SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 174 - Mar/28/23

Mar/28/23 10:20:21 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to recognize that the member is joining us in calling for the listing of the IRGC as a terrorist organization. I would just like to see other members of the government, if they want to meaningfully show solidarity with the Iranian community and stand with the freedom movement, join us in asking their government to list the IRGC as a terrorist organization. It is a responsibility of members of Parliament to speak out for truth and justice, and to hold their own government accountable when there is a lack of action.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, CPC)

Mar/28/23 10:20:52 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, let us start with the obvious: The IRGC or Sepah, as it is known in Farsi, is a terrorist group. It has been a terrorist organization for decades, since 1979. It has been organizing terror campaigns in the Middle East, both against opponents of the Iranian Islamic regime in Tehran and also against its own people. It has been successful at intimidating and bullying, but also at murdering its political opponents wherever they are, whether they are in Europe, in Africa, or in the Middle East, including right in Iran. We have seen this ever since September 2022, after the murder of Jina Amini, a Kurdish woman from the city of Saqqez. She was visiting Tehran when she was picked up by the morality police for not wearing her hijab properly. When they noticed that she was Kurdish, that led to her eventual beating and murder by the regime, which then kicked off the mass protests in her home town of Saqqez, and then the worse protest in Sanandaj, which had the worst repression by IRGC militiamen. I was looking on ChatGPT, which is a fancy little AI program, and I asked it what is a great Yiddish proverb on doing the right thing. ChatGPT gave me this one: “To conquer the world, the best tactic is to be a mensch”, meaning a person of integrity. The government needs to be that personhood of integrity in this case. In 2018, the Parliament of Canada passed a motion calling on the Government of Canada to list the IRGC as a terror group. A person of integrity would have listened to Parliament then. They would look at 2022 and 2023, today, at the ongoing protests, because they have not ended. Many protesters have been executed. Many protesters have life sentences that have been given to them for the simple act of standing up for the democratic and human rights that they are entitled to by their very creator. Just by being, they are entitled to these rights: to disagree with their government and to protest peacefully on the streets of whatever city they want in Iran, something that many of them have not been able to do since 1979, since the mullahs of Khan took over the country and led it down a dark, dark path. There are names I want to mention, because I have been told repeatedly by Iranians, including Persians, Kurds, Baloch and Azerbaijanis who live in Iran, that it actually matters when we mention names in this House. The Iranian regime is worried that we will mention protesters, human rights activists and democracy activists because it will save their lives, so I am going to start with a few. Nazila Maroufian is a 23-year-old journalist. She was actually a journalist with Ruydad 24 and she was one of the first to cover the story. She interviewed one of the parents of Jina Amini and, for her troubles to get the truth out, she was jailed. She was put on a show trial at first, then released and put on a new show trial. Her sentence is two years in jail and a five-year ban from leaving Iran. She is one of those victims of the IRGC and I am calling on the Iranian regime to release her. There are many names that we can see on the Hengaw Organization for Human Rights list. This is a human rights group working in Iran itself that, for decades, has been describing the different crimes being committed by the Islamic regime against all the people of Iran, often targeting Kurds from the western provinces, a region that many Kurds call “Rojhelat”, especially kolbar Kurds. These are people, typically men, who go across the border into Iraq and bring much-needed supplies such as medicine and food. Supplies are very hard to come by in certain parts of Iran, or the costs are extremely high. These are individuals who are shot at by IRGC border guards and indiscriminately killed for the simple act of trying to bring bread, food and medication to people on the Iranian side. I want to mention two more people, whom I politically sponsored, a practice that is often done in the European Union by politicians in international governments. They are Mohammad Amin Akhlaghi and Amir Mohammad Jafari. Both of these individuals were peaceful protesters. They were simply standing up for their right just to be heard, as citizens of their country. In their cases, the first one now has a retrial; the second one was sentenced to death, which was commuted to a prolonged imprisonment and it is unclear how long he will be in jail. They are another two victims of the IRGC, so why do we not list it as a terrorist group? None of these people have done anything violent. They simply stood up for their rights. The list goes on. There was an Iranian soccer player who was sentenced to death, Amir Nasr-Azadani, for the simple act of disagreeing with his government and saying that his government