducing systemic obstacles.
I am also very proud to recall that we have recently taken an important step to provide suicide prevention support for people who need it, when they need it most. Canada's new three-digit suicide crisis helpline, 988, launched on November 30, 2023. It is available to call or text, in English and in French, 24 hours a day and seven days a week across Canada. An experienced network of partners, as trained responders, are ready to answer 988 calls and texts. Responders provide support and compassion without judgment. They are here to help callers and texters explore ways to keep themselves safe when things are overwhelming.
We understand that the past few years have been hard and that many people have been struggling to cope. There is still a lot more to do, and we are committed to continuing to work with our partners to address Canadians' needs in the areas of mental health and substance use. In the future, we remain determined to improve access to mental health care services and to help those with substance use issues.
To that end, the Minister of Mental Health and Addictions and I met with a wide range of partners and stakeholders, including the provincial and territorial ministers responsible for mental health and addiction, to discuss their priorities and needs. This commitment will ensure that mental health and substance use services and programs are based on core expertise.
We have been listening to Canadians with lived and living experiences, to health care professionals on the front lines and to experts to make evidence-based investments and interventions to support timely access to mental health care needs. However, we recognize that no matter what treatments and services are available, sometimes they are not able to relieve intolerable suffering in a manner acceptable to an individual. That is when MAID may be an option for individuals who make a request and who are deemed eligible by two independent medical practitioners.
Ultimately, we are committed to respecting the personal autonomy of each and every Canadian, while protecting the interests of those who may need more care. The three-year extension we are proposing will enable us to do all we can to train and support clinicians who will assess complex cases, including those in which mental illness is the sole medical condition. In the meantime, we will continue to invest in resources and support for mental health and substance use problems.
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- Feb/13/24 9:13:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the fact the government had to put forward this legislation is a demonstration of its profound repeated failure on this file. Conservatives put forward a private member's bill, which was voted on in the fall, that would have forever killed this terrible idea of medically facilitated suicide for those with mental health challenges.
Government members, in the main, voted against that bill, and now they are coming back to the House. They have not learned the error of their ways. They do not recognize that, fundamentally, the medical system facilitating the suicide of those with depression and other mental health challenges is inconscionable. They have not realized that. Instead, they said that they just want a little more time to figure it out.
This is a terrible idea. It is never going to be a good idea, and they should have voted for the Conservative private member's bill to kill it when they had a chance. Nonetheless, we are ready to, after the next election, pass the legislation required to make sure this horrible idea never becomes a reality in Canada.
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- Feb/13/24 9:14:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, with all due respect, this question demonstrates that the Conservatives are clearly not here to listen to Canadians.
I think it makes sense for our laws to adapt to the population's needs. That is particularly true in Quebec, which is even prepared to open up the right to advance requests. MAID has come a long way, both legislatively and in the opinion of the entire population, since the first iteration of the law came into force in 2016.
In contrast to the Conservatives, we are demonstrating that we are capable of adapting, that we listen to everyone's opinions and comments and that we ensure we take them into account while protecting those with additional needs.
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- Feb/13/24 9:15:25 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have two questions for the member for Sherbrooke.
First, her minister acknowledged that Quebec's interdepartmental action plan for 2022-26 was excellent. We have heard a number of people here say that services need to be improved. What is she waiting for to transfer the money to Quebec?
Second, given what our Conservative colleagues have said, does she realize that by postponing the decision until 2027, the Liberals are passing the buck to a potential future Conservative government that will put an end to any hope of relief for people suffering from mental disorders?
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for his two questions. I would also like to acknowledge his exemplary and always highly professional work on this issue. Having sat in on several meetings of the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying, I have personally witnessed his passion for this subject.
As far as mental health transfers are concerned, we continue to make very significant investments. We are always working with Quebec to ensure that the money flows and is put to good use.
With regard to the second question, I would say that I truly and sincerely hope that the next government will be a Liberal government and that we can continue to move forward with the implementation of Bill C-62 and medical assistance in dying, both for advance requests and for people whose sole medical condition is a mental illness.
I agree with him that Quebec is truly one step ahead.
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- Feb/13/24 9:17:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is a gripping topic. I think that very reasonable people can have different views.
My colleague just talked about Quebec, which is indeed one step ahead. However, let us not forget that in June 2023, the National Assembly voted in legislation that completely excluded medical assistance in dying for persons suffering solely from a mental illness, following testimony from psychiatrists from throughout Quebec. Psychiatrists from Université Laval in my riding shared with me their reservations about moving forward on this issue. In my view, what the government is suggesting today is to slow down because we are clearly not ready. There are so many questions that still need to be answered about opening up MAID for this specific category of patient.
Without being against MAID in general, I would like to know what she thinks about comparing what the government is doing and what the National Assembly of Quebec has decided.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for the great discussion that we had on this subject recently.
I agree with him. That is what Bill C-62 is for. This is a very controversial subject. Like my other colleagues, I get letters from various institutions and groups that show that there are differing opinions in our society about people whose only underlying medical condition is mental illness. We need to make sure that everything is in place, including standards, tools and practitioner training, so that patients' eligibility is properly assessed and practitioners are comfortable applying this measure.
