SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 265 - Dec/11/23

Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Dec/11/23 5:10:36 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have a brief question for my NDP colleague. She spoke a bit during her remarks about the fact that the NDP is calling for, from what I understand, an immediate ceasefire in the context of Israel and Gaza. As far as I have seen, the NDP has not called for an immediate ceasefire in the context of the Ukraine war. I am trying to understand the consistency of the position of the New Democrats with respect to that. Why are they taking one position in one case and a different position in another case?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Dec/11/23 5:11:09 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, if the Conservative Party does not understand the difference between Russia invading and occupying Ukraine and Palestine being occupied, I do not know what to say. I do not know how to help the member. He may need to do a bit more reading and research if he is going to be the critic for international development. That is an absurd question to ask.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Dec/11/23 5:11:35 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-56

Madam Speaker, I appreciate that the member shared some of her personal stories on the issue, especially those from when she was a teacher. I think a number of people would be offended by how this concurrence motion is being used as a tool to filibuster and prevent members from being able to speak to Bill C-56, which is all about affordability. When we take into consideration that the member made reference to international aid and how Conservatives intentionally and collectively voted against that money flowing, there seems to be a lot of irony there. Could she expand on that point?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Dec/11/23 5:12:25 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, yes, it is pretty baffling that Conservatives would have voted against international development and foreign affairs. They voted against the support for gender equity work that was being proposed. All of these things are a clear indication to me that this is simply an attempt to weaponize debate in the House. As a tool to do that, they are using the pain and suffering of women and girls in Afghanistan. It is absolutely appalling. I hope anyone watching recognizes that this is not about helping people in Afghanistan, but about preventing the Government of Canada and Parliament from getting supports to Canadians. The reason for that is the Conservative Party is more interested in power than it is in getting supports for Canadians. Today, the NDP got dental care for Canadians, and I am so utterly proud. The Conservatives cannot tell me one single thing that they have gotten for Canadians.

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Afghanistan

Mr. Randall Garrison (Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, NDP)

Dec/11/23 5:13:52 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my question is really about whether the member for Edmonton Strathcona is as perplexed as I am when the Conservatives today are saying that women and girls internationally are so important. I do not remember any initiatives from the Conservatives for their opposition days, when they could have made this a topic, in their demands for special debates or in the proposals they put before Parliament that would actually support women and girls internationally.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Dec/11/23 5:14:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do appreciate that some things have been done. Under Stephen Harper, there was an initiative called the Muskoka initiative, which did have some good pieces to it, but it took out any support for reproductive health care anywhere else in the world. It happened at a time when that was also being done in the United States, so all of a sudden there was very little aid being given for women's reproductive health around the world. I worked in Uganda at one point in a small village. The person I shared lodging with was a doctor who was working with women who had struggled with their pregnancies, were pregnant, were seeking reproductive health care or were seeking abortion. The fact that funding was cut meant tens of thousands of women around the world would have died. They would have died without that support.

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Mr. Pat Kelly (Calgary Rocky Ridge, CPC)

Dec/11/23 5:15:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, there has been a lot of talk about the agenda today. The bill that was to be debated is one that all parties, or at least the Conservatives and the Liberals, already voted in favour of at second reading. It is also time allocated, so this concurrence debate is not slowing down the passage of that bill. However, this concurrence debate does give members, including the member for Edmonton Strathcona, a chance to talk about the horrific circumstances of women and girls in Afghanistan and the government's lack of response, the government's failing of those women and girls in Afghanistan and the specifics of this report, which calls for the continued criminalization of the Taliban and non-recognition of it as a government. I wonder if she could spend some of the time left to talk about those failings of the government to protect women and girls in Afghanistan.