was wrong in the suppression and oppression of women in Iran, and how it is doing it. That is another victim of the IRGC, a terror group. He is being victimized by the IRGC and faces a death sentence. We have often heard in these videos, and I have many Persian friends and Kurdish friends who send me these videos from different cities in Iran, women and men chanting “Jin, Jiyan, Azadi” or “Women, Life, Freedom.” It is a very basic ask that they are calling for here. We have an Islamic regime based in Tehran that is completely disconnected from its own citizens, and, what is more, it exports its violence and terrorism to other parts of the world and intimidates Canadians right here in our country. I have met with Canadians in Vancouver, Burnaby, New Westminster and PoCo who are all worried. They self-censor sometimes, because they are worried. The diaspora community in Canada has never been more united than it is right now. There was a major rally in Toronto this weekend with many speakers speaking on freedom for Iran. A free Iran is what they aspire to, including the very well-known Masih Alinejad, an Iranian American journalist. She has harrowing tales of being persecuted by the IRGC, including a kidnapping plot that was broken up by the FBI in the United States. She travels with security now, because the IRGC is actively looking to kidnap her or murder her for the simple act of standing up for the rights of women and men in Iran. This is not a regime we should do business with. This is not a regime we should countenance. This is not a regime we should have half measures with. A person of integrity would list the IRGC as a terror group. It is the last, final act we need to do. I want to mention a few more things on this particular issue and another four names, another four victims of the IRGC terror group. These come from a friend of mine, Reza Niarian, from Vancouver. The four names are Pejman Fatehi, Mohsen Mazloum, Mohammad Faramarzi and Wafa Azarbar. All four face the death penalty. Their great crime is organizing for a political party. We all know people on both sides who organize for political parties here in Canada. It is a basic freedom, the freedom of association to organize for a political purpose. They were not calling for violence or anything like that; they were simply organizing for a political party, which I think is a very basic human right. These four men are facing the death penalty in Iran. Only with a terror group in a court run by the IRGC would this be the case. There is actually very limited information being provided publicly about the charges, the evidence and the details of their case. These are another four victims of the IRGC. This is a terror group. There is ample evidence of the fact that this is a terror group and we should be listing it as a terror group. We just had the new year, Nowruz. Whatever people call it and whatever particular traditions they have around it, people in central Asia have been celebrating it for thousands and thousands of years, and I hope they spend it with family. I hope they have a happy and prosperous new year, but for the people of Iran it has not been a good start to the new year. The protests continue. The oppression continues. The random extrajudicial killings by the IRGC militia continue. These things continue, and they keep exporting that violence to other countries. Their agents continue to travel, because it is not as if they show up at the border at Toronto Pearson airport and disclose to the CBSA officer that they are working on behalf of the IRGC. They do it in secret. They continue to travel. They have sympathizers, both in our country and in the United States, who continue to intimidate Canadians of Iranian heritage, Persian heritage or Kurdish heritage. I am glad we could debate this today as a follow-up to what has been happening since September, because we continue to call on the government to list the IRGC or Sepah as a terror group. The government needs to do, as in the Yiddish proverb, what a mensch would do. I strongly believe that a person of integrity would list it immediately as a terror group. If there are changes that need to be made to the laws, the government has had since September to make them. There has been ample time to change our laws so that IRGC conscripts, those unfortunate souls who are conscripted by his terror group, would not be affected by listing them as a terror group.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Mar/28/23 10:30:32 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will get the opportunity to expand upon the point I am going to make to my colleague across the way. Right away, I am concerned that the Conservatives have chosen this, as opposed to using an opposition day so that we could have a good and thorough discussion on the issue and hopefully get some more positive results coming from a full day of debate using an opposition day. They have chosen to use a concurrence debate, which prevents us from being able to have a number of additional hours of debate on the issue of Bill C-27, which is the digital charter that deals with the privacy of Canadians. I am wondering if the member could explain to Canadians why the Conservatives continue to have misplaced priorities by not dealing with issues such as the personal security of Canadians on the Internet and by bringing forward a report like this today, as opposed to on an opposition day.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec

