44th Parl. 1st Sess.
June 12, 2023 11:00AM
- Jun/12/23 7:02:01 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I very much appreciate my hon. colleague's question.
That is the case every summer. Parliament sits later than usual. It is normal to sit until midnight before rising for the summer. However, there has been a major change: It is now possible to work virtually. With the hybrid system, it is easier to manage the situation that the member opposite described.
Second, there is something very different about the current situation. It is possible for a majority government to change the rules, but in the current situation, another party, the NDP, supported the amendment.
Also, the change to the Standing Orders was originally supported by all parties. In fact, every party uses this system every day here in the House.
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- Jun/12/23 7:06:06 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to thank the hon. government House leader for his speech and for sharing this evening. It was very touching. I am struck with the reality that every party in this House has used hybrid over a period of time. It has become a useful tool for a lot of different reasons.
Can he speak to the diversity of reasons one might choose to or need to engage virtually?
Can he also comment on the willingness of some parties to look forward rather than backward when making decisions?
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- Jun/12/23 7:06:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will give some direct circumstances that some people may not think about. One is talking to a parent whose kid is going through something really hard in school and really needs mom or dad to be there for a few days. That is going to make a huge difference in their mental health and development. I hear from members who have a loved one who just got terribly devastating news, and they are able to leave immediately to be there for that and still uphold their responsibilities.
That is not something I have seen one party use; that is something I have seen every party use. That is why I would ask members to reflect on how they have used these provisions, how important they are, and to set aside the politics, do the right thing by supporting this motion and these changes so we can continue with hybrid.
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Mr. Speaker, I listened intently to the member's speech, and I find it a bit rich for the member to say that hybrid is problematic because of the issues around interpretation. I noted last week that, when we were doing votes in the House, many of the Conservative members were out in the lobby, just steps away from the chamber. Instead of coming in to do the vote, they were doing it through hybrid. Worse still, they were not using the proper headsets, hindering the ability of the interpreters to do interpretation. Even though the Speaker repeatedly told them to either give a thumbs up or thumbs down for their votes, they refused to listen and talked anyway without the proper headsets. Now they are saying that it is not working.
The member talked about resources. I sit on the immigration committee. If we want to talk about wasting resources, do members know what the Conservatives did? They wasted 30 hours debating Bill S-245, on lost Canadians. so we could not get on with business. Talk about wasting resources.
On the question of hybrid, I have to say this. One would think, the way the Conservatives are talking, that the only mechanism is to use Zoom to do our business, and that is not—
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- Jun/12/23 7:53:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, on the question of hybrid, the way in which the member was speaking was almost as though the only option is for members of Parliament to not show up in the chamber here to do the work. That is not the case. Hybrid is meant to allow for people to have an option.
For example, I got COVID and had to be quarantined. What did I do? I used hybrid because it was important work that had to be done, both in the House and at committee. That is the whole purpose here, to facilitate the process so that people can use that option.
Why are the Conservatives opposed to allowing people to use different options to fully participate in the House?
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- Jun/12/23 7:54:28 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am not sure exactly what caused so many members to have challenges with the voting app.
I would point out to the hon. member that whatever concerns she may have about people clarifying their vote through a hybrid mechanism would not be required if we did not have hybrid. If members had to be here physically, then obviously that would not happen, so if she was vexed by the amount of time that may have taken, not proceeding with hybrid preservation would probably solve that problem.
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- Jun/12/23 7:58:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I know the member has had many experiences within his own benches. We have seen members of all parties be online.
Does the member agree that, when it comes to those moments when an hon. member does need to use the hybrid capacity, an hon. member is responsible for those decisions, and their constituents would, at the end of the day, be the decision-makers as to whether a member takes their responsibilities seriously or not?
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- Jun/12/23 8:51:38 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I wonder if the member can expand on the idea that work as a member of Parliament goes far beyond the work that is done here on the Hill in Ottawa. I thought the member was doing a wonderful job talking about how members of Parliament can serve their constituents by being in their riding. However, I think at times that point gets lost. There are so many events and things that are happening in our communities where members of Parliament serve their constituents best.
