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Mr. Clifford Small (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, CPC)

Oct/6/23 10:26:31 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Mr. Speaker, I heard the member for Sydney—Victoria talk at great length on the consultation with indigenous peoples on Bill C-49, which is very important. Not long ago, I spoke with one of his fellow Nova Scotian colleagues, who reiterated the same, so I asked him about consultation with non-indigenous fishermen. His response to me was, “Who cares about them? Why are you looking for trouble?” Does the member for Sydney—Victoria agree with his fellow Nova Scotian Liberal colleague that consulting with non-indigenous fishermen is asking for trouble?

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Oct/6/23 10:27:13 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on the contrary, our direction of making sure that we are looking at clean energy and clean wind energy, as well as our commitment to the environment, is going to help all fishermen in the Atlantic. We heard loud and clear from the United Nations, when I was out there at the conference in the spring, that the stocks and all the fisheries are jeopardized by climate change. Unless we have a plan for the environment and for climate change, we do not have a plan for the fishermen who rely on those industries. It is important for us to understand that all benefit from our shift to the green and clean future, especially the fishermen of Newfoundland, Nova Scotia and Cape Breton, where I am.

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Mr. Martin Champoux (Drummond, BQ)

Oct/6/23 10:28:07 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Mr. Speaker, I congratulate my colleague opposite on his speech. His commitment to the environment is beyond any doubt. As for Bill C-49, I have many questions. As I read this bill, it struck me as a great way to conceal malicious intentions around oil and gas development. Wind energy is great. Saying that we are going to produce green hydrogen is great. That is the positive side of the bill. However, is it not true that the bill sugar-coats a bitter pill? The bill appears to promote wind energy, but is it not true that its real intention is to allow twice as much offshore oil and gas production and development down the road, as announced soon after this bill was introduced? I would like to hear what my colleague has to say about the double-talk around this bill.

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Oct/6/23 10:29:00 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am always concerned about where we are heading in this country and in our society, but I know we have to take those first steps in the right direction. We have listened to indigenous knowledge from indigenous elders and indigenous leaders; they have told us that we need to do more for our environment and that we need to look out for future generations. This is why I believe that the heart of this bill is looking at renewable energies, the power of hydrogen energy and what we can do to make sure we have a sustainable future for our children. While we know there are still fossil fuels that we burn and there are still cars out there being driven, we have to step in that direction, so that is what I remain committed to doing.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/6/23 10:29:53 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it was a tough summer for Halifax and Nova Scotia in general. I would like the member to reflect upon his government's policy for cell service. Back in 2018, there was a failure here in Ottawa on cell service related to a tornado and other weather conditions. This summer, we saw continual failures to provide accurate and accessible cell service by the large conglomerates. The member's government has been lax on rolling this out. At the Standing Committee on Industry and Technology, in 2018, we pulled them in for hearings, and most recently, the minister had them come forth when Rogers had an outage. However, we still do not have adequate and reliable service, which has been very costly for the citizens of Nova Scotia. What is the government going to do next?

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Mr. Jaime Battiste

Oct/6/23 10:30:41 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I agree with the member opposite. Cell coverage and cell service is not only an important luxury to have but also an essential service for reporting, such as when we have hurricanes, fires or floods. Cell service and those alerts are very important. We need to do what we are doing with the grocery stores: We are calling the grocery store CEOs and saying that we need them to do more. We need the telecom companies to do more, and I think all parties and the government can agree that we need to go to these telecom companies and say that this is an essential service for our ridings and community members and that we need them to do more.

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/6/23 10:31:29 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is an honour to rise on Bill C-48, an act that would amend the Canada-Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts. At the end of the day, this is about renewable projects that will start to move forward. Coming from my neck of the woods in Windsor, Ontario, with the auto industry, we have seen Canada fall from number two in assembly in the world—

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Mr. Todd Doherty

Oct/6/23 10:32:00 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49 Bill C-48

Mr. Speaker, I rise on a point of order. I just want to give our hon. colleague an opportunity to correct himself. I believe he is standing up talking on Bill C-48 and the topic today is Bill C-49.