Mar/28/23 10:31:29 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, let us talk about misplaced priorities. The Liberals could have tabled legislation by now, which we could have been debating, on making it possible for IRGC conscripts not to be affected by the listing of the IRGC as a terror group. They have known for months and months that this is a problem, but they have not done anything about it. They have chosen not to do it. On misplaced priorities again, I thought the human rights of the people of Iran, and family members of Canadians who are persecuted, bullied and intimidated would be a priority of the House of Commons and the Government of Canada. However, the member just said it is not a priority; it is not that important. A government of integrity would have listed the IRGC as a terror group, and I continue to call on the government to do that.

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Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Mar/28/23 10:32:14 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his very interesting speech. I support the idea of banning a terrorist group, but how does my colleague intend to apply such measures? How does he intend to make the banning in question practicable?

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Mr. Tom Kmiec

Mar/28/23 10:32:34 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for his good question. Some terrorist groups are listed in the Criminal Code. What we are asking and what Parliament asked in 2018 is to designate the IRGC as a terrorist organization. That simply involves adding this organization to the Criminal Code so that it cannot cross our borders or fundraise in our country. It is possible to amend the act. We already have examples, in the House, of bills that were proposed by the government, such as Bill C‑41, that changed the way the system and the government agencies work in terms of terrorist organizations. If the government had any integrity or interest in taking such action, it would have done so already.

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Mr. Peter Julian (New Westminster—Burnaby, NDP)

Mar/28/23 10:33:33 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his speech. The situation in Iran is horrific. We are witnessing gross and systematic human rights violations. We are seeing the systematic oppression of the Iranian people. This is a very legitimate debate right now, given everything that is happening to the people of Iran. The report we are discussing was concurred in a few months ago. The government responded that it agreed “in principle” with the recommendations. However, the Liberals did not take all the mandatory steps required to act on the committee's report and implement all the measures to counter the Iranian regime. What does my colleague think about the government's response so far to the committee report, given that the report was tabled in Parliament a few months ago?

