SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 168 - Mar/10/23

Mr. Randall Garrison (Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, NDP)

Mar/10/23 12:23:20 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I move that the first report of the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights presented on Thursday, April 7, 2022, be concurred in. I first want to thank my caucus for making the opening available for me to move this concurrence report, and I also want to thank, in particular, the members for Victoria and for Nanaimo—Ladysmith, with whom I continue to work very closely on matters to do with combatting violence against women. In Parliament, unanimity is a very rare thing, but fighting violence against women provides an instance where all parties have agreed. This report and its recommendations have now twice received the support of all parties in the justice committee. The statistics on violence against women in Canada are shocking and clearly demonstrate that intimate partner violence is a growing problem. At the start of the pandemic, I heard from both frontline service providers and police in my riding that domestic violence calls for assistance had increased by more than 30%. Unfortunately, this happened in communities all across the country, and these rates of violence have not decreased, even as pandemic measures have eased. We continue to lose one woman every six days to intimate partner violence in Canada. More than 40% of women, that is more than six million Canadians, reported experiencing some kind of psychological, physical or sexual abuse in an intimate partner relationship in their lifetime, and marginalized women bare the brunt of this violence. For indigenous women, the number reporting abuse is 61%, and for women with disabilities it is 55%. For lesbian, bisexual and transwomen, it is over 67%. While indigenous women account for 5% of the population, they account for 21% of all women killed by an intimate partner. Making coercive and controlling behaviour a criminal offence is not really about adding a new offence to the Criminal Code. Instead, it is about recognizing that this behaviour is, in itself, a form of violence. It is about moving the point at which victims can get help to one before physical violence occurs, instead of making them wait until there are bruises and broken bones. As femicide in intimate partner relationships is almost always preceded by coercive and controlling behaviour, this change will save lives. We should also recognize the broad community impacts that intimate partner violence has in all of our communities, not only on survivors but also on families and, in particular, on children, both in their physical safety and their mental health. I urge all members of the House to support this concurrence motion, to support the necessary legislation when it comes forward later in the session and to support the other important recommendations in this report. Let us show Canadians that we are united and that we are determined to bring an end to violence against women in this country.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Mar/10/23 12:26:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I want to thank my colleague on the justice committee and in the House from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke. This is an area that is close to my heart, and I anticipate speaking to this issue in a few minutes. It is certainly something that causes great concern. I am curious what my colleague thinks about the penalties we should be ascribing to this behaviour. It should obviously be looked at as criminal behaviour, based on the report. That is fairly clear. Would he see this as being something where we should be looking at having a deterrent effect in sentencing? I am curious to have his thoughts on that.

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Mr. Randall Garrison

Mar/10/23 12:27:11 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think what we are trying to get across as a justice committee and as members of Parliament is that there is a failure to recognize that coercive and controlling behaviour is, in and of itself, a form of violence. As I said in my brief remarks, this is really not about creating a new criminal offence. It is about moving that goalpost to where people can get assistance when they are in problematic relationships instead of making them wait until there is physical harm before social service agencies, law enforcement or whoever else can step in to assist them in escaping coercive and controlling behaviour. I think that this is where we are starting, by recognizing this as a form of violence and doing so explicitly in the Criminal Code of Canada.

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Ms. Christine Normandin (Saint-Jean, BQ)

Mar/10/23 12:28:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague for tabling the report. I would like him to address the issue of help and rehabilitation. Should we not try to find a better balance between criminalizing coercive behaviour, helping victims and potentially rehabilitating people who committed acts of coercion?

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Mr. Randall Garrison

Mar/10/23 12:28:29 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the report of the justice committee does not just deal with the legislative part, it also make serious recommendations about increasing the supports, in particular, for frontline community and women's organizations that provide assistance to the survivors of domestic violence. So, it is a package of measures that is in the report and not just adding to the Criminal Code. However, I do want to emphasize what I think is very important here, which is that we need to move that intervention point, or that help point, forward. When we can do that, it will not be really about prosecuting more men, it will be about making sure that the violence does not occur, which ends up in prosecutions.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Mar/10/23 12:29:20 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I listened to my colleague's intervention on this issue, and what struck me was when he talked about recognizing the pattern of behaviour as itself violence. All too often, it seems as though we have looked at what we often call a “crime cycle” or a “cycle of violence”, and we do not look at the antecedents themselves as violence even though those things are really part of what makes up the offence. I am very proud of my wife. I am going to give her a shout-out here as I stand up. She runs two free legal clinics that often deal with people who have been abused, particularly in the intimate partner violence setting, and people who are struggling to get away from their abusers. One of the things she reports to me that really captivates my interest, if you will, and really beckons to my concern on this point is the fact it is incredibly difficult to get police resources devoted to these types of things. I am wondering if my colleague might be prepared to comment on that. I know that the NDP might have different views on police resources and things like that, but at this point, the police are stretched very thin and sometimes it is difficult to have the resources to police this matter. This is incredibly important, and we know that so many intimate partners end up the victims of homicide. I wonder what my colleague's thoughts are on that.

