44th Parl. 1st Sess.
March 6, 2023 11:00AM
Madam Speaker, we have been hearing details about the impact this bill could have. I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on the following question. Why are we always in reaction mode?
In 2019, the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics was looking at how to separate information pertaining to social insurance numbers in order to protect citizens' privacy.
What message does this bill send? Yes, a structure exists. Yes, there are correspondents, organizations and individuals who will have more power and potential accountability, but what is behind all of this? Are the Liberals trying to clear their conscience for all the scandals of the past few years?
I would like to hear my colleague's thoughts on that.
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Madam Speaker, Bill C-26 would assist in empowering our laws and legislators to ensure there is a higher sense of Canadian confidence in the digital world, given the importance of the critical systems that are at work. Whether they are in health care services or consumer purchases, we have witnessed a great deal of advancement over the last number of years in cyberspace.
I am wondering if the member could provide his thoughts on why it is so important that legislation is brought forward to support Canadian confidence and protect privacy at the same time, and deal with the issue of the security of our Internet.
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Uqaqtittiji, given that there are concerns about our privacy rights being infringed upon and that Bill C-26 is not doing enough to protect our privacy rights, I would like to hear what the member thinks needs to happen to make sure this bill is improved.
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Madam Speaker, a 20-minute speech does not give a lot of time to go over the multitude of concerns with Bill C-26. Yes, there are a lot of privacy concerns with this bill. We have had those concerns outlined not only by the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, but also by OpenMedia.
The way we allay those concerns is that we empower committee members on the public safety committee to give this bill a thorough going-over, and to make sure those expert witnesses are brought forward so they can identify the specific clauses of this bill that are problematic. We need to give members of the committee enough time to draft the amendments.
What I ultimately want to see when this bill is reported back to the House is an acknowledgement that there is a very real threat; that the bill would empower the government to counteract that threat; and that the bill would also provide a very important layer of parliamentary oversight and accountability, which I think should include some of our dedicated public servants, like the Privacy Commissioner and others.
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Madam Speaker, when look at Bill C-26, I want to assure the member that the government has made very clear the importance of privacy rights. In fact, it was a Liberal administration that brought in the Charter of Rights, understanding and appreciating just how important privacy rights were. The legislation, which the Conservative Party is voting in favour of, and I grateful for that, is there to protect the integrity of the system. As we move more and more into that digital world, cyber-threats are very real and can have a profoundly negative impact. That is why we have to bring forward the legislation.
Given the potential threats to things such as the delivery of health care services to interactions on the net by Canadians, would the member not agree that it is important that legislation of this nature continue not only to deal with the threats but to build confidence in the system with Canadians?
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Uqaqtittiji, I agree that there needs to be better privacy protections to ensure our rights are not violated. I wonder if the member could share with us whether he agrees there needs to be greater parliamentary oversight built into the bill.
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Madam Speaker, it is my pleasure to rise in the House today to share my thoughts and those of my constituents on Bill C-26. I am very pleased to have this opportunity.
Bill C-26 is a risky and tricky piece of legislation. On the one hand, we have serious and growing issues of cybersecurity, and on the other hand, we have the importance of personal privacy. We also have questions related to government accountability and oversight. I am sorry to say that the government has not done a stellar job on either one of those fronts to date. I am hopeful that members of this House can work together collaboratively to craft a piece of legislation around what has been proposed in Bill C-26 that balances both of those vital yet often competing priorities.
I grew up in the 1960s under the spectre of the Cold War. When I was a kid, the threat of foreign attack came from the air above us, from nuclear missiles from Russia or China. While our adversaries remain the same and current events have sadly brought the spectre of nuclear disaster to the forefront again, the method of attack to which we are most susceptible today is far more sophisticated and far more insidious.
Rather than bombs from the air above us, the weapons of our enemies are in the air all around us: Men and women are sitting at computers in dark rooms, in government agencies or at the local library sending out digital viruses. These cancers attack the Internet, telecommunication waves and the platforms we have become reliant on to what I would consider to be an unhealthy degree.