When I look at the hybrid, I see it as a tool that enables overall better representation of the people who elect us. I wonder if the member could provide his thoughts on that aspect of better quality representation opportunities by having a hybrid system.
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- Jun/12/23 8:53:56 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member talked about family issues that may arise for members who sit in the House. I was listening attentively to that portion. However, the member must realize that in a hybrid Parliament, should this continue on, and I hoping that every single backbencher in all parties is aware of this, that eventually we will have no constituency weeks. We have constituency weeks so that we can go to back into our ridings and hear from constituents and work on individual files and then come back here, but in a hybrid Parliament, why would we have constituency weeks?
As someone who has three young kids, I have to sit here in evening sittings, which is something that was agreed to by the other parties, and so I cannot give them a call on FaceTime and cannot talk to them tonight. However, there are issues that will continue with hybrid parliaments. We will continue getting more and more invites to events in the riding, and people in the ridings will expect us to do both works at the exact same time: do our legislative work in the House and do all of our constituency events at the same time. In fact, I see hybrid Parliament as going after whatever family time we have left right now as parliamentarians. I would like the member to comment on that.
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- Jun/12/23 9:29:50 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I have spent a lot of time trying to get young women to enter this place and get involved in politics, and often they have a lot of questions about a lot of things, like the toxicity of social media, the time requirements, their ability to take care of their kids and the work-life balance. One of the things I tell them about, which I have to say is unfortunate because hybrid is not confirmed, is what hybrid has allowed a lot of women to do in the House to do this job. It is an incredibly important voice that women bring to this place. It is not just women, but all people of different equity-seeking groups.
Could the member talk more about that and how hybrid can help?
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- Jun/12/23 9:30:52 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, indeed, that was one of the points I brought up in my speech. Hybrid allows for some of that flexibility, and we do need to get more women and more people from equity-seeking groups here in this place. Right now, for the first time ever, we have 100 women represented here. We need to find ways to encourage more people to be here, and if some of these issues are preventing that, we need to have an honest look at it, because when we do that we improve our democracy and get those important voices heard in this place.
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- Jun/12/23 10:01:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, in our dissenting report, we were open to a compromise to allow all elements of hybrid Parliament to proceed for one year. Our clear requirement was that there ought to be a sunset clause so that, one year after the start of the next Parliament, the new Parliament would have a vote on whether to maintain those provisions. This was the compromise that, as opposition MPs, we were willing to make. Although we do not particularly like the provisions of hybrid Parliament, we were willing to make that compromise in order to come to a consensus among parliamentarians, but the requirements were the sunset clause and the vote one year into the next Parliament.
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- Jun/12/23 10:28:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, back in 2017, when my third daughter, Isla, was born, my wife went through an extremely difficult pregnancy. She was hospital-bound for about eight weeks. Everything turned out fine, but I was required to be there to look after my other two daughters.
For the entirety of September and October 2017, I was forced to be at home. Of course we did not have hybrid Parliament at that time, so I missed a number of caucus meetings, votes and opportunities to represent the good people of Cowichan—Malahat—Langford. I understand its value there.
That being said, I do enjoy my time physically in this place. I actually like serving physically with members. I feel that being here in person makes our committees work properly but, again, I understand that different people who serve in this place are in different situations.
I want to tag on to the question of resources. There is a continuing problem with this hybrid Parliament over the safety and health of our interpreters. Whether it comes from people using improper headsets or speaking without them, that is a resource question. I would like to know from the parliamentary secretary, either through the Board of Internal Economy or the government itself, could he speak to addressing that very real problem in making sure this place continues to function?
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- Jun/12/23 10:29:48 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, first and foremost, I want to acknowledge that for many people there are all sorts of good, personal reasons for why we should be supporting the hybrid model, whether it is the birth of a child or issues related to a parent of a member of Parliament, and everything in between, including graduations and so forth.
What people need to recognize is being an MP is unique. There are demands that are very different. It is very much a seven-day-a-week job. MPs are often looking at 16-hour days. That is not to complain, I love what I do. I just recognize that it is different, and the hybrid model could make life a little easier, which would allow for us, ideally, to get more quality people running to become members of Parliament, and in particular more women and minority participation.
