Thank you for being here, minister.

I’m sure members here and senators, in general, work hard to get the law passed and into the books as quickly as possible. This particular institution has been an incredible success. In my ten years here, it’s probably one of the most heart-warming things I can look back on and say I watched the progress of this institution, being led by the dream team from British Columbia, in all the efforts of Mr. Calla, Mr. Jules and others. It is just remarkable to see.

We have an institution now that is really looking at governance and the economic matters like finance, infrastructure, taxation and land use. My question to you, minister, given the success of this, what are you thinking about, and what are you and your folks looking to initiate in other areas where Indigenous-led institutions are sorely needed, such as education, health and justice? Are there any green shoots in those areas that you could share with us, or is this some kind of a one-off miracle that won’t easily be replicated, and there is nothing on the horizon?

I think calling it a “miracle,” with all the work that has been put into it, it has been a lot of hard work, like you said, over almost two decades to get to a space where we are celebrating — as mentioned by Senator D. Patterson — Indigenous big business. There is a tendency to talk about Indigenous small and medium business in an almost belittling fashion, but Clearwater has put Indigenous big business on the map. There have been a couple of others. There are probably a couple that preceded it, but I have forgotten.

With record revenue and profit in Clearwater this year, you see Indigenous peoples can exceed non-Indigenous businesses, and that’s kind of cool to see, and I think it has been an inspiration to communities that don’t have fishing as part of their own livelihood, because they see some of their brothers and sisters across Canada that are really succeeding.

It’s not for everyone, but when you ask me about where I see green shoots, you see them in areas that you wouldn’t necessarily expect as government, and nor should you, because the government dictating the pace has had repercussions that have been measurably poor.

For example, when we make large legal settlements with communities for historic harm, I have often heard — and you expect to not talk to people for a few weeks as they celebrate something that is really transformational for their community, but sometimes the next thing you hear is, “Well, how do we move on self-governance, and how do we move on a modern treaty to really embody our relationship and move forward?” Because that historical trust gap has been bridged through a settlement of a claim, for example, that has sometimes been unresolved for a hundred years.

So there are offshoots. When you see these large sums of money being resolved for years and years of harm, these aren’t one-offs, and they do spring trust in a relationship, and they do propel discussions about self-governance and about autonomy, which is at the heart of this, people taking care of their own. And we’ve seen as a proof point through COVID that when Indigenous communities have the resources, they can have better results in fighting something like a historic pandemic than we have for the rest of Canada, and that is demonstrably proven by statistics when you look at mortality rates.

They are occurring all over the spectrum of Indigenous engagement. Where I would like to see more work being done — and I think the Minister of Justice would agree with me — is on Indigenous justice, and that’s something where you see a lot of demand and a lot of work being done.

I think you described it well; you do see shoots popping up.

Minister, I have two senators that have questions if you can indulge two more questions. One is from Senator Hartling, and one is from Senator Klyne.

Minister Miller, I’m fine. I think you had to leave.

I have a cabinet meeting, so I may get in trouble.

There are other people, I am sure, who can answer the questions, if you need to go.

Thank you.

Senator Klyne, would you like to get a chance, since you are leading this bill in the Senate?

While we have him here, and I know you’re in a rush, and I apologize for being late, but welcome.

I have a broad question, and it’s with some breadth, but I want to get into a little bit of depth on it, so the question is for you, Minister Miller.

Bill C-45 furthers economic reconciliation going hand in hand with rights recognition, economic and social equity rights included under the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples, also referred to as UNDRIP. Can you please speak a little bit about how you envision economic reconciliation proceeding in Canada in the years ahead, going together with UNDRIP, and there are particularly exciting aspects for all of us, such as critical minerals for mission net zero?

Can you comment on that but also speak to the links between Bill C-45 restoring self-determination, including trade and commerce, and how in the process it will benefit not just Indigenous peoples but lead to shared opportunities and benefits for the entire country?

That is a good question, and I think we could probably spend a couple of hours on this, Senator Klyne, but this is self-determination in action. When you talk about a partner, and we talk about a nation-to-nation relationship and a partner like the Government of Canada, in the work that I do on a daily basis, paying bills that have been due for about a hundred years is very important in bridging the trust between Canada and a number of Indigenous communities. Indeed, this is something that we’re doing in record amounts, but it needs to be seen in that optic, because how do you trust a financial partner who doesn’t pay their bills? And that has been the story of Canada since the beginning of, in particular, the signing of the numbered treaties and with all the treaties that we have signed. It is something that has contributed to the undercapitalization of communities and their maintenance in poverty.

So when I talk about economic reconciliation, I am very conscious of the fact that it can’t be used as a catch phrase. For someone to walk into the most prosperous community in Canada and say, “This is how everyone else needs to behave,” it really has to be driven by communities themselves and work with the Government of Canada in an atmosphere of trust with the tools that are available and the tools that are being built by communities themselves.

It would be odd to see everything even across the country. People would probably scratch their heads as to why that is. There is a lot going on that, first and foremost, starts with Canada recognizing its historical duties to Indigenous communities, but also making sure that they do have, apples to apples, the levers available for them to thrive, whether that’s breaking down barriers or truly respecting Supreme Court decisions when you talk about moderate livelihoods or all of the instruments that are available to them under treaties that have not been respected; also, financially with respect to instruments where they do not have access to capital that would be available to people simply by virtue that they are non-Indigenous.

That is some of the discussion we have had in and around the Canada Infrastructure Bank, and how it would mesh with the First Nations Infrastructure Institute and how that is perceived, generally, in the public eye. You touched on that when you asked your question.