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Mr. Tom Kmiec

Mar/28/23 10:34:43 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for the question. When I see the government indicate in its response to a report that it agrees “in principle”, to me that means “no”. The government rarely says no to the recommendations of a parliamentary committee because if it did it would have to explain itself. It would have to tell us why it does not want to follow these recommendations. It is therefore easy to say it is in favour in principle when in reality nothing will come of it. In this case, in 2018, the Parliament of Canada asked the government to add a terrorist group from Iran to the list established under the Criminal Code. I believe that the government has no interest in doing that. As we keep seeing, this government does not have any integrity and it will not do this unless it is forced to.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Mar/28/23 10:35:38 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, here we go again. We have the Conservative Party of Canada playing that destructive role here on the floor of the House of Commons, and it is intentionally done. Those who might tune in and try to follow the debate would think that today is about talking about what, I would argue, is a very serious issue. There is absolutely no doubt. There is not one Liberal member of Parliament who would question the importance of the issue the Conservatives have brought forward today. Ever since the downing of the Ukrainian airline when Canadians on board were killed, in January 2020, I believe, there has been a ratcheting up of public awareness here in Canada of some of the horrible things that were taking place in Iran. Canadians were very sympathetic even before then, but that particular incident, I think, created a great deal of publicity about it that Canadians could really identify with. There is no question that it is an important issue. I want to make that very clear. It is an important issue. Is it a priority? Of course it is a priority. There are many issues around the world that Canada contributes to. Just yesterday, we were talking about Bill C-41, substantial legislation that has the support of all members of the House, as far as I can tell. After a few hours of debate in the chamber, it was unanimously agreed that we should advance it to committee. The core and purpose of that legislation is in recognizing the values of Canadians by saying we have an important humanitarian role to play abroad. If people listened to the debate that took place yesterday, they heard us talk a great deal about Afghanistan and many of the terrible things happening there today. The legislation is actually broader than just Afghanistan. The principles being talked about, even though Afghanistan was the focus, were in regard to how Canada is going to be able to advance humanitarian aid to countries like Afghanistan where there are terrorists and terrorists causing actions. The government does not need to be told these are important issues. Canada as a nation plays a very strong role in terms of its presence on the world scene. We often punch well above our weight. The legislation we unanimously supported yesterday to go to committee amplifies that. There is a limited amount of time to debate in the House of Commons. The Conservatives know that and they know full well that that is the case. They are using this particular concurrence report, as they have done previously, to say this is an important issue. No one is talking about it not being an important issue. If it were up to the Conservatives, they would have a concurrence report every day to prevent the government from being able to speak. An hon. member: Hear, hear! Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Madam Speaker, the member says, “Hear, hear!” That is the point. They would bring one in every day to prevent the government from being able to present its legislation, and then they will criticize. They will go outside the chamber to say the government cannot get its act together and cannot get its legislation through the House. However, who is preventing the government from seeing that additional debate time? Then, when we propose to sit late into the evening, they cry and whine. They do not want to sit late into the evening. Canadians are used to working a little extra, often working until midnight. As a result— An hon. member: Bring it on. Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Yes, Madam Speaker, we are bringing it on because this legislation is important to Canadians. What was supposed to be happening today? A number of members came to the House anticipating we would be debating Bill C-27. That is the digital rights legislation about the thing called the Internet. We are all somewhat familiar with it, I suspect, everyone except maybe those from within the Conservative Party. The Internet raises a whole litany of concerns regarding personal identity theft and how data is being collected on the Internet. When I asked the member across the way a question about the report, he said it is about priorities. Yes, it is about priorities. Canadians want their identities protected. It is substantial legislation, which we are supposed to be debating as opposed to participating in—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Mar/28/23 10:41:52 a.m.
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We have a point of order by the hon. member for Abitibi—Témiscamingue.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire

Mar/28/23 10:41:57 a.m.
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Re: Bill C-27

