44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 25, 2021 10:00AM
- Nov/25/21 10:08:52 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I ask that all questions be allowed to stand.
The Speaker: Is that agreed?
Some hon. members: Agreed.
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- Nov/25/21 10:12:57 a.m.
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Mr. Speaker, in relation to the consideration of Government Business No. 1, I move:
That debate be not further adjourned.
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- Nov/25/21 10:15:17 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, first, what we do not know at this point in time is how many folks in this chamber are unvaccinated. This is an answer that will not be given right now.
Why does that matter to someone who is immunocompromised? Because that risks his or her health. The point is that when somebody who is unvaccinated gets in contact with somebody who has COVID-19, which, by the way, happened last week in the Conservative caucus, the person is supposed to go into isolation. That did not happen. Therefore, we do not know whether somebody is in here who is unvaccinated, who did not isolate. Maybe the person did isolate, but the Conservatives will not tell us any of this.
Here we are on the third day of Conservative obfuscation. We still have not gotten to the business of the nation. Instead we are debating whether or not the sky is blue. We are debating basic science, which is that in a workplace, can we work in person, yes, but also virtually. The member claims that he cannot work in person. Did he not read the motion? Did he not see he could come here every single day? Has he not heard my comments that said ministers would be in their seats and would answer his questions in this place?
What does he have a problem with?
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- Nov/25/21 10:18:05 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, my hon. colleague poses a good question. The reality is that we all worked very well, and I will go back to that. I hope that maybe by taking a step back we can remember how together, at the Board of Internal Economy, though at the time I was a whip dealing with the other House leaders, we dealt with finding consensus and agreement about what had to be done in the global pandemic. With the administration of the House, we were able to create a system that worked, that allowed members to work remotely and safely and be in this place in person, and we were able to do so with unanimity.
My problem today is that we are still in a global pandemic, during which 30,000 Canadians have died and five million have died globally. There is no reason we cannot have the flexibility in our workplace to ensure that people can be here in person and have the opportunity to work virtually. I am saddened that we are now taking two days of House time on this. I will come back to this, because I have a sense that I will have that opportunity, but we are blocking the priorities this Parliament needs to get done.
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- Nov/25/21 10:20:22 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member is absolutely right. The Bloc Québécois has been quite reasonable and continues to be reasonable. All the conversations we have had with Bloc members have been based on science.
I understand why the Bloc Québécois is asking us about the number of ministers who will be here. However, the current situation is different from previous situations. When the pandemic was hitting us a lot harder, we obviously could not have as many people present here in the House.
The situation is less acute at the moment, so we can now have people in the House. I can say with confidence that the ministers will be present in person to answer questions.
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- Nov/25/21 10:22:33 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, when any allegations are placed against any member or any individual, they should have the opportunity to furnish evidence in their defence and should have the opportunity to be heard. This is not a place where a member uses their privilege to hide, to make allegations and say things as if they are fact.
Let me be very clear about what the process was in every single instance when I was whip. In every single instance that an allegation came forward, we would ensure there was a rigorous process to look at whether the complaint had validity. In the instance a complaint had validity, obviously it was going to be acted upon. In the instances where the 360, the environmental assessments, determined it did not, then that was a different story. Those things are not to be adjudicated on the floor of the House of Commons.
All members of Parliament may from time to time find themselves involved in allegations against them. I could list members from the Conservative Party or other parties who have faced this. The place to adjudicate those matters is not on the floor of the House of Commons, which I say is a matter of principle. The place to adjudicate those matters is in an HR forum, where it is—
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- Nov/25/21 10:25:16 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I truly appreciate the opportunity to work with the excellent member opposite. It is a great pleasure. As whips, we have had the opportunity to work together many times and to find common ground.
As to the issue before us, we are not talking about a hockey game. In the case of a hockey game, people are travelling locally to the stadium. In the House of Commons, people come from across Canada, from Vancouver to Newfoundland. Furthermore, they do not come for just three hours, they remain here for several days at a time.
People in poor health do not have a choice, they must come to work. That is not the case for a hockey game in a stadium. Vulnerable people can watch the game on television.
If the motion is not adopted, we must come here, and that is not acceptable.
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- Nov/25/21 10:27:39 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is incredibly important that we not focus on our individual personal privilege, which this debate seems to be a lot about. When I look around and see who works here, like the pages, House administration, staff, journalists and indeed MPs, my concern first and foremost is their safety.
To the member opposite's question, at the Board of Internal Economy I think we have to rise to the highest and best standard. We have to ensure that every person here is safe. We have to ensure that the policies we choose, as a chamber that is supposed to provide leadership in the country, do not debate basic science and do not cast doubt about other workplaces where people are working in large numbers all across the country. Whether this should be a place that has a vaccine mandate does not seem to be the thing we should be focusing on. That should be something that we should have agreed with so that we were dealing with the four major priorities: the bills that we have to get done in this Parliament.
Instead, we continue to debate whether the sky is blue. We continue to deal with this obfuscation. Instead we should be asking questions such as the one the hon. member is asking, about how we can ensure this is the safest workplace possible.
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- Nov/25/21 10:29:45 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the member for Winnipeg North is absolutely right. The odd situation here is that if somebody, for example a Conservative MP, who contracts COVID-19 needs to go into isolation, or the people who are unvaccinated from the Conservative Party and are in contact with said person need to be in self-isolation, the position of blocking a hybrid Parliament actually blocks the privilege of the members they are talking about protecting.
