SoVote

Decentralized Democracy

House Hansard - 248

44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 7, 2023 10:00AM
  • Nov/7/23 10:19:38 a.m.
  • Watch
moved: That, given that, (i) 2023 saw a record fire season due to climate change, in which the area burned was double that of the historic record, and hundreds of thousands of Canadians were evacuated from their homes, (ii) Canadians continue to struggle with dramatic increases to the cost of living while Canada’s biggest corporations, including oil and gas corporations, post record profits, (iii) federal government programs aimed at supporting energy efficient retrofits such as heat pumps are hard to access, especially for low-income Canadians, (iv) effective climate action must also address the very real affordability concerns of ordinary Canadians, the House call on the government to: (a) remove the GST from all forms of home heating; (b) make eco-energy retrofits and heat pumps free and easy to access for low-income and middle-class Canadians, regardless of their initial home heating energy source; and (c) finance these changes by putting in place a tax on the excess profits of big oil and gas corporations. He said: Madam Speaker, I will be splitting my time with my good friend, the member for Rosemont—La Petite-Patrie. Canadians right across this country are struggling with the cost of living, including food, housing and home heating. In every province and territory, Canadians also want to see action on climate change. It is the challenge of our time, an existential challenge that affects all of us, our kids and future generations. It is not only that we can address these two urgent issues of affordability and the climate crisis at the same time, it is that we must address these emergencies at the same time. That is why New Democrats brought forward this motion today. The motion would do three things. The first is that it would remove the GST from all forms of home heating. The GST, after all, is a Conservative tax that was brought in by a former Conservative government and is being applied to something that, as we have heard many times in this place, is an essential. The Liberals surprised everyone with their nakedly political decision last week to give some people a break in some parts of Canada where Liberals seem to be facing tough polls. Unlike that decision, this motion would give a break to everyone in every province and territory, for all forms of home heating. This is a pretty simple policy proposal. It is one that the NDP has put forward again and again, going back to the time of the late Jack Layton. The other thing this motion would do is make it easier for Canadians to choose clean forms of home heating that save them money on their heating bills, especially heat pumps, which, right now, are transforming the home heating of millions of people around the world. We have seen double-digit increases in the number of people using heat pumps to heat their homes; here in Canada, we have a lot of work to do. The Liberals' current approach to helping Canadians install heat pumps or do eco-energy retrofits of their homes, particularly for low-income people but for all Canadians, including middle-class Canadians, is deeply flawed. Last week, they made changes for people mostly in Atlantic Canada who heat with home heating oil. These changes make it dramatically easier to afford these kinds of changes to improve their housing envelope, insulate their homes, add weather sealing and install heat pumps. Those are the changes we need right across this country for people in every province and on all forms of home heating. Where are we when it comes to achieving the government's stated ambition on reducing climate pollution from home heating sources? We are far behind. Canada's commitment is that heat pumps must be used for more than 10% of home heating by 2030 in order to achieve what is in the emissions reduction plan. Right now, we are at 6%. By 2030, we need to get to that 10%, and that equates to about 560,000 heat pumps installed across the country. That is 70,000 heat pumps per year. New Democrats had an Order Paper question, in which we asked the government how many heat pumps it has incentivized under its greener homes program since 2021, when it was brought in. We got the numbers back this past March. What was the number? It was not 70,000, but 438 heat pumps. Granted, heat pumps are being installed for reasons other than the greener homes incentive program, but what this shows is that this commitment on heat pumps is being broken. It is like the promise for two billion trees to be planted; the environment commission just told us it is not going to meet its goal and has become a tree-counting program instead of a tree-planting program. Canada is far behind meeting its ambition and realizing the pace of change that we need if we are going to tackle this existential crisis. The government's heat pump program is far too difficult for people to access. I want to tell the story of Perry, one of my neighbours in Smithers, B.C. Last June, his natural gas furnace was at the end of its life, and he wanted to do the right thing. He wanted to put in a clean heat pump system that was going to run on clean B.C. electricity, save his household money and reduce climate pollution. He learned about the greener homes program and had an energy adviser do an audit of his house. He found an installer who was skilled and able to install a heat pump system. He went through all these steps, and it is not a simple procedure. The installer installed the heat pump system. He looked through all the rules and