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Mr. Randall Garrison

Mar/10/23 12:30:59 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, before I came here, I was a member of a municipal police board, and I am quite familiar with the challenges police have, because we leave so many social problems to them to try to deal with rather than providing the services in advance that would prevent these problems from ending up in the legal system. What was most striking to me at the beginning of the pandemic was when I phoned and talked with local police agencies. They were saying that “We have an increased number of domestic violence calls, and in many of those, we know that this will end up in violence, but with the way the law is structured right now, we have no way to offer assistance to those victims until there are bruises and broken bones.” That phrase that I have been using came from one of those police officers who gets sent to those problematic relationships. So, it was from both police and women's agencies that the suggestion came that we needed to move that point where we provide assistance closer to those times when the victims actually need it.

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Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.)

Mar/10/23 12:32:11 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-233

Mr. Speaker, I want to thank my colleague for his hard work over the years on this issue. We have spoken extensively on the need to ensure that coercive behaviour and controlling behaviour is addressed. I would ask the member's opinion on Bill C-233, which passed the House, in terms of how the bill would assist us in addressing coercive and controlling behaviour.

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Mr. Randall Garrison

Mar/10/23 12:32:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am going to turn back to the justice report and the very specific recommendations about domestic violence rather than talk about another bill today, because the motion is to get what I hope will be support from all parties in the House for moving forward on the very broad range of recommendations in the report. So, that is what I am hoping we will get to. I am hoping that this debate will conclude today so that we can have a vote when we come back and express the will of the House, which I believe to be unanimous in that we need to take further action on intimate partner violence.

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Ms. Elizabeth May (Saanich—Gulf Islands, GP)

Mar/10/23 12:33:27 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I want to commend my colleague from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke for this important debate and initiative. I would add that there is intimate partner violence where the police say they have to wait until something has happened. There are also the deaths of children who are caught up in partnership breakdowns when an intimate partner not only wants to kill his own partner, but wreak the worst kind of revenge and kill the children as well. I do not know if this aspect of intimate partner violence is on the minds of those who have brought this forward to us today. I would appreciate any comments on that.

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Mr. Randall Garrison

Mar/10/23 12:34:15 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, yes, when we held hearings at the justice committee, it was made very clear to us that we ought not forget that not only are children often used as part of the coercive and controlling behaviour, but they are also the victims of coercive and controlling behaviour. To see this kind of violence used against their mother, as it is almost always the case of men versus women, has long-term mental health impacts on children. We have tried to be aware, in writing these recommendations, of the need to consider those broader impacts, not just on the survivors, but on broader family dynamics.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Mar/10/23 12:35:00 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I will offer a comment to my colleague, especially based on what he just said. It is very important, as he mentioned, to recognize victims. If we look at the Criminal Code, “victim” is actually defined very broadly. Anybody who is impacted by an offence can submit a victim impact statement, for instance. I commend my colleague for recognizing that because far too often, children are, themselves, victims by virtue of seeing this type of violence or seeing any violence, for that matter, and part of stopping the cycle of violence within a relationship is stopping it so children do not see it any further.

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Mr. Randall Garrison

Mar/10/23 12:35:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I think one of the important aspects of this whole issue is making sure that we, as a society, clearly condemn coercive and controlling behaviour, like the attempt to deprive women of their autonomy and their ability to escape from harmful relationships. The fact that this has not been considered a criminal offence, in many ways, condones that kind of behaviour. I look forward to the day when we make that very clear statement, as a Parliament, that this is unacceptable behaviour and we can provide support to those survivors.

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Mr. Gary Anandasangaree (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Justice and Attorney General of Canada, Lib.)