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Mr. Speaker, for a lot of us in the House, this feels like a case of déjà vu. It was pretty much a year ago that we were dealing with the exact same issue, and the government is doing the same thing, making the play to just punt the ball down the field yet again. Of course, it is talking about the issue of expanding assisted suicide to make it available for people suffering from mental illness. However, after the Liberals decided to open the door to that, they took a tiny step back and said, “We should wait for a year to go by before it can really begin.”
At that time, we Conservatives said, during the debate, that there was no possible way for one year to ever be enough time. For one thing, the Liberals rushed to expand MAID without carefully and thoroughly reviewing the concerns that already existed under the original program. That turned out to be another empty promise, and they recklessly pushed ahead with making assisted suicide more widely available. It became clearer than ever that they were not going to make any serious effort to protect vulnerable Canadians from all the harm that this new government decision will inflict.
One year is a very short amount of time, especially when the slow speed of bureaucracy is involved. At least now, the Liberals seem to finally realize that it was ridiculous for them to act as though this could just be delayed for a year and then everything would be fine. That year flew by quickly, and now we are back where we started. This time, they want to postpone it for three years instead of one.
When we hear the Liberals talk about this new bill, it is clear that they still have not learned the more important lesson from their terrible mistake. After the bill before us passes, the sad reality is that the Liberals have not closed the door that they opened a few years ago. They never should have opened it. In fact, it is quite the opposite: They are choosing to leave it open, despite all the red flags and the public outcry. It is the same game they were playing last year, except for one major difference: The Liberal plan to offer MAID for mental illness will come into effect after the next election. They have already indicated that this is what they want to happen eventually, if they get their way. However, they also know that they have pushed things way too far and that they cannot get away with it anymore. Enough is enough.
Canadians do not support the Liberals' out-of-touch agenda. This decision, like so many others, will make it harder for them to win another election. An Angus Reid poll discovered that three in 10 Canadians, fewer than the number who voted for the current government, support expanding MAID to those suffering exclusively with mental illness. Therefore, once again, the government will try to cover up its failure. While it tries to do that, Conservatives proudly stand on the side of common sense for the common people. We will reverse the government's terrible decision to expand assisted suicide. As the official opposition, we have already started to work on it.
Conservatives introduced Bill C-314 to repeal the Liberal plan to offer assisted suicide for mental illness once and for all. However, as expected, last fall, the Liberal government broke ranks with its coalition partner and voted it down. Even though it did not pass, it called the government's bluff. Liberals showed their true colours that day and made it absolutely clear where they stood. They are not interested in doing what it takes to protect the lives of Canadians who struggle with their mental health. The real reason for their delay is to use it as a stalling tactic for a government that is clearly in decline; despite that, we are glad to see that the bill will prevent tragic deaths from occurring before a Conservative government can bring in permanent protection for Canadians. We know that it needs to happen. There have been many troubling stories, which the government apparently chooses to ignore.
Last summer, a woman in Vancouver went to a hospital looking for support. She was experiencing suicidal thoughts and did not feel safe at home. During assessment, a clinician told her that there were not enough hospital beds and that the system was overwhelmed. Then she was asked: “Have you considered MAID?” She felt shocked and told her story, and I will read something she said in the Global News article. It reads: “No matter how much you struggle with mental illness or disability or chronic illness, no one should make a judgment about the value of your life or if it’s worth living.” That should not be a controversial thing to say, but the Prime Minister and his government have brought us to a dark place.
Only a couple of months ago, a 52-year-old grandfather who had cancer was waiting for chemotherapy and treatment. He was told there was a backlog, and the wait was taking longer than it should have. With worsening health complications, he applied for MAID and it went through. As members can imagine, the family was devastated by their experience.
There was also Corporal Christine Gauthier, a veteran and Paralympian, who called Veterans Affairs Canada to get a ramp installed. She was also asked to consider MAID. How did we get to the point where a veteran who served our country was told to consider ending her life instead of receiving the help she was seeking, something as simple as adding a ramp, for her own personal mobility? This is not the only time such a thing happened.
When something like that happens, it creates a situation that makes it more difficult for people to trust government services. When someone has these experiences or hears about them, it erodes their trust. Actually, it destroys their trust. During a personal crisis or a moment of weakness, they cannot help but worry that they will die because they simply spoke with the wrong person at the wrong time. That is a serious problem, and we should be working to fix it instead of making things worse.
We are heading down the wrong path, because the government's approach to this issue sends people a message of despair: that they should give up because their life is not worth living. With respect to that point, I hope everyone here will take heart in the story of Tyler Dunlop from Orillia, Ontario. At 37 years old, he had been homeless for years. He felt suicidal and planned to apply for MAID, but then he received some help in his life. Over time, he had a major shift in his thinking and experienced a spiritual transformation. After changing his mind to no longer seek assisted suicide, he released a new book, called Therefore Choose Life: My Journey from Hopelessness to Hope. We should all be glad that he is still here with us and can tell his story.