specifications and put in two units. He submitted the paperwork to Natural Resources Canada, to the greener homes program. After months of waiting, he received the answer that although the outside unit that was installed was on the approved list of equipment, it was not approved if used with the inside unit that had been chosen. The inside unit was also on the list of approved equipment, but not in conjunction with the outside unit. One cannot make this stuff up. There have been months of frustration and appeals to the program to use some common sense. He put in a heat pump that uses electricity and cuts his climate pollution down. This is the goal of the program, and he has done it; however, the program refused all his appeals and said he was not getting his $5,000 rebate. What happened then? The installer went back, tore out one of the units and put it another unit the installer felt was inferior, but now both were definitely on the list and should be approved. He resubmitted the paperwork. Another energy audit was done. After six months, he received an email from the program saying that his account had been closed. It has been a year and a half, and Perry still has not received his $5,000 rebate. He has put so much time into fighting with the government program that, if he paid himself minimum wage, he would have over $5,000. This just points out how ridiculous the government's approach is to getting people these systems that are going to save them money. We are going to change that. How are we going to pay for this program? How are we going to put heat pumps in low- and modest-income houses across the country? How are we going to help people on low incomes to afford insulation and weather sealing so they can drive down their bill and have a cost of living that is easier to afford? The answer is very simple. We are calling for the imposition of a tax on the excess profits of the oil and gas companies, which are making obscene profits and are making money hand over fist during a climate emergency. These companies are fuelling the climate crisis and making life more unaffordable for Canadians in every province and territory. This is hardly a radical idea. This is exactly what the Conservative government in the U.K. did during the pandemic. It imposed a 25% profits tax on the oil and gas industry in the U.K. They took those revenues and drove them into affordability measures for ordinary people. Not only that, but the tax was then increased to 35%. The time for this idea has come. Last week we heard from the Parliamentary Budget Officer that if we were only, as a country, to extend the very modest excess profits tax the government has placed on banks and insurance companies of 15% to the oil and gas industry, it would generate $4 billion in revenue. That could go into such programs as the one we are putting forward today to get heat pumps into the homes of low-income Canadians and help them make their homes more energy-efficient, with a proper low-income energy efficiency program. That is going to go a long way. These companies can afford it; right now the profits the oil and gas industry is making are eyewatering. I am going to provide some of the numbers. In 2022, Canadian Natural Resources had $11 billion in profits. For Suncor, it was $9 billion. I will add that Rich Kruger, the CEO, has said that the company is going to move away from climate ambition toward making even more money. Cenovus had $6.45 billion in profit in 2022. The total for Canadian oil and gas companies is $38.3 billion. This corporate profit-taking is driving inflation, making life less affordable and fuelling the climate crisis. It is time they paid for the solutions Canadians need.
1652 words
All Topics
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 10:29:36 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, my question is on how the NDP sees the GST as something that is going to be applied for, let us say, such things as hydro versus gas versus propane. Is it going to be spread across all things that are classified as heating?
46 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 10:31:40 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, I have enjoyed my time working with my Conservative colleague in this place. We have put forward a motion today that would make life more affordable for Canadians right across the country and that would have a measurable impact in Canada's fight against climate change. I believe that all of us as opposition parties should be not only in opposition but also in proposition, that we should push for the ideas that make this country better, that help Canadians in their daily lives. That is what we would be doing with the motion: taking the GST off all forms of home heating, making it easier to install heat pumps in homes across the country and putting an excess profits tax on the oil and gas industry at a time when it is making record profits.
138 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 10:33:15 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, it is a fair question. The answer is that we would take the GST off all forms of home heating. Of course, for electricity, people receive only one bill. There is only one power meter on their house, and, essentially, the measure would take the GST off all electricity used domestically. Domestic electricity use is also an essential, and it is a cost that Canadians face. This would be a way to make life more affordable for them. For people in Quebec, in my colleague's province, who use electricity for home heating, this would make a substantial difference in terms of affordability.