On a point of privilege, if I could continue that point, I think that privilege should start with the most vulnerable. Let us remember that a member who feels comfortable being in this chamber and who is fully vaccinated has every opportunity to be in this chamber. Nobody would block them. However, a member who is vulnerable, who is immunocompromised and who does not feel safe does not have that ability. I believe in a workplace where vulnerable people are put first, and where their interests and the interests of their health are placed first.
When we are talking about personal privilege, we do not start with our own personal privilege. Rather, we look at those who are most vulnerable and ask about their privilege and how they, as members of Parliament, could be protected in carrying out their duties. That is what I would like to hear about. I would like to hear from the members opposite about how they are caring for the most vulnerable in this place and ensuring they can do their duty.
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- Nov/25/21 10:31:47 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, what is not clear to me is how many Conservative members are unvaccinated. Is it one, two, three, four, five, six or seven? They will not say how many of them are not vaccinated.
I have a real problem when members who will not tell us whether or not they are vaccinated talk about how safe it is because people are vaccinated. When people get on an airplane they are vaccinated. They know that everybody around them is vaccinated without exception.
Now that we are in this chamber I do not know who is vaccinated. I look across the way and I do not know who has done the responsible thing. I do not know who has done the irresponsible thing. I do not know who they have been in contact with. I do not know if they are following public health measures, because they will not answer basic questions. Yes, that makes people feel uncomfortable in this place. Absolutely, as in any workplace, no employees should feel unsafe in their place of work. They should be supported.
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- Nov/25/21 10:34:31 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, with a hybrid system, members are able to participate in debates here in the House any day of the week if they so choose. That is not an issue. They can also participate virtually if they would like, which is why I do not understand the argument that there are problems. The member is correct that we must work hard for Canadians. There is a lot to get done, and we can do this work in person or remotely. The system worked very well during the pandemic. We can continue to use this system. I have already explained that the minister will be here in person to answer questions.
Again, I ask, what is the problem?
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- Nov/25/21 10:36:23 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the hon. member is right.
Both the government and the House have major priorities. The number one priority is the people who are being affected by COVID‑19 and who need immediate help. That is what we should be debating now, not the science or other things that are so obvious.
In hospitals, frontline workers are working so hard every day to protect all Canadians. However, it is easy to threaten these people at the hospital, making it harder for them to do their jobs, so we need to address this issue.
There are other priorities, such as the ban on conversion therapy, which is essential. This is the real priority for Canadians, and it is an issue that we can work on today if the opposition is willing.
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- Nov/25/21 10:38:35 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is absolutely clear that the pandemic is not over yet. We are in the midst of the fourth wave, and there may be more.
It is very important that members are able to debate subjects such as this, and that includes the most vulnerable members. It is their privilege. In my opinion, it is essential to have a system where the most vulnerable members can vote and participate in committee meetings, question period and all aspects of Parliament. A hybrid system makes that possible. Members who are not vulnerable or who do not have any issues can come to the House. There is no problem with that. They can ask questions in person. The minister will be here for them.
What is the problem today? Why are we still having this debate? It is a big waste of time.
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- Nov/25/21 10:40:24 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I struggle to understand the question, but I will try to answer it in a couple of ways.
First of all, we have rules and regulations that govern this place. One of them is the tie that I wear today. On Thursdays I happen to choose a bow tie, but that is permissible under the rules of this place. I am required to wear a tie to stand in my place. There are many other rules in this place. I am going to be limited in how long I can speak. I am not able to continue speaking for an unlimited time, and some members are excited about that rule.
However, let us talk about rules we should really be excited about, the ones that protect our personal safety, the ones that keep this workplace safe. I am not just talking about for members of Parliament. At the end of the day, the members who are here, including you, Madam Speaker, put our names on a ballot. With that, we accept certain risks, but it is really abhorrent to me that the situation of the employees here, the journalists and the pages, who may themselves be vulnerable, is not considered, and that some of the members opposite are unvaccinated. They will not say how many.
The member talks about the fact that people who are double vaccinated could work in a workplace. What about them? We do not know how many people are unvaccinated. This is a workplace where we expect people to be vaccinated.
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- Nov/25/21 10:42:36 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, the pandemic is very difficult and we are all very tired. This has been going on for a long time, and I do understand the member's point. However, we must continue to work safely and ensure that everyone is safe, especially in terms of their health.
As for the issues with interpretation, I am not stopping the Board of Internal Economy from unequivocally reiterating that the rights of French speakers are essential, as are services for everyone who speaks French. That is quite simple.
Unfortunately, my French is not great and I make mistakes. I do, however, understand why we need a good system for everyone who speaks French better than I do.
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- Nov/25/21 10:44:31 a.m.
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Madam Speaker, I guess the thing I feel at this time is frustration more than anything else: frustration that we are continuing to have this debate. I can guarantee the members opposite that if they take time to talk to their constituents and Canadians, none of them are saying we should spend two days debating whether or not a vaccine mandate is appropriate for this place. All of them would agree that it should have been dealt with by unanimous consent, but here we are, debating if the sky is blue and if dirt is where plants grow. I do not know why we are debating basic science.
All we are asking for is a safe workplace where people can come in person if they feel comfortable, or people can continue to use the provisions that worked perfectly well during the pandemic to ensure that we have a safe workplace for everybody who works here.
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- Nov/25/21 3:20:58 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, that is an excellent question. I love questions, but I especially love the Thursday question.
I can say that tomorrow we begin debate at second reading of Bill C‑2, an act to provide further support in response to COVID‑19, which was introduced yesterday by the Prime Minister and the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance.
On Monday of next week, we will resume debate on the COVID-19 economic measures legislation. On Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday, we will have a debate on the address in reply to the Speech from the Throne.
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