That is where I will pause for a moment, because I think the best thing we can do, the first step to securing our national security and the well-being of Canadians, is what nobody wants to do, which is to take a little step backwards to take a look at this. We need to divest ourselves of our all-consuming reliance on digital platforms, devices and infrastructure, and ensure that our most vital infrastructure always has a physical fail-safe to fall back on.
Let me give an example. Let us talk about digital currency for a second. Digital currency exists. Most Canadians have a credit card, a debit card and online banking. I do and I use them; it is convenient. However, that is not to say for a minute that I think progress demands that we do away with hard currency. It is exactly the opposite. Canadians have become more reliant on digital currency, forms of digital ID, smart phones, smart cars, smart homes, smart cities, smart bombs, smart banking and smart hospitals, and the really smart thing to do is ensure that we always maintain physical infrastructure and ensure we are in control and not crippled by the worst that could happen.
Nothing is impenetrable. No matter how good or amazing the technology that we create is, no device, no platform and no code has been created that cannot be hacked. Anything people make, people can break, and if they cannot, they will develop a machine that can break it.
I was reminded of a story last week of a military computer virus called Stuxnet. Stuxnet single-handedly destroyed one-fifth of Iran's nuclear centrifuges. Actually, that is not totally correct. The worm that Stuxnet was caused these sophisticated machines to self-destruct. It got into their systems, learned how they operated and then caused the powerful turbines to spin in reverse, shredding the machines. We have artificial intelligence so advanced that it can make decisions, and the people who created the technology do not even know how the decisions came about. It cannot even tell them. It is a little scary.
Digitized records are important. We have all come to rely on them, but I believe keeping a hard copy is also important. Ensuring that we maintain a hard physical currency is very important too, as is recognizing the value of currency produced by the Royal Canadian Mint. We need to ensure that our power grid still has a physical switch and that our hospitals and banking systems cannot be crippled by a bright kid with a laptop or a foreign actor with a more malicious intent.
The government has been very slow to address cyber-threats. Under its watch, the CRA was hacked. It said 5,000 accounts were affected, yet that number turned out to be 50,000. It did not address the issue. There were lots of excuses from the minister, but what really happened? One year later it happened again, and another 10,000 Canadians had their personal data accessed by hackers. Last year, the National Research Council was hacked.
I am sure that after this past week, the government is tired of talking about foreign interference in our elections, so I will not belabour that point, except to say that we did have foreign interference in our elections. The Prime Minister knew about it and he did nothing. Worse than that, he still refuses to tell Canadians the truth about what he knew and when he knew it. Like everything else, he refuses to take responsibility. I wonder sometimes just how much longer those on the government benches will allow him to do so. I would bet that right now the Reform Act is looking pretty attractive to them.
Last year, Rogers' network went down suddenly. Canadians could not access their banking. Businesses could not function. Emergency services were affected. Rogers and the government said it was a glitch, a hack. We will probably never know for sure, but the effect was the same: chaos. That is what our enemies want, and we do have enemies, both foreign and domestic, people who want to see anarchy and to cause chaos, fear and division. It sounds eerily familiar.
What legislative response have we seen from the government to date? I am seriously asking, because when I think back over the past seven years that the Liberals have been in power, I am not aware of any substantive action, either proactive or reactive, that they have taken to address our cybersecurity and the glaring vulnerabilities that exist with respect to it. To that end, I am glad that we are now finally having this important discussion. We need to beef up our security systems, beef up our cybersecurity system and keep Canadians safe.
As the government always says, Canadians have a right to be safe and to feel safe. The obvious irony is that it only says it when it is clear that Canadians are neither safe nor feeling safe. Canadians should be able to feel safe, should be safe and should have confidence in the cybersecurity system they rely on.
My time is almost gone, and that is a shame because there are so many things we need to talk about with respect to this bill, although I am confident that my colleagues will be able to further articulate some of the concerns. However, I do want to say one word about privacy.
Many Canadians are concerned about the ever-increasing size, scope and reach of government in this country. The Prime Minister has increased the size of government by some 30%, and this bill gives such sweeping powers to the government that it has prompted numerous civil liberties groups, including the Canadian Civil Liberties Association, the International Civil Liberties Monitoring Group and the Privacy and Access Council of Canada, in addition to several other groups and academics, to express their very serious concerns about this legislation. They call it “deeply problematic” because it “risks undermining [the] privacy rights [of Canadians], and the principles of accountable governance and judicial due process”. That is a lot to unpack in just one sentence.