105 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 10:44:29 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, on the issue of people who heat with electricity, over 80% of Quebec heats with electricity. My first question was whether this covered electricity. The member for Skeena—Bulkley Valley said yes. My next question was how we would differentiate between heating with electricity versus playing with a PlayStation, which uses electricity. The member said that it included all of it. How is that fair to people who live in Manitoba who heat with propane, but also have electrical bills? They do not get the GST off their electrical bills, because their home heating is not part of that electrical bill. Could the member explain to me how the NDP has crafted this motion in such a way that it would make things even more unfair? My question comes from a sincere place. I want to understand why the GST would be removed from their entire electrical bill if people happened to heat with electricity. However, if they heat with propane, they would still have to pay GST on their electrical bills.
175 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 10:47:46 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, we will agree on one thing: The Liberal government is currently in chaos on these issues, like a chicken with its head cut off that has no idea where it is going. However, I disagree with my colleague. There are fundamental differences between us and the Liberals. We want to remove the GST on all forms or types of heating to help all Quebec and Canadian families. I am not sure my colleague is aware, but there is no carbon tax in Quebec. Their solution is therefore unfair. It will not help Quebeckers. Furthermore, the Conservative Party does not even think there is a climate change problem. They think everything is fine, and that all we need is more fossil fuels and to pollute even more. That is the Conservative Party. In the NDP, we are fighting this.
140 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 11:14:04 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, the member brought up an excellent point which, quite frankly, I had not even thought of until she said it. Not only does this motion call on Galen Weston to not pay GST on his home heating, but for those who live in an apartment where one's heating is included in the rent, they are not benefiting from this either. It is an excellent point. The NDP members are going to have to come to terms with the fact that when they crafted this motion, it was not well thought out. I understand what their intentions were, but the way they crafted this motion just did not work. They would be much better off calling on the government to bring in programs to support lower-income Canadians, not to support Galen Weston, but to support people who could genuinely benefit from this. I really think that this motion needs a do-over.
155 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 11:31:12 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, I was a bit surprised by my colleague's speech. Generally, Conservatives are not too fond of taxes that apply across the board. In his speech, the member said we need to take taxes off all forms of home heating, yet he says he is going to vote against the NDP motion to remove the GST from all forms of home heating. Why does he want to maintain the GST? Why is the Conservative Party in favour of maintaining the GST for all Quebeckers and Canadians?
88 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 11:31:50 a.m.
  • Watch
Madam Speaker, New Democrats continue to contradict themselves. Just yesterday, they voted for our Conservative motion to take the tax off all forms of home heating for all Canadians. In their motion today, they are talking about only the GST portion. Let me make it clear again. New Democrats tabled this motion, but what will happen when the next budgetary measure comes forward? The Liberal plan is still in place, and they will vote for it at the end of the day. They talk a big game in every part of this country, but when it comes to their voting record, they will prop up the government. After eight years of the Liberal-NDP government, they cannot afford it, and Canadians know they are going to prop up the same failed plan of the Liberals and the NDP once again.
140 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 12:09:15 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, I listened with interest to the Bloc member's comments. I thought I heard a couple of red herrings in there. One concern that the Liberals also raised is about how there might be some wealthy person in Canada who would benefit from having GST removed from their home heating. I am not really concerned about that, as long as they pay their taxes. The other one is the high cost of these programs. Would the member support an excess profit tax on the oil and gas companies to help pay for things so that others can afford their heating and get off fossil fuels?
107 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 12:26:57 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, I am glad to hear we have quorum in the House. I will go back to the fact the NDP has been fighting for a long time to have GST removed from all forms of home heating. In fact, there have been multiple motions that the Conservatives have made in the House that we have tried to amend to make sure we could see the GST included in these—
72 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 12:34:17 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, the NDP is saying, in essence, that for all forms of heating, people would not have to pay GST. There is a considerable amount of confusion on this. If they say that electricity, natural gas, propane and heating oil will be exempt from the GST, two issues come to mind. One is in regard to the fact that a lot of those products are used to do more than just provide home heating. Therefore, is there a way that the NDP would compensate or take that into consideration? The second issue is whether this would be of a permanent nature. Is it something that would be for six months? During the summer, for example, would the GST still be taken off?