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Dec/11/23 5:16:21 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-41

Madam Speaker, I do believe I spoke quite extensively during my speech about how Bill C-41 has failed women and girls in Afghanistan. I also spoke about the low ODA, or official development assistance, and how that has failed. One thing I would also bring up is that we debated this in June. This is an issue the Conservatives are simply bringing up because they want to distract from what the House had on its schedule and was going to be working on. They can put a million concurrence debates up before the House and, frankly, none of them will actually move forward the agenda Canadians have asked us to come here to do. We did this debate. We have already talked about this. I am more than happy to talk about international development, and the member is right, this did give me an opportunity to talk about my very favourite subject of all, which is human rights in Canada and around the world, particularly the rights of women and girls. If they really wanted to support women and girls in Afghanistan, around the world and in Canada, they would not have voted against those supports for women and girls. They would not have voted against supports for the gender equity work being done. They would not have voted against foreign affairs being cut. They would not have run in the 2019 election on the 25% cut to development. They are not who they are trying to make themselves out to be today. It is very clear to me they want to be seen as something their voting record proves they are not.

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Mr. Greg McLean (Calgary Centre, CPC)

Dec/11/23 5:18:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I was a little aghast at some of my colleague's comments, but she must realize we are actually in the opposition here. Our job is to oppose, and we did oppose many measures that were brought forward in the estimates. We went for a full night of voting against those because Canadians want the government to change. Canadians know the government has no concept of the affordability challenges they are facing, so I will defend us voting against all of those measures. I will ask her, because she is not opposing the government at this point in any way whatsoever, how in the current debate she can support a government that opportunistically went into an election in 2021, at the very point when Afghanistan was falling. We could have saved so many of our people who helped us in Afghanistan, including women and girls who are no longer getting an education because of the government's actions. How does she continue that support?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Dec/11/23 5:19:03 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, frankly, when I speak to my constituents, what they really want me to do is work with other parties to get supports for them, to do the work together to get things done. They do not actually want to see us fighting with each other in the House of Commons. They want to see us making sure things happen, such as dental care. “Dental care” is all I need to say about that. There is one other thing I will say. The member asks how I can support the Liberals. I am very upset with many of the things the Liberals do, and the only thing I will say to the member is that I can only imagine it would be worse by multitudes if the Conservatives were to win the next election.

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Mr. John Williamson (New Brunswick Southwest, CPC)

Dec/11/23 5:19:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague would not answer the question about Ukraine, a democracy, and Israel, a democracy, both being threatened. Why does the member insist on a ceasefire and not that Hamas surrenders? If Hamas were to surrender, it would mean a ceasefire, it would mean the release of hostages, and importantly, it would mean that Hamas would be held accountable for its atrocious actions. Why not call for an unconditional ceasefire as opposed to using the words— An hon. member: Oh, oh! Mr. John Williamson: Madam Speaker, pardon me. Why not call for an unconditional surrender as opposed to a ceasefire, which would leave Hamas in place and allow it to massacre Jews once again? Why?

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Ms. Heather McPherson

Dec/11/23 5:20:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, he sort of got it right there when he first said a ceasefire. Here is the deal: I am trying to save the lives of children who have nothing to do with Hamas, women who have nothing to do with Hamas and the hostages who have nothing to do with Hamas. In fact, all this violence against those women and children is not making a single person safer in Israel. Absolutely, Hamas should surrender. It should not even exist. Of course, it should surrender, one hundred per cent. It is not very realistic that it is going to do it, as it is a terrorist organization, so that is not how it works. In the meantime, let us stop bombing children. Let us stop bombing— Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/11/23 5:21:34 p.m.
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The hon. member for Kingston and the Islands is rising on a point of order.

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Mr. Mark Gerretsen

Dec/11/23 5:21:37 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am trying to listen to the member's intervention. I think she has some insightful stuff to add to this debate, but the Conservatives are trying to shout her down while she speaks. Perhaps you could ask them to settle down, so I could—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Alexandra Mendès)

Dec/11/23 5:21:48 p.m.
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We are actually out of time. Resuming debate, the hon. member for Nepean.

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Nepean

Mr. Chandra Arya (Nepean, Lib.)