Had this legislation come forward three years ago, I would have probably said that it was a no-brainer and that we should get it done as national security trumps personal privacy. However, after the violations of civil liberties, even basic liberties, that we have witnessed over the past three years from the government, I would not be so eager to say that we should just get it done. There is also the government overreach, the control and the abject absence of even a semblance of accountability.
As vital as our national security is, the government, the ministers and the Prime Minister simply cannot be trusted with more power, and that is what this bill does. It gives the government of the day more power through the Governor in Council and through its agencies to establish regulations and to further limit and restrict the freedoms and privacy of individual Canadians.
It is my hope that as members in this House, we can strike the right balance after hearing from all sides and craft a piece of legislation that accomplishes everything we want and need in it. However, as it stands, Bill C-26 gives way too much power to a government that has proven time and time again that it is unable and unworthy to wield it.
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Madam Speaker, this is a very relevant question. Is it the right time for a bill like this? I would like to give a very brief answer: Yes, it is absolutely the right time for this. Is it the right bill yet? No, it is a good starting point. That is how we can look at this bill. I am happy to vote in favour of this bill, to get it to committee. I am hopeful, from the comments I have heard from members of the Bloc and the NDP, that they are eager to give this bill a robust study and make the necessary amendments that will address the cybersecurity requirements in our country to keep critical infrastructure and our citizens safe, but also to respect the privacy of Canadians. Those are equally important elements. I am looking forward to the study on this bill.
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Madam Speaker, all of those are legitimate concerns that we will be addressing at the public safety committee if and when this bill gets there. I do not know if I can rank them today, because I think they are all significant. Everybody has different issues that come to mind based on what is most important to them. Obviously, privacy is one of the most important things to people.
What I mentioned in my speech was the ability for companies to still manage themselves once these fines have been imposed. We do not want to put out of business the small and medium-sized companies that have already had cyber-attacks, and then give a fine on top of that.
There are many things we need to address in committee. I am looking forward to studying the bill with my colleagues from all sides when it gets there.
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Madam Speaker, I want to continue the line of questioning of other members on balancing the need to address cybersecurity and privacy at the same time.
One group that has shared some concerns is the Citizen Lab. It has put together a report called “Cybersecurity Will Not Thrive in Darkness” and has offered 30 recommendations for the governing party to consider at committee.
I wonder if the member has seen this report and if there are any recommendations in the report that he sees worthy of going ahead with. He may not see them all as worthy of going ahead with, but are there some recommendations that he thinks we should pursue?
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Madam Speaker, today I will be talking about the bill we have been discussing for the past few hours, Bill C‑26, an act respecting cyber security, amending the Telecommunications Act and making consequential amendments to other acts.
From the outset, I would like to mention that in 2019, when I arrived in the House of Commons, the topic on everyone's lips was the data breach at Desjardins. To put things into context, at the time I was a member of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. I was determined to find out how we might protect privacy and decorrelate the social insurance number that we were using far too readily as a means of identification. My colleagues see where I am going with this.
It took a scandal for the government to do something about this. Now I am no longer a member of the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics, I am vice-chair of the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs. Again, it took a scandal being uncovered by the media for the government to truly listen to us.
This is a case of being lax when it comes to the security of the electoral process and national security. I am addressing all those who are listening to us; I hear their concerns. For the past six months, the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs has been looking into Chinese interference in our electoral process. It is likely that there will be an announcement in the near future that will once again demonstrate that we really need to sound the alarm to get things moving. Of course, the Bloc Québécois will always be vigilant. The Bloc Québécois will be there every time it is important to get to the bottom of various allegations or scandals. We will force the government to take action for our constituents, because they deserve it.
In light of all that, it goes without saying that Bill C‑26 is a step in the right direction. The bill introduced by the Minister of Public Safety aims to strengthen the security of Canada's telecommunications system. That said, I want to be honest. I have serious concerns. Over the past few years, my confidence in the government on security issues has been eroded. The government must not stick its head in the sand. Quebeckers need assurances. They need to be assured that this paternalistic and so-called well-intentioned government is doing its job, particularly in its areas of jurisdiction. That is all we ask and all we expect.