Madam Speaker, I found it especially interesting to hear my colleague talk about Bill C‑27. I am in the House today because I am interested in this topic. Unfortunately, the interpretation was not working and I would like that to be corrected.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Mar/28/23 10:42:08 a.m.
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There was a problem with interpretation. It is working now. The hon. parliamentary secretary to the government House leader.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Mar/28/23 10:42:28 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have a fixed amount of time to debate a wide spectrum of both domestic and international issues. Today members came in prepared to listen, debate and have an exchange on the issue of the digital charter because Canadians are concerned about this issue. We were going to have literally hours of debate on it. That will not happen because the Conservative Party, under motions, brought forward a report it wants to have a debate on. Yesterday, Conservatives could have provided ample ideas, thoughts and reflections on the report because we were debating Bill C-41. I do not know if any member made reference to Iran, let alone the report, at all yesterday, but it would have been absolutely relevant to have done so. What other options do opposition members have? They just had an opposition day. They wanted us to talk about a budgetary measure as opposed to talking about this issue they say is so critically important that it had to be debated today. It could have been debated a couple of days ago when they had an opposition day. They could have designated an entire day to that and had a resolution at the very end of that day, which would have forced a vote on the issue. This is part of the games Conservative Party members play day in and day out. As the Government of Canada continues to be focused on Canadians and the issues that are important to Canadians, we will continue to tolerate the games being played by the Conservatives. At the same time, we will deal with those international issues that are so critically important to our nation in reflecting true Canadian values. Last year, Mahsa Amini, a young lady in her early 20s, was in the community in Iran and was picked up by the morality police. It was later said that she had a heart attack and that caused her death. The morality police are not fooling anyone. We know she was abused and beaten, and that is what caused her death. We understand and we appreciate those true freedom fighters in Iran. They are the brave women of Iran who are standing tall. They are ensuring that individuals like Mahsa are not forgotten and that what she stood for will continue to prevail and will be fought for in Iran. Mahsa inspired the world to mobilize and to recognize that what was taking place was just so wrong. I would argue that Mahsa is one of the reasons that even members of the Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration feel the way they do in regard to Iran and what is taking place there today. It motivates individuals like myself and other MPs to stand and be vocal on this issue not only inside the chamber but also throughout our communities. The motion that came from the standing committee reads: That the [standing] committee [on citizenship and immigration] report the following to the House: In light of the downing of the Ukrainian International Airlines flight PS 752 by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard Corps— That is what we often refer to as the IRGC. —and in light of the killing of Mahsa Amini by the Iranian Guidance Patrol, that the committee demands the government stop issuing visas to all Iranian nationals directly affiliated with the Iranian Revolutionary Guard...Iranian Armed Forces, Iranian Guidance Patrol or Iranian Intelligence Organizations and that, pursuant to Standing Order 109, the committee request a response to the report by the government. That response is well under way. Mahsa encapsulated what is so wrong when we contrast Canadian values to what took place between her and those in the Iranian society who support the regime that is currently in place. We see how wrong it is. The downing of the Ukrainian airline touched Canada, as I made reference to, in a very profound way and to me, personally. Kourosh is a dear friend whom I have been meeting at the local McDonald's on occasion. He has actually met many parliamentarians because of his former role in the real estate industry. He would make presentations to members of Parliament. Kourosh's wife was on the plane that went down and, like many other victims' families, he faced the horrors of the downing of that plane. I think it is important that the Prime Minister appointed the former minister of finance Ralph Goodale to investigate the situation. We wanted to ensure a sense of accountability for that tragedy. We also worked with other governments, such as Ukraine, where the flight was headed. It was a Ukrainian international flight. The effect of the lives of those who passed away on the lives of those here in Canada is so profound. When we look at the achievements of those individuals in a relatively short time span here in Canada, they made incredible contributions. I like to think that members, no matter what side of the House one sits on, along with the broader community that follows what is taking place in Iran virtually on a daily basis, can imagine and provide sympathy for those victims. Our Iranian community is large and it is very much interested and tuned in to the issue. That is why I take offence when someone in the chamber accuses the government or myself of not having a high priority in regard to this issue because nothing could be further from the truth. The government and its ministers have been following what is taking place in Iran very closely, and it is taking appropriate actions where it can in dealing with the Iranian regime. Where I challenge opposition members is on the manner in which they feel that they can declare that an issue of urgent importance be used as a tool as opposed to a legitimate debate. The Conservatives will stand up today and reflect on this issue, as opposed to talking about the important domestic issue of the digital charter and the protection of personal information. I raised that because the Conservatives will criticize the Liberals for not allowing enough time for debate on Bill C-27 if the government needs to bring in any form of time allocation in order to get the bill through. Unfortunately, this issue today is no more a priority for the Conservative Party than it was last week when it completely ignored the issue when it had an opposition day motion. Today it is only important because it wants to disrupt the government agenda. It is an agenda that deals with personal information on the Internet. It is something I know of first-hand. We are often asked to bring concerns from our constituencies here to Ottawa, and we do believe that within our caucus. I can assure members that there is a genuine concern about information that is being collected on the Internet. I feel that the Conservatives taking away from that debate today does a disservice to those who are concerned about how the Internet collects data. Bill C-27 should be going to committee at the very least. All one needs to do is look at the government's agenda. We have a budget this afternoon and there will be budget debates. We have other legislation, and the Conservatives know it is a very aggressive legislative agenda. It will cause us to continue, as we did last night, whether the Conservatives want to or not. As long as there are other parties that understand the importance of having that debate, we will have to sit later. I want to conclude by talking about the debate on Bill C-41 yesterday. It is substantial legislation that would ensure there is ongoing humanitarian aid to countries like Iran and other countries. It is for those in the Iranian communities to know and understand that the Government of Canada, through its ministries, is following what is taking place in Iran and it is taking actions that will make a difference. We want to keep our Iranian communities not only safe but also feeling safe.