A number of communities in and around Canada are drivers of economic activities for the non-Indigenous communities around them and not the reverse. That is important to know. They are large employers of non-Indigenous people; that is no truer than in the Clearwater case that we have talked a lot about today. The more we do that, the more we see the interconnectedness of our economies and opportunities for communities to thrive.

In the role that I play, and the role that Minister Hajdu plays, it starts with basic notions of a just and fair country. When we’re talking about what Minister Hajdu’s role is in Indigenous Services, making sure that the education levels are those that are at or exceeding those of non-Indigenous communities in Canada. They are profound socio-economic issues that can’t be separated for the general discussion about simply economic reconciliation.

Thank you, Minister Miller. I know you have to leave. Thank you for coming today. I appreciate your testimony. We look forward to working on this act as expeditiously as we can. Thank you.

On second round, I will let Senator Hartling ask the first question. Mr. Duschenes or any of the witnesses can help answer.

Thank you for being here, everyone. It is wonderful to have a bill that sounds like a win-win. Enthusiastically, I know some of the people whom I spoke with earlier, they are excited about this.

As we have heard many times here, trust was always a factor with First Nations, how to build trust. Can you give more detail on the process, the co-development process? What were some of the steps and challenges? Senator Greenwood talked about that. I’m curious to hear more about that because, as we go forward, it sounds like other First Nations have an opportunity to join in at any time. Is there any limit to the time they can join in, or not? A little more about the process of the trust building and how this went, thank you.

Thank you, senator. Yes, it is a pleasure for us also on the bureaucratic side to be associated with a winning piece of legislation. That certainly makes our job easier and much more fun.

On the trust process, what has been exceedingly successful and gratifying here is taking the cues and the leadership from the distinguished First Nation leaders sitting behind me, whom you will get a chance to speak to in a little while. The trust is generated between them and us, as civil servants, but probably more importantly between them and the communities they serve and work with.

I’m sure some of the leaders will make reference to the way they interact with the communities, but also that they have held a series of annual gatherings called First Nations Leading the Way, which bring together the scheduled nations to this act and also the communities that are under 10-year grant and the communities who are signatories to the First Nation Land Management Act, where 200 to 350 representatives come together to have discussions about institutional development, this piece of legislation and build that trust and confidence, so that by the time the leaders are interacting with us that trust has been built within many communities.

Chief Allan Claxton is here as well; you will get a chance to speak with him, and Jason Calla from the First Nation Infrastructure Institute’s Development Board. That is an interesting example, before the institution was created, the development board of distinguished First Nation leaders has been going coast to coast meeting with communities, other infrastructure organizations — meeting with the First Nation Water Authority, for example, in the Atlantic — building that trust and having those discussions.

The trust has been generating on FNII for many years through putting in place of that development board very effectively.

Can people join in? There is no cap on time? They can continue to join in?

Or cap on numbers. One of the expansions in the act here will permit non-Indian Act bands, other organizations, eventually to join as well, to create regulations for them to join. There is a process already with regulations being developed for self-governing First Nations and modern treaty holders to join.

There is not only not a cap but the tent is growing as more organizations become eligible to benefit from the services and advantages of the act. The First Nation Infrastructure Institute services will be available to anyone, any interested group, whether they are scheduled to the act or not.

Thank you. It’s a wonderful way to celebrate National Indigenous History Month.

Mr. Duschenes thank you for your clear answer to my question about long-term funding, A-Base funding. The source of this funding is stable, federal funding sources. Your minister said the grant-based model won’t go away.

You might agree that for the significant projects that we hope will come out of these progressive amendments, 10-year commitments would be more appropriate for long-term strategic planning purposes. You have been clear. There are three- and five-year commitments. Could those not be extended further, with the stability that this act will provide, for 10 years?

Those decisions are not ours to take. We are always open to that discussion. Lynne Newman and others are here from Indigenous Services Canada, who have led a successful process for First Nations band councils to be under 10-year granting. Having those discussions internally, and with the institutions — and with the minister as to how that could be expanded to others — yes, we are interested to have those discussions.

Thank you. If Ms. Newman, or anybody else, would like to amplify on that in writing, that would be helpful.

I want to thank everyone. That brings this panel to a conclusion. Thank you to all witnesses for coming. As was mentioned, it is good to see so many witnesses on such an important bill.

We have four groups here this afternoon for the second panel from the First Nations Finance Authority, Ernie Daniels, President and Chief Executive Officer; Steve Berna, Chief Operating Officer; and Jody Anderson, Strategy and Partnerships Advisor. These folks are online. We also have, from the First Nations Financial Management Board, Harold Calla, Executive Chair. We have the First Nations Infrastructure Institute represented by Allan Claxton, Development Board Chair; and Jason Calla, Technical Team Lead. And from the First Nations Tax Commission, Manny Jules, Chief Commissioner.

Thank you to all witnesses for joining us on this very important bill. Each organization will have five minutes to make an opening statement. I would invite people to be succinct, because I’ll have to use the five minutes. I sense that there is a lot of support for this bill in the room, so the most important thing will be the questions that follow. I will let you guide yourselves accordingly.

Good morning. Thank you. I apologize for not being there in person. With the board meeting yesterday morning and major delays in my travel, I would have gotten there at 3:00 in the morning. I experienced that already, and I don’t like it. Please excuse me for that.

I would like to thank Leane Walsh and her team at CIRNAC, the First Nations Tax Commission, the First Nations Financial Management Board and the First Nations Infrastructure Institute’s Development Board for