Dec/11/23 5:21:58 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, after the marathon 30 hours of voting in this House on Friday and taking a break for just over 14 hours, I was at an event organized by Canadian Women for Women in Afghanistan and University Women Helping Afghan Women to commemorate Human Rights Day. The event was also part of the 16 days of activism against gender violence. At this event, four accomplished Afghan women, all newcomers to Ottawa, talked about their experiences throughout both Taliban regimes. A few weeks back, I hosted a meeting of over 60 Afghan Canadian community leaders in Ottawa and listened to their issues here and back in Afghanistan. I am regularly in touch with Shahr Hazara of One Afghan Woman Foundation, Tahir Shaaran of Canadian Hazara Advocacy Group, community leaders like Amin Karimi and many others who have been highlighting the challenges faced by the Hazara community in Afghanistan. I was also at a fundraising event organized by Madina Mashkoori and her team at Afghan Student Association raising money for the earthquake victims in Afghanistan. The Taliban's actions have inflicted untold suffering upon the people of Afghanistan, undermining fundamental human rights and perpetuating a reign of terror. Let me first address the Taliban's abhorrent system of gender discrimination. Under its rule, women have been subjected to unspeakable oppression and denied the most basic rights that every human being deserves. They have been deprived of education, employment and the freedom to make choices about their own lives. The Taliban's draconian interpretation of sharia law has systematically relegated women to second-class citizens, stifling their potential and relegating them to a life of subservience. This blatant gender discrimination is a gross violation of human rights and an affront to the principles of equality and dignity. Moreover, the Taliban's systemic violence targeting minority communities is reprehensible. Ethnic and religious minorities in Afghanistan have faced targeted persecution, discrimination and brutal attacks at the hands of the Taliban. Their fundamental rights have been trampled upon and their very existence threatened by the Taliban's agenda of oppression and marginalization. This flagrant disregard for the rights of minorities is utterly unacceptable and must be vehemently condemned. I will talk about the Hazara community in a moment. The reprisals against former members of the Afghan National Security and Defence Forces further highlight the Taliban's disregard for human rights and the rule of law. Individuals who dedicated themselves to the protection of their country and its people are now facing retaliation and violence simply for their service. This betrayal of those who stood to defend their nation is a despicable act that must not go unnoticed or unchallenged. Equally concerning is the Taliban's assault on freedom of the press. Journalists and media personnel have been targeted and silenced, their voices stifled to prevent the dissemination of truth and information. A free press is the cornerstone of democracy and the Taliban's efforts to muzzle it represent a direct attack on the principles of transparency, accountability and the right to information. In the face of these egregious violations of human rights and the rule of law, I firmly believe that the Taliban must remain a listed terrorist organization. Its history of brutality, repression and violence against innocent civilians cannot be overlooked or forgiven. To legitimize or normalize its control would be a betrayal of our commitment to upholding universal human rights and would send a dangerous message to oppressive regimes worldwide. It is imperative that the international community stand in solidarity against the Taliban's oppressive regime. We must use all diplomatic, economic and humanitarian means at our disposal to support the people of Afghanistan, especially women, minorities and those who have risked their lives for the cause of peace and stability. We must continue to pressure the Taliban to respect human rights, uphold the rule of law and engage in meaningful dialogue to achieve a peaceful and inclusive Afghanistan. The persecution of the Hazara community in Afghanistan is a tragic and ongoing chapter in the country's tumultuous history. The Hazaras, an ethnic minority, have faced relentless discrimination, violence and persecution for decades. Their distinct features and Shia Muslim beliefs have made them a target for extremist groups like the Taliban. Tragically, the Hazara community has borne the brunt of targeted attacks, including bombings, abductions and massacres. These atrocities have claimed countless innocent lives, causing immeasurable suffering and fear among the Hazara population. Despite their resilience and contributions to Afghan society, they continue to be marginalized and subjected to systemic discrimination. Their plight demands urgent attention from the international community to safeguard their rights, ensure their protection and hold perpetrators of violence against the Hazaras accountable. Upholding the dignity and safety of the Hazara community is not just an Afghan issue but a universal call for justice and human rights for all vulnerable minorities. The Hazara-Canadian community has highlighted ongoing persecution and violent attacks by the Taliban, ISKP and local groups in Afghanistan. Between 2016 and mid-2021, there were 12 major attacks resulting in 1,868 victims. Since the Taliban takeover, there have been 19 major attacks leading to 1,225 victims. Religious sites, public transport, educational centres and sports clubs belonging to the Hazara community have been targeted. Indiscriminate attacks have caused a climate of fear and insecurity, with zero investigation and no accountability. Over 100 individuals, including women and girls, have been the victims of targeted assassinations. Taliban courts have ruled directing Hazara community members to relinquish lands and properties. Hence, the Hazara community is displaced, dispossessed and impoverished from its ancestral lands. Hazaras are purged and excluded from all sorts of business and market structures. There has been a systematic ousting of Hazaras from government roles at provincial levels. Hazara judges, prosecutors