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The Deputy Speaker

Oct/6/23 10:32:09 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Please make sure that we are speaking to Bill C-49.

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Mr. Brian Masse

Oct/6/23 10:32:14 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Mr. Speaker, I appreciate that my colleague is listening to me, so that is good. It is Bill C-49. I appreciate the correction. We would not want that to stand in the record here. I want to talk about the connection to my community and renewables and also what is taking place with this bill in Atlantic Canada. I asked my previous question about 911 calls that were dropped because we saw the east coast suffer significantly from the climate change that we are witnessing across the globe and across Canada, everything from wildfires to rain and other types of flooding events. Even in my region, there are consequences with the Great Lakes, in southern Ontario. I think it is important, when we do public policy, that we start to remediate and look at some of the consequences of poor actions by Conservatives and Liberals in the past when it comes to the telco industry and communications, which are paramount in this. I have spoken many times in this chamber about the fact that we are in our current problem with regard to cellphone and, especially, rural service, because we chose certain actions. This government and the previous government set up an auction process for our spectrums. They gobbled up around $23 billion from the spectrum auctions since 2000. They are then making Canadians pay some of the highest prices because we do not have a telephone bill of rights. Where did that money go? Successive governments, from Chrétien to Martin to Harper and now to our current administration, have raked all that cash in. At the same time, we have had no regulation on prices and accountability. The accountability part is important because, in 2018, we witnessed a terrible situation here in Ottawa, with regard to tornadoes. We had special hearings about that, because 911 was out for a period of time or was reduced in service and quality and so forth. Even this past summer, the same thing just took place again in the Halifax region. Shame on us for not forcing the telcos to provide better, reliable service. It is interesting, because the minister, in the Rogers thing, picked up the phone and called Rogers. He said that when he speaks, Rogers is going to actually listen and do something. It sounds like the grocery store plan that he has right now with the CEOs. We know it did not work because Rogers recently sued the Competition Bureau and the tribunal process. It is getting Canadian taxpayers' money for the Competition Bureau fighting for Canadians against the acquisition of Shaw. We have a system in place that has run amok. Under climate change, the consequences for communication are real, as we move quickly away from land lines, especially with the cost of operations. People cannot afford cellphone plans like family plans and a land line any more. Then other services are not available any longer. It is a public interest aspect that is critical to our public policy, because the spectrum auction and the way that we roll out and have these companies abuse Canadians can all be taken in-house here. We have seen other countries do that, but we will not do it because they lobby so hard and they basically have a hands-off policy. We do not have a telco bill of rights, which the NDP has been fighting for. We do not use a spectrum auction to make sure that we have lower prices, better access and higher accountability. We have not done any of those things. I am worried that, with this bill here, we still have public policy with this void and the gap in the difference, which we could actually improve as transition takes place with climate change. One of the things that has taken place in my region is with the auto sector. I was mentioning the transition in the auto sector. In my region, we were number two in the world in assembly and we have dropped to eighth. We have had to fight back most recently. Without a national auto policy, we have been slow off the mark for transitioning to a greener, cleaner auto industry. We did our first press conference, with Joe Comartin and David Suzuki, in Windsor, on a green auto strategy back in 2006. That is also when I showed the film Who Killed the Electric Car?. That was an original GM vehicle; it was a clean, green machine that they took off the market. We are finally seeing some good transitions. Yesterday, we had the Parliamentary Budget Officer in front of industry committee, and I was asking questions. We have recent announcements on Volkswagen and Stellantis, which add up to about $28 billion. The Parliamentary Budget Officer mentioned that these returns would not be as quick as the government was saying. It was really good to get at that during the hearing. We realized, through the testimony, that it was still a better deal than the Trans Mountain pipeline. He had to look at the two situations, as requested. The Trans Mountain pipeline is already up to $31 billion, has fewer jobs connected to it and has greater environmental degradation related to it. Meanwhile, on the Volkswagen and Stellantis deal, the money is only guaranteed, for the most part, if there is battery production. We have to meet it because our free-market American friends have brought in the Inflation Reduction Act. They are massively subsidizing their capital investments in the auto industry and other factors. In fact, they are just ramping it up. I was at the national state legislatures meeting this past summer. The year coming up and another year after that will have the Democrats and Republicans spending more money than ever before, and doing it through corporate subsidization. That is allowed because of our situation regarding a trade agreement. All