I want to share some of what he says in his book. He writes, “Though I had resigned myself to the fact that I'd be dead soon, my conscience—what has been called the voice of God—began to trouble me, the more I thought about MAID.” He goes on, “Around this time, much to my chagrin, I learned that the Liberal Party decided to postpone for one year the expansion of medically assisted death to Canadians with mental illness, so, like it or not, my appointment with death would have to wait.”
If not for the previous postponement, then, there is a good chance that Tyler would not be alive today. What if he had died so young, instead of simply receiving the help he needed and the compassion he was looking for? He has found a renewed sense of purpose and a new life through his Christian faith, thankfully escaping being yet another victim to a culture of death in which some people are considered more worthy of life than others. Now, he is able to share his story and his conviction that government can never replace God as the moral authority over right and wrong.
This is an encouraging story of survival, but there are more people out there who need our support. According to Statistics Canada, 4,500 Canadians die by suicide each year. That is 12 per day. That means 4,000 people struggling with mental disorders. What message will we send to those people who are at risk?
Then, there is the ongoing epidemic of addiction and substance abuse, which can officially be considered mental disorders. Will we allow assisted suicide to expand to the point that addiction makes somebody eligible? Where will it end? Life is precious and something that must be defended, especially when it is vulnerable Canadians who think that the only way out of the situation that they are in is death.
However, we are losing sight of that. The Liberals and their ideological allies blatantly ignored alarm after alarm raised by witnesses and community members at the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying, which is why Conservatives on the committee had to publish their dissenting reports. Despite attempts by the expert panel, which the government selected, to block key stakeholders or ignore committee testimony, we are working as hard as we can to represent these voices. Expert after expert and story after story have raised alarms, but the Liberals remain committed to their agenda, no matter what.
Canadians cannot trust them to fix what they have broken, but they can count on Conservatives to continue bringing hope and provide real help for those who are suffering. That is what our country needs right now. Our country needs hope.
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Mr. Speaker, I listened to the member and I wonder, if he were to apply the same principles that he talks about with regard to Bill C-62 to MAID as a whole, whether he would actually support the legislation with that particular amendment, even if it were taken out. Would he apply those same principles that he was talking about to the MAID legislation as a whole?
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- Feb/13/24 9:29:21 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there are a few important points that we need to talk about first.
First of all, the Liberals did not actually complete the mandatory review that the original legislation had. If that review had happened properly, I would be willing to bet that we would not be where we are today.
The next point I want to make is that a couple of years ago the government promised $4.5 billion or maybe $6 billion for mental health. I do not remember the exact amount. I stand to be corrected, but as far as I am aware, so far, it is zero dollars. The government talks about making sure there are supports there for people with mental health, but the only support I am aware of right now is the 988 hotline that my Conservative colleague has been able to get in place.
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- Feb/13/24 9:30:13 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, what the parliamentary secretary fails to acknowledge is the many ways in which the government's policies on euthanasia have been a profound failure.
In fact, it has been repeatedly called out, not only by those who are concerned about the impact on those struggling with mental health challenges, but also by those within the disability community, which has been nearly unanimous in their criticism of the government's approach. The disability community has identified how the approach the government is taking is undermining the services that they wish to access, and it is in fact devaluing the lives and contributions of people living with disabilities. The Liberal government and the parliamentary secretary need to acknowledge that.
I want to ask the member a question. There were some very specific constructive proposals around this in the last Conservative election platform, things such as how a doctor should not be bringing up and proposing MAID to someone who has not asked for it. At a minimum, if there is going to be a conversation about euthanasia, it should be initiated by the patient. It should not be something a doctor, someone in the health care system or someone who works for a government department, such as veterans affairs, is suggesting to them.
Does the member agree that one reasonable reform would be to say that it should be the patient bringing up the conversation, if it is a conversation they want to have, not somebody else bringing it up and suggesting death to them?
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- Feb/13/24 9:31:44 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, absolutely, if the euthanasia framework is going to be in place, to me, that is the only way that it should be in place. The patient needs to be the one who is initiating the conversation.
The fact that multiple government departments are on record as asking people or offering people medical assistance in dying is absolutely absurd. That speaks to all kinds of levels of failure from the Liberal government. There are people who cannot find a home who are looking for medical assistance in dying. Veterans have been offered medical assistance in dying. For somebody who could not receive health care to treat cancer, and it is not like cancer is some rare disease in this country, but this person could not receive treatment for cancer, and he chose MAID instead, even though he did not necessarily want it but because he was unable to get treatment that should normally be readily available for him.
That is ridiculous. The number of failures by the Liberal government is absolutely ridiculous.
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- Feb/13/24 9:32:55 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, some Conservatives seem to think the Criminal Code no longer exists. We have had these debates before. When someone nefarious is working in the health care system, they simply need to be fired and reported to the police. That can happen. The provisions are there.
I therefore invite my colleagues who know of cases like this, which are always very specific cases, to report these people to the police. Are we going to generalize to such an extent that we are going to prevent any suffering person from asserting their right to self-determination and deciding what is good for them when it comes to something as intimate as their own death?
It is odd that Conservatives are libertarians when it comes to economics, yet when it comes to moral issues, they think the government needs to be in charge.
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