and civil servants have been removed from key positions. Hazara representation in local governance leadership plummeted from 68% to near zero. Under the Taliban regime in Afghanistan, the status of girls and women has drastically regressed, plunging into a state of profound oppression and limitation of basic rights. The progress achieved over the years in terms of education, work opportunities and societal participation has been forcefully reversed. Girls' education, once a beacon of hope and progress, has been severely curtailed. Most girls are now barred from attending school beyond a certain age, denying them the chance to pursue knowledge and fulfill their potential. Women's access to work and public life has been dramatically restricted, with severe limitations on employment, movement and engagement in society. Their voices, once gaining traction, have been stifled as they face extreme constraints on their freedom of expression and participation. The Taliban's interpretation of sharia law has imposed a regressive and patriarchal system that confines women and girls to traditional roles, stripping them of autonomy and agency. It is imperative to shed light on these violations of human rights, and advocate for the restoration of fundamental freedoms and opportunities for Afghan women and girls. Their plight calls for global attention and concerted efforts to ensure their rights and dignity are reinstated. The international community must rally together to safeguard the human rights of women and girls in Afghanistan. This involves prioritizing humanitarian aid to ensure access to education, health care and protection services. Diplomatic pressure should be exerted to hold the Taliban accountable for upholding women's rights, demanding their inclusion in decision-making processes. Collaborative efforts with local organizations and activists are vital to provide support and amplify voices advocating for gender equality. Additionally, offering asylum and resettlement opportunities for at-risk women and girls is crucial, ensuring their safety and a chance for a life free from oppression. Delegitimizing the Taliban regime in Afghanistan necessitates diplomatic isolation, refusing recognition and imposing targeted sanctions. Highlighting their human rights abuses globally and supporting grassroots movements amplifies opposition. Providing aid directly to Afghan communities, bypassing Taliban control, demonstrates solidarity while discrediting their governance. Empowering Afghan voices through international platforms and fostering alliances with regional neighbours to collectively condemn Taliban actions are crucial steps. By emphasizing the disparity between their promises and their oppressive reality, the international community can erode the legitimacy of the Taliban regime. We find ourselves at a pivotal moment in history, witnessing a transformation in the geopolitical landscape, a shift towards a multipolar world where the global south is emerging as a significant force, altering the dynamics of global power. This evolution has profound implications for international relations, with Afghanistan standing as a pertinent example within this shifting paradigm. The traditional power structures that once defined the global order are undergoing a seismic shift. The dominance of western powers, particularly in shaping economic, political and security narratives, is being challenged. Countries across the global south are rising as influential actors, contributing to a more balanced and multipolar world. The rise of the global south is driven by several factors. Economic growth and technological advancements in nations such as China, India, Brazil and others have significantly contributed to their increasing influence on the global stage. Moreover, collective efforts within the global south to strengthen regional co-operation and assert their interests in international forums have bolstered their presence in shaping global agendas. Amidst this geopolitical transformation, Afghanistan holds a pivotal position. It has been a focal point of global attention due to its strategic location at the crossroads of Central Asia, the Middle East and South Asia. Afghanistan's historical significance as a battleground for competing interests, coupled with its natural resources, has made it a geopolitical chessboard for global powers. The recent events in Afghanistan, especially the withdrawal of western forces and the subsequent Taliban takeover, have added a new dimension to this shifting geopolitical landscape. The situation in Afghanistan serves as a microcosm of evolving power dynamics, showcasing the complexities and challenges of multipolarity. The Taliban's resurgence and assumption of power have raised concerns globally, not only about the rights and well-being of the Afghan people but also about regional stability. The manner in which the international community engages with the Taliban and addresses Afghanistan's future will significantly impact the trajectory of this multipolar world. Moreover, Afghanistan's place in this evolving geopolitical order brings to the forefront the role of regional actors. Countries in the vicinity, including Pakistan, Iran, China and Russia, have vested interests in Afghanistan's stability and security. Their engagement and co-operation in shaping Afghanistan's future will influence the broader geopolitical dynamics of the region and beyond. The Global South's assertiveness in shaping global narratives demands a more inclusive and diversified approach to international relations. It calls for recognizing the voices and interests of diverse nations, prioritizing co-operation over unilateralism and fostering mutual understanding and respect among nations with varying cultural, political and economic backgrounds. In conclusion, the evolving geopolitical situation leading to a multipolar world is a reality that requires thoughtful consideration and strategic engagement. Afghanistan's position in this global transformation highlights the complexities and challenges inherent in this shift. As we navigate this new era, it is imperative for the international community to embrace diversity, foster inclusive dialogue and work collaboratively to address global challenges while respecting the sovereignty and aspirations of all nations.