123 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 12:35:17 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, Seth Klein said this, “The fed NDP have a motion coming forward Tuesday trying to shift the debate caused by the Lib's boneheaded carbon tax carve-out. This motion lays out a far better approach. This alternate motion calls on government to eliminate the GST for all forms of home heating, including electric, offer free heat pumps and energy retrofits for low and middle-income households and pay for it with revenues from a windfall profit tax on oil and gas companies.” I will be listening to Seth, and I thank him.
97 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:06:02 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, the GST was brought in by Brian Mulroney, and the HST was later brought in by Stephen Harper. These are regressive taxes because they punish consumers. They also increase costs, which is an inflationary element. We have had many elections, and we have fought in the House, in this chamber, to eliminate the GST, but no one has ever acted on it. At any rate, we have reduced these taxes on certain essentials for Canadians. Why not just reduce it on this essential, which is home heating in this case, as there is a history of members reducing the GST on many different essentials?
106 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:34:52 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, I am wondering whether the member could provide some clear indication of what the NDP policy actually is. Is the NDP proposing to get rid of the GST on all aspects of home heating, everything from electricity to oil, propane and natural gas, permanently and even during the summertime? Is that the intent?
55 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:35:26 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, it is kind of obvious. Yes, that is what the New Democrats are proposing. I said in my speech that the GST was never meant to be charged on the necessities of life. We do not pay GST when we go to grocery stores and buy food. However we heat our homes in Canada, and we have to do so, we pay energy bills, whether to electricity companies, natural gas companies or oil companies. We pay GST on that, and we should not. Yes, the NDP is asking that we take the GST off our home heating costs, even in the summer. Maybe in Winnipeg, people have to heat their homes in the summer. I do not usually in British Columbia. That is what we are proposing.
129 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:51:41 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, in looking at the NDP motion, one of the first things that comes to my mind is that the biggest benefactor of the motion is actually Canada's wealthiest 1%. When we think about what they are proposing, we would be giving the biggest break on GST to Canada's 1% wealthiest. Would my New Democratic friends recognize that as being factual? The government has demonstrated, through the grocery rebates, that there are other ways we could support Canada's middle class. Why would the New Democrats want a permanent disposal of the GST on home heating when the biggest benefactor would be Canada's wealthiest 1%?
109 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:52:34 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, I find it disingenuous for a member to rise in this place and to speak as if New Democrats would be attempting, in some way, shape or form, to ask for a break for Canada's 1% when speaking to the direct need Canadians have in relation to the price of heating their homes. The member is fully aware of the fact we already do this for groceries. One can go into any grocery store today and see there is no GST on any of those groceries. We, as Canadians, understand that is a need. Canadians need to feed their families, and that is so important to their survival. The same is true with heating. We need to see GST removed from home heating so Canadians can heat their homes. The consequence of not doing that is their pennies would be even further pinched. The risk from that is they would fall behind. The ultimate risk is they would not have a home that is heated. New Democrats stand against that and invite the member to join us.
180 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:57:22 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague from Edmonton Griesbach for making some important distinctions and bringing some clarity to an otherwise obfuscated debate. I wonder if he wants to take a just little more time to elaborate on why removing GST from home heating would be a better idea and on the problem the Liberals have created by introducing a regional schism into the carbon pricing program.
68 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border
  • Nov/7/23 1:57:50 p.m.
  • Watch
Mr. Speaker, I thank the hon. member for Elmwood—Transcona for his hard work and his incredible contributions in this chamber. To my own knowledge, in much of this, he is a good teacher and a very wise person. I am sure that many in the chamber have benefited from his wise advice. To make it very clear, New Democrats believe that taking GST off home heating is important because we represent Canadians as far north as Nunavut, for example, and as far south as Victoria, as well as everywhere in between. What we know about those Canadians and their experience is that winters get cold. Those cold winters imply that we need to ensure that the cost of heating is as low as possible. One way to do that is to remove GST from home heating. That is going to affect more Canadians, put more money back into Canadians' pockets and actually ensure that home heating is as low as it can possibly be. The government, at that time, will stand with Canadians. New Democrats, especially, stand with Canadians. We hope that the government and the Conservatives will also stand with Canadians as we contemplate removing GST.
199 words
  • Hear!
  • Rabble!
  • star_border