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Mr. Tom Kmiec (Calgary Shepard, CPC)

Mar/28/23 10:56:36 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I do not really have much of a question because I am not convinced I will get an answer, but I do have a commentary to make. The government is confusing, and the member is confusing, the best interests of the Liberal Party of Canada and the best interests of the House of Commons and the way we conduct business here. Members get to decide what we debate on the floor of the House of Commons. When issues come up and when there is accountability that needs to be done, like through a report, where a committee reports to the House its findings, we get to debate that here in the House and then pass judgment on it. He made a ridiculous claim that the government cannot get its agenda passed, but the whole point of this place is to debate ideas and issues on the timetable of members and not what the government wants. The government is not in charge 24-7. It does not get to tell everyone here what we are going to do and how we are going to do it. I think the Iranian community, the diaspora community in Canada, deserves to have their issues heard on the floor of the House of Commons, and I am glad we can have this debate here so they can be heard.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Mar/28/23 10:57:35 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, in the last federal election, the electorate determined that there would be a minority government. In a minority government situation, it takes opposition parties and government for things to work and move forward on a wide variety of issues. I have been a parliamentarian for over 30 years. I am not naive enough to believe virtually anything that the member just said, that it is a concurrence report and as members, we should be bringing forward concurrence reports. I understand how the timing and agenda actually work. The member might be able to fool some of the people watching. However, at the end of the day, this report is being used as a Conservative political tool in order to prevent us from having the debate on personal protections through the Internet. Conservatives can say what they want, but that is the bottom line.

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Ms. Lori Idlout (Nunavut, NDP)

Mar/28/23 10:58:42 a.m.
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Uqaqtittiji, I would like to first send my thoughts to the family of Mahsa Amini and to the Iranian people. I am not too adept when it comes to international issues such as this, so I do appreciate this debate brought forward by the member for Calgary Shepard. Given that we are paying attention to what is going on, could the member describe what Canada has done? We have said that we will not tolerate violations of human rights and terrorist activities. What has Canada done to make sure that tens of thousands have been rendered inadmissible? What mechanisms has Canada put in place to make sure that we are protecting Canadians and not tolerating such activities?

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Mar/28/23 10:59:46 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is a good question. If we look at the motion itself, it is trying to say that we do not provide temporary visas to people from Iran in certain areas. We have a system that prevents individuals who are in question, who are there, virtually, from being able to currently come to Canada. The Minister of Immigration has reinforced this. However, there are some concerns. For example, with mandatory conscription, if young males do not have any choice but to participate in the Iranian forces, should that automatically exclude them from the opportunity of ever coming to Canada? Under mandatory conscription, they do not have a choice. They have to become members. However, maybe they want to flee that opportunity. We already have the rules—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Mar/28/23 11:00:46 a.m.
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I have to go to another question. Questions and comments, the hon. Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs.

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Hon. Robert Oliphant (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Foreign Affairs, Lib.)

Mar/28/23 11:00:55 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, is the member aware of the sanctions that were announced yesterday by the Minister of Foreign Affairs? This is the 10th package of sanctions. Canada is leading the way in the world. In addition, does the member know that Canada is actually considered the second leader, if not the leader, in the strongest sanctions and measures against Iran? This includes understanding the state as a sponsor of terrorism, as well as strong sanctions that have been placed against the leadership of the IRGC. In every sense, this is a way of ensuring that Canada's leadership is strong, dedicated and committed to the women and men of Iran. Is the member aware of that?

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Mar/28/23 11:01:44 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I appreciate the comment and the question. At the beginning of my comments, I referred to how Canada often punches well over its weight in its very strong leadership throughout the world. That is recognized. In terms of its strength, I did not know where Canada is positioned, but I am not surprised by what the parliamentary secretary for foreign affairs has just listed. It amplifies, as an excellent example, the degree to which the government takes this issue seriously. One only needs to reflect for a few moments on what the parliamentary secretary said the government has already done. We should all feel good, at least in good part, with respect to that.

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