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Mr. Alex Ruff (Bruce—Grey—Owen Sound, CPC)

Dec/11/23 5:39:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the member's bringing up the changing dynamics. We saw that first-hand in Afghanistan with the west's pulling out. I would like to ask the member the same question I asked the parliamentary secretary, and it is really a favour: to use his voice with the Liberal government, as a member of that party, to get some clarity around the current programs that exist for helping those Afghans who helped us. They put a cap on the number, as a quota, versus really focusing on the number. I am getting reports back from all sorts of NGOs, charities and organizations that have been working, saying that there are literally thousands of applicants who are stuck in the system in limbo. They do not know whether they are going to get here to Canada. Can the member lend his voice to try to get some clarity, so that the Canadian public, the charities, the NGOs and members of Parliament all know exactly what is going on with the Afghan SIM program?

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Mr. Chandra Arya

Dec/11/23 5:40:33 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, we have delivered what we initially promised to the people of Afghanistan. However, more needs to be done. We have done it for the people of Ukraine. We are doing it for oppressed people and people in very tense situations in different parts of the world; we will continue doing so. Canada has a great record of being one of the countries with the highest per capita acceptance of refugees from across the world. We are proud of that, and we will continue in the same vein.

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Mr. Garnett Genuis (Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, CPC)

Dec/11/23 5:41:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it was refreshing, after some of the earlier speeches, to actually get back to a discussion of Afghanistan. I thank the member for that. I want to ask specifically about the view of the government as it relates to engagement with opposition groups. It is my view and our view that engaging and working with the anti-Taliban, pro-democracy opposition groups is very important and something the government should be doing more of. Is the member aware of whether that engagement is happening right now under his government? Does he believe, as we do, that more engagement should be taking place?

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Mr. Chandra Arya

Dec/11/23 5:41:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is very important that Canada engage with opposition groups, and not only political opposition groups but also humanitarian groups, various ethnic community groups and the various groups that represent the oppressed people in Afghanistan. It should do so in the same way it engages with groups, say, in Myanmar and other parts of the world. It is also very important that we engage with other international partners, because Canada alone cannot make a major difference in Afghanistan. However, working collaboratively with like-minded countries, especially countries in western democracies, and taking a joint, organized approach in dealing with the Taliban and the issues faced by lots of people in Afghanistan, women and girls particularly, will yield a better result.

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