we did was match what the U.S. did for Stellantis and Volkswagen, and thank goodness. This is a good shout-out for our UNIFOR workers who have been at the forefront of the transition for the economy for auto from day one. Dave Cassidy, John D'Agnolo and others in my region have been at the forefront making sure that we actually have a green transition economy and we get some of the new plants. That is important because those vehicles are shipped primarily within Canada and the United States, and other parts of the world, and we will start being able to compete. The point is that, at least with that transition, we are going to see some improvements in the job guarantee components and the subsidy. Some of it goes to capital operations, but the vast majority goes to production. We did not want to put him on the spot by asking which investment he would choose, between this and Trans Mountain, but it is just basically out the door all the time. There are no qualifications on any of that whatsoever. It was an interesting conversation yesterday and it fits well with what we are trying to do with climate change and reducing emissions on vehicles. The auto industry has been one of the more centralized themes, in its producing and creating, as one of the toughest things that we have to change but it also offers some potential solutions. If we look at some of the products that are coming out now from the auto industry with this transition to batteries and so forth, it is also becoming generators and capacities within people's homes. We have other subsequent issues that we can apply our vehicles to in our houses to reduce emissions. There is a new future with that coming forward. That applies to this act because it will help offset other areas of climate change. If we look at Newfoundland and Labrador, and Halifax, and we look at those offshore capabilities, those are also some of the things that were done in my region regarding windmills and wind turbines. They are not perfect by any means, but they are also part of the solution to advance different types of energy. Sadly, the McGuinty government at that time and then the Wynne government brought in bad policy that still lingers to this day. That is why we will have to be looking to make sure that Bill C-49 would be a solid bill at the end of the day, and have subsequent follow-through. They brought in some private sector proponents and it turned into a fundraiser when it came to the issue of the Green Energy Act that was passed in Ontario. The important aspect of this is that, when we see these projects and the subsidies going forward to them, and the policies that are happening, people feel confident in them. That is what I am hoping will come from this bill. I hope when the elements become real and substantial, people will support them. I noticed a significant difference in my community in the auto sector. We have one of the most successful manufacturing plants from the Second World War building the Chrysler minivan. It was not Stellantis, but it was Chrysler. We fought for years in this House for a basic auto policy that would be transparent, and that is what is going to be necessary for new projects in Bill C-49. I was part of the discussion yesterday when we had the Parliamentary Budget Officer in place. I noted that we had to rescue Chrysler in the past, and that led to a plant that still exists today and the government made money on it, as it was done right. Most recently, we have had some auto investment for helping General Motors and others. Had the Conservatives not cashed in the shares they got from General Motors, we would have made more money on that investment, but they cashed them out early for ideological reasons and we did not get the return we should have. I stood here in this chamber when Jim Flaherty said that we cannot pick winners or losers and could not do anything about it. Thank goodness he switched his position. I am eternally grateful for that. He was a hard worker, somebody one could approach, and he did a lot of work for Canada. He switched his position on that, which is how we rescued General Motors at that time, despite the objections of many people and parties. It was a forethought that this could open up the new investment that we are getting now not only in the Oshawa area, but in Ingersoll and other places where we see the auto return. In fact, it is coming back to Quebec. The Sainte-Thérèse plant closed a long time ago, which was a shame because our auto investment in our supply chain was critical along the lines. It was important to rescue that plant, but at that time there was no support from the government and it was unfortunately lost, but that is one of the returns we are seeing now. They are involved in new battery manufacturing, which is critical, because Ontario and Quebec manufacturing is very solid. When projects come forward, in this bill I am hoping there is also going to be the potential for other provinces to tap into some of the manufacturing, supply and servicing that is going to be required for some of the new investments for clean energy. We have seen that in a number of years in our region, as parts of the manufacturing took place for the wind turbines in Windsor and Essex County, and in other places it had to be shipped in. Some of it was shipped in from overseas, but there was a lot domestically produced, so we have an advantage hopefully to prepare and to be the manufacturers of the materials, goods, services and servicing. As a side topic to some of this, the planning has to be done because we are looking at energy. I am a long-time critic of the deep repository for nuclear waste that is being proposed in the Bruce Peninsula area. It wants to be one of the first places ever in the world to do this, bury nuclear waste next to some of the largest freshwater reserves in the world. Only a couple of these facilities have been built, which have caught on fire or leaked. It