Having said that, to the specifics of the question, I do believe that we are exploring all sorts of options, including having translators who would not have to be in the Ottawa circle. There could be someone from St. Boniface, Manitoba being the translator. I hear that is being considered, and I think it is a wonderful thing.
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- Jun/12/23 10:44:44 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would like to ask my colleague opposite a very specific question, but I would first like to give a small introduction.
The pandemic forced us to innovate. It forced us to make greater use of technology. Let us think of our families who are benefiting from it today. During the pandemic, my children were able to learn at home without missing a class, and my wife, who is a teacher, taught from home. We adapted.
This week we saw a Conservative member with a baby in his arms. It was beautiful to see that and to think that it is possible to work from home, from time to time, while looking after one's family.
Can the member opposite tell us that technology has come a long way and that today it is time to move to a hybrid system?
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- Jun/12/23 10:46:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Calgary Shepard for his remarks. As usual, they were clear and intelligent.
He addressed a very important issue, in other words, human contact and what I would call informal discussions. That is where we get to know one another and understand each other. It is through these contacts that we can develop a rapport and negotiate better agreements, better bills for the public every day.
Everyone will say that we will be in hybrid mode on an exceptional basis. However, since there is no framework to the proposal, it will be used increasingly more often and people will no longer come in person. That is what worries me. I would like my colleague to address that and tell us what he thinks.
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- Jun/12/23 10:59:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would argue that the interests of Canadians is best served by having a hybrid Parliament, as has been suggested in a motion that the Conservative Party has indicated it would support if there was a sunset clause where it would have to be reaffirmed three years from now.
Does the member not see anything within that statement that is rather odd with respect to the Conservatives saying that they will accept the changes if we put in that sunset clause, which, in essence, is saying for the rest of this Parliament and at least a year going into the next Parliament that these rules would be accepted? Does he not see any inconsistencies?
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- Jun/12/23 11:01:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I really appreciated my colleague's speech. I have been here since the beginning of the debate, and I can say that few speeches have mentioned the whole issue of the interpreters and their health and safety while working in a hybrid Parliament. I want therefore to congratulate my colleague, because I share his concerns. I will speak more about that in my speech.
I am surprised by the arrogance of the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons and by the way he chose to move this motion in Parliament. He could have done it in a different manner.
I would like my colleague to address two things. First, what other approach could the government leader have taken to gain support and consensus on certain aspects of a hybrid Parliament? Second, could the member tell me who are the people most affected by the hybrid Parliament?
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- Jun/12/23 11:03:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is very clear that the majority of the House wants hybrid Parliament. The member talked a lot about consensus and building that consensus. Could he provide the House, right now, with an absolute?
We have seen many times Conservatives filibuster their way. He was talking about resources in the House being taken up, and I would argue that a lot of that has been through a lot of the filibusters by the Conservative Party. However, can he commit right now to not filibuster? We could move forward in a consensus-based way by saying that a hybrid model is what the majority wants.
Would the Conservatives not filibuster that decision so we can move forward in a very productive way to build a hybrid Parliament together?
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- Jun/12/23 11:32:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am indeed very concerned about the issue of work-life balance. I think that when a person is sick, they need to take care of themselves. Sometimes a member needs to take leave to take care of themselves. As whip, I accept that. I would not want that member to connect to the hybrid Parliament. I would want them to take care of themselves. If a member of my caucus is taking care of a sick family member, then I accept that they are providing this care and that they will not be participating virtually because they need to focus on the person they are helping.
In 2010, I was the deputy whip and my mother attempted suicide. Does anyone really think that I wanted to participate virtually? Of course not. I wanted some time off to be completely focused on my family member.
In closing, I sincerely believe that there are plenty of things that the government could do to show that it really cares about work-life balance. For example, committee meetings should not be held on Fridays. That is hard for families. Now, with the hybrid format, we are obligated to hold those meetings. The government could review the parliamentary schedule. That would have a very tangible effect on the lives of families and those who live farther from Parliament Hill.
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