We know that China, Iran and Russia can be considered hostile powers that do not wish us well. When someone does not wish us well, we have to protect ourselves. The government absolutely has to come up with systems to guard against what we have seen since the latest scandals. We demand an explanation, and answers are to be expected, yet the government says everything will be fine and we should move on to other things. Unfortunately, our constituents feel betrayed and lack confidence in this government because it is not taking things seriously, as all the numbers indicate.
Regarding what is going on with Beijing specifically, I wonder if there is something we do not know. Why are we taking action so late in the game? Why are we always reacting? I am fed up with all this dissatisfaction. Every time I go back to my riding, my constituents want to talk to me about this, and I get why they are feeling discouraged.
As members know, I will be going to the United Kingdom. We are going to be taking a look at the procedures in different Commonwealth countries so we can implement other countries' best practices with respect to national defence and protection against interference in our elections.
I know that when having discussions with my colleagues, I am going to have to tell them that the process is ongoing even though the British and the Australians understand the situation and have taken action. The Americans, too, understand and are taking action. I am wondering if our closest allies, our Five Eyes partners, still have confidence in us.
For quite some time, the Bloc Québécois maintained that the government needed to tighten control over broadcasting. That is unequivocal. It was part of the discussion on the Huawei and 5G infrastructure file. We continued to call out the government for its indecision, which went on too long. This proves once again that we were right. However, international pressure from our closest allies was needed to make the government take action.
Everything is always so urgent. Urgency seems to be an imperative that really drives this government. We would like to see the government change its ways and become more proactive rather than reactive. With Bill C-26, I think we finally have a starting point. Obviously, there is a lot of work to be done to go further in terms of accountability, in terms of the legitimacy of disclosure on all sides, so we can prevent situations like the one we are in.
I agree that it is a noble goal. Of course I agree with everything about the security of our critical systems. Do we have everything we need right now to deal with both internal and external threats? The answer is no. That is what we have been told and what we continue hearing, at both the Standing Committee on Procedure and House Affairs and the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics. We must act. This bill must be quickly sent to committee to be fine-tuned and given some teeth. It is urgent.
I am making a wish and sending it out to the members of the government. I am asking them to always keep in mind our collective security. I trust that they will. We have faith, but we need to be proactive, smart. We also need to talk to our constituents, to speak to people's intelligence. They have suggestions. The G20 countries have good practices that we need to adopt as quickly as possible. We need to set aside partisanship in the interest of our democracy. We need to ensure that the legislation resulting from Bill C-26 really makes people feel safe and lets them know that there is a public, non-partisan institution there to watch out for threats.
The bill names six public organizations that will be given the power to order investigations to make sure things are being done right. I am talking about the Superintendent of Financial Institutions, the Minister of Industry, the Bank of Canada, the Canadian Nuclear Safety Commission, the Canadian Energy Regulator and the Minister of Transport. These are critical sectors of our society and our economy. We must not take threats lightly. Is this enough? We will need experts to tell us whether this is truly legitimate, both for whistle-blowers and for the dissemination of information, because people need to know.
Since I only have about 30 seconds left, I would like to say to those who were just here that the government took action with regard to TikTok because, once again, there was an urgent need to do so. I hope that any future interventions will be undertaken proactively.
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Mr. Speaker, I listened closely to the speech by my colleague from Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier. The first thing he mentioned is that the Conservative Party of Canada was a great defender of cybersecurity. I want to remind him of the following.
First, the member for Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier supported Jean Charest as a candidate in the Conservative leadership race. Jean Charest worked with the company that was complicit in China's interference. So much for credibility and being a great defender.
Second, a quick Google search shows that the CPC App that the Conservative Party of Canada used during the 2019 election is a version of the uCampaign app, which is used in the United States and requires access to contacts and geolocation, things that relate to privacy. Cybersecurity researchers were actually advising against using that app.
When it comes to credibility and being great defenders, are the people in the Conservative Party of Canada really people we can trust?
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