Mar/10/23 12:40:24 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am pleased to speak to the Standing Committee on Justice and Human Rights' report entitled “The Shadow Pandemic: Stopping Coercive and Controlling Behaviour in Intimate Relationships”. I am grateful for all the individuals and organizations who provided evidence at the committee during its study of this very important issue. I would like to commend the committee for its comprehensive report. I also want to thank my colleague and friend from Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke for all his work on this issue. Addressing all forms of gender-based violence continues to be a priority of this government and this Prime Minister. This is a timely conversation, given International Women's Day was just this week. Coercive control in intimate relationships, also known as coercive and controlling behaviour, is an insidious form of intimate partner violence that often precedes physical violence. An abuser engages in a pattern of controlling behaviour over a period of time, eliminating the victim's sense of freedom. Abusers use a broad range of controlling conduct, including isolating the victim from their friends and family, monitoring and controlling the victim's activities and finances or threatening, belittling, humiliating or assaulting the victim. Coercive control focuses on the accumulative impact of the abuser's conduct on the victim. While we know that anyone can be a victim of intimate partner violence, victims are most often women, and this violence is commonly perpetrated by men. In 2021, eight in 10 victims of such violence were women and girls, and the rate of victimization was nearly four times higher among women and girls than men and boys. We must also consider that many experiences of victimization are not reported to the police. The under-reporting of certain types of violence, including intimate partner violence, is well established. Indigenous people are over twice as likely to experience spousal violence as non-indigenous. About six in 10 indigenous women have experienced some form of intimate partner violence in their lifetime, and four in 10 experienced physical abuse by an intimate partner in their lifetime. More specifically, 43% of first nations women, 48% of Métis women and 35% of Inuit women have experienced physical and sexual assault by an intimate partner in their lifetimes. The World Health Organization has recognized that intimate partner violence is a serious public health concern and a violation of women's rights that has profound, immediate and long-term impacts on survivors and victims and requires a multi-sectoral approach. We know that gender-based violence is unacceptable and has no place in Canada. We also know that it is a significant barrier to achieving gender equality. I want to note that the Minister of Justice raised the committee's recommendations at the fall 2022 federal-provincial-territorial meeting of ministers responsible for justice and public safety and that his officials have engaged their provincial and territorial counterparts on the issue of enacting a new offence prohibiting coercive control consistent with one of the committee's recommendations. I, for one, will be interested to learn about what this collaboration with the provinces and territories will result in. Indeed, they will have valuable experience to contribute to this issue, given their responsibility for the administration of justice, including the investigation and prosecution of criminal offences. Once again, I want to thank my colleague for this discussion that is taking place today. I look forward to continuing the work with him and all parliamentarians on this very important issue.

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Mr. Tako Van Popta (Langley—Aldergrove, CPC)

Mar/10/23 12:40:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, at the justice committee we have heard from many witnesses, including from groups that advocate for women who are victims of crime, and they have told us that, in their opinion, reducing sentences for men who are guilty of intimate partner violence is not helping the cause of women. I wonder if the member has a comment about that.

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Mr. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/10/23 12:41:07 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Mr. Speaker, I agree. Reducing sentences is not a good thing, particularly in the case of intimate partner violence. What is important is that our government is undertaking reforms that would really speak to a number of issues in our communities. Bill C-5, for example, would address issues with mandatory minimum penalties, which we know do not work. What we have done with Bill C-5, for example, was allow judges to make decisions based on the individual who is before the court that are based on a number of different personal circumstances, and I think it is smart public policy. We will continue toward reform that is meant to be smart, that is meant to address issues of serious criminality and also to ensure that intimate partner violence is not accepted, in any way, in Canada.

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Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Mar/10/23 12:42:13 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Mr. Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people of Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. I am going to follow up on the last point my friend and colleague just made, which was in regard to sentencing. I know he mentioned Bill C-5, and we may have some disagreement on minimum penalties. For instance, if memory serves, the maximum penalty for assault is five years when proceeded by an indictment and two years less a day when proceeded summarily. Does my colleague believe or agree that perhaps we need to elevate the maximum sentences when it comes to intimate partner violence? I would point out a couple of things. One is the fact that the Criminal Code talks about people who are vulnerable, and when we talk about the cycle of violence, we are in fact talking about people who are vulnerable. The second is that the Criminal Code mentions that it is an aggravating feature to abuse one's intimate partner. Given those factors, would he propose raising the maximum sentences for people who abuse their intimate partners?

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Mr. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/10/23 12:43:16 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, as the hon. member knows, the Minister of Justice is open to suggestions from all parliamentarians. What is very clear for the minister is that we need smart criminal justice policy that is rooted in evidence, and we look forward to working with all parliamentarians in this regard.

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Mr. Randall Garrison (Esquimalt—Saanich—Sooke, NDP)

Mar/10/23 12:43:48 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I was hesitant to ask questions, but it always disturbs me when the Conservatives introduce disinformation. There has been no reduction in the sentences in the Criminal Code for cases regarding domestic violence. That has not happened. It is not a fact. What is really important here is not to talk about the sentencing but the ability to use interventions that will remove perpetrators from the home and get survivors of this violence out of those dangerous situations. When this is placed in the Criminal Code, it will allow for earlier intervention. Would the hon. member agree with me that this is about prevention and not about sentencing?

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Mr. Gary Anandasangaree

Mar/10/23 12:44:31 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I absolutely will agree with the member in this regard. I know this is an important issue, and we have heard from many different organizations and individuals who have been directly impacted by it. The minister has been very clear on this a number of times when he has appeared before committee. In fact, he answered the question the member asked several months ago. He will continue to work with his provincial and territorial counterparts in order to advance smart criminal justice policy.

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Criminal