wants to build and bury that for over 100 million years. That is a legacy of nuclear waste that we have to factor in, so there is a decision pending on that. The government and other members have been quiet on this. I have not because I have been there and have seen what is happening. The community is being greased by the nuclear industry with respect to extra resources and a number of things. There is lobbying going on, and that is fine, but it has to be based on reasonable expectations. Ironically, the original proposal was turned down by the Saugeen First Nation, so it moved a mile off the site and proposed a new one there. The point I am making is there is a legacy cost involved in all of this, and servicing costs, and we have to build those in. That is why this opportunity in Bill C-49 is important for jobs and the economy. It is important that we try and get in front of some of the domestic work we can do. The climate change aspect is critical in this; to fight back against these things is going to take large and small projects. It is important that we feel momentum and that we can control some of these measures and have input. When people turn on the TV and see the mess that is taking place not only in Canada, but other places in the world, I get a lot of young people asking what we can do. There are a lot of things we can do regarding our own behaviour, our country's behaviour internationally, and how we respond to this. I have a private member's bill on the Ojibway national urban park to do that. It would actually create a green space that would stop flooding and soak up the negative resources with regard to the water in the spillage that can take place into industrial areas and residential areas. It would also have an effect for 200 of Canada's 500 endangered species. When we look at these projects that are taking place and go forward with Bill C-49, I am hoping they also get community benefits. I want to talk about community benefits a little because it does not have them in now, which is why local members from that area should be fighting tooth and nail for this addition. If the bill concludes with some of those elements later on, it would provide control and supports for the community. My first public meeting to get a new border crossing in Windsor was in 1998. We went for a long period of time. We fought off an American billionaire who wanted to twin the Ambassador Bridge and ram it right through the west end of the city, cutting us off. We fought off OMERS, one of the largest pension funds, which wanted to put a truck route right through south Windsor, destroying the environment with a truck route. We finally got a compromise for a new bridge. Part of the new bridge project includes community benefits on both the Canadian and American sides. Those benefits allow the community to opt in to these larger projects. It is a $5-billion project. All we could get was $10 million on both sides, but at least it was a start. It was historic, the first time it was done. However, the $10 million goes into a community fund from which other projects then emerge. There is conservation money and money for homes with regard to greening, offsetting the damage of the construction that is taking place. The inclusion of projects would build a legacy. All of those things make people feel better and stronger about the massive investment they get with regard to an energy project or something else. I am hoping that there is going to be an opportunity for community benefits to be put into this bill to ensure people there get to see what we have seen so strongly in our area. Again, the community benefits process is everything from not only the project getting done but also constant community consultation about what those things would be, and control. That is critical when it comes to having some empowerment, so the people feel stronger about the investments, and also the value when they look out and see the windmills and some of the changes that physically take place. That was a concern we had with regard to our project. What also has to happen, and the reason I mentioned the nuclear component and the legacy costs, is that we still have to look at what we do with the end of the life cycle of a windmill and wind turbine. We did have some testimony at the industry committee recently about this. I asked about those things. There is no real plan for any of that right now. We do not want to have to basically rip things down and ship them hundreds of miles away on large transportation platforms that would create more greenhouse gas emissions, just to be recycled. We have to think about a long-term plan, because as of now, Windsor-Essex County and Chatham-Kent have a scattering of windmills across them, creating green energy. Eventually, the windmills' lifespan is going to cease and they will need either refurbishment, replacement or recycling. These are important elements that we should be building into the cost of things. It is kind of the argument the NDP has been making for years on manufacturing's extended producer liability. That is critical because with public funds involved, it is not just the cost of the moment. This is what federal governments have been really particularly abusive of in the past: getting in on the capital of something at the very beginning and then walking away from the operational legacy. We have seen this in the housing industry. There are so many market rental units right now that need fixing up. I want to say that I am appreciative of the opportunity to speak to this bill, because my region has a connection through the work that has been done. I want to conclude by again saying that we have to take seriously the public infrastructure that we have. Why I started with telco on this is because climate change is going to require us to be quicker and more responsive. No longer should governments be letting the three giants run their way with the rest of Canada.

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Hon. Michelle Rempel Garner (Calgary Nose Hill, CPC)

Oct/6/23 10:51:39 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I rise today on a point of order to briefly provide additional information on the question of privilege I raised yesterday. I would like to point out that the government failed to disclose over $200,000 in costs incurred for the Prime Minister's ski trip to Montana, in Order Paper question responses, not once but at least twice. In the government's response to Question No. 1417, which was filed by the member for Mégantic—L'Érable and signed off by the then parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister and the current Speaker of the House, part (f) of the question clearly asks, “are there any costs incurred or expected to be incurred by the government related to the trip that are not included in the response to (a) and, if so, what are those costs or expected costs, broken down by item and type of expense?” The government was clearly aware of the extra $200,000 in costs that would be incurred, yet it failed to provide that information in the response. In a second Order Paper answer, this time to Question No. 1582, which was also filed by the member for Mégantic—L'Érable, the government was given a second chance to provide the real cost of the Prime Minister's trip. However, again, it failed to do so. This is a pattern. I ask that it be considered that the government misled the House in both Order Paper questions answered, and that both instances be considered.

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The Deputy Speaker

Oct/6/23 10:53:04 a.m.
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I thank the member for that. Of course we will add that to the investigation that we will be doing. The hon. parliamentary Secretary to the government House leader.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Oct/6/23 10:53:14 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Mr. Speaker, I look at Bill C-49 as an opportunity where we have consensus for a very important region of the nation. Our regions look for economic development and prosperity. I look at the accord, what we are debating today, as something that has virtually universal support. We want to see this legislation pass. We have seen numerous members of the Atlantic Liberal caucus actually speak to the legislation and its importance. Given the wide spectrum of support for the legislation, is the member at all surprised that the Conservatives seem to want to sit on the legislation or are not being outspoken in favour of seeing the legislation in the first place?

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Mr. Brian Masse (Windsor West, NDP)

Oct/6/23 10:54:09 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I cannot speak for the Conservatives on that. However, I will say that when we have an opportunity, we have to seize it, with this type of support coming from the provinces. Time is of the essence on this. Climate change is not going to wait for parliamentary procedure. Climate change is not going to wait for us and for the government to get its act together in regard to how it deals with telcos and making sure that they provide proper 911 service for people during emergencies. That is why I would like to seize upon the added value that we can get in this bill, whether that would be the community benefits I mentioned or whether that would be in being more specific in demanding that the telcos be more accountable for their actions, because people's lives are at risk.

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Mr. Stephen Ellis (Cumberland—Colchester, CPC)

Oct/6/23 10:54:54 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Mr. Speaker, I would like to highlight some Nova Scotians who might be affected by Bill C-49, even though the member for Windsor West really did not. My friend and former physician colleague Beau Blois and his family have been named provincial Woodland Owner of the Year. They have a round barn. They have Angus beef, and they are renowned in the region for what they do. I thank Beau and Laura for what they do. Next, I would like to highlight Jeremy Dobson and Justin McKay, who have created the first significant Afghanistan memorial in my riding. Finally, I offer heartfelt condolences to my assistant Holly Miller, whose father, sadly, has passed. Her father, Gary, would have been significantly affected by Bill C-49. I am thankful for the opportunity to highlight those folks.

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Mr. Brian Masse

Oct/6/23 10:55:48 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am sure they are really good people, and it is nice that we know their names, but we never heard anything about the effect on them. I would say that the most important issue to the member is to really know and pronounce in Parliament the effect on them, because that is where we want amelioration for those who are affected. That is critical. When there is change taking place, there could be some negative offsets for people's lives and businesses, and so forth. They should be respected for that and compensated.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Oct/6/23 10:56:25 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-49

Mr. Speaker, here is my take on Bill C-49. Climate change is like watching a bathtub that is about to overflow. Relying on offshore wind power would be like using a spoon to try to empty the bathtub. Meanwhile, this bill keeps the tap running full blast. That is what this government is doing, because it is going to double oil production off the coast of Newfoundland. I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on Bill C‑49. Aside from the local benefits and spinoffs he mentioned, is this a bill that will really help tackle climate change at last?

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Mr. Brian Masse

Oct/6/23 10:57:08 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think it will, because now we have support for alternative energy that we did not have in the past, which needs to be brought forth. That is part of how to actually move forward on these initiatives. It is a good, legitimate concern; there is no doubt. However, we need to actually move forward where there is consensus on clean energy. For my region, there are still very much some big concerns that were expressed with regard to wind, because of the effects on soil and potential issues underneath. These are all things that need to be kept in mind. What I have been saying in the past is that there are other expenses and that we need to make sure we plan for the legacy costs. That is where the member really needs to have the focus in terms of the comments being strong, but it also needs to be on understanding that there is a cost for all of these things in the forefront that needs to be countered as well.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Oct/6/23 10:58:00 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would like to give a specific quote to follow up with the question. This is from the Conservative natural resources critic on CBC, on September 21, 2023. She referred to the legislation “as another step in a long line of Liberal laws and policies since 2015 that appears destined to drive investment out of Canada with more uncertainty, red tape and extended and costly timelines.” This is legislation that is supported by Atlantic provinces. There is a consensus. I wish the Conservative Party would listen to what the people in the region are saying, along with the members of Parliament who are reflecting the desire to see this legislation pass. Would the member not agree that the Conservative Party needs to stand up for that region and get behind this important piece of legislation?

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Mr. Brian Masse

Oct/6/23 10:58:59 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I cannot really comment on the Conservatives and what their intentions are, but I can tell members that, in my experience, when we actually have the provinces united behind something in their region, we have to act on it quickly because that consensus may not stay. Even greening the auto energy sector was very difficult in many respects because people thought they were going to lose their jobs and they were going to be transitioned out altogether. We have seen remarkable compromise and work by the union movement to make sure they understand people want jobs, not just now but also in the future. They are willing to go through that transition and that process, at risk to themselves and their families, but they know also that the alternative is even worse because of the consequences of climate change. As such, it is critical that we move on this right now, respect the provincial jurisdictions that are there and work with the co-operative environment we have. That is going to take compromise on all parts. I will conclude with this: Once again, time is of the essence, because either the federal government or provincial governments could fall at some point, and that consensus would disappear. Then, we would lose out on the opportunity, and other people and other places would make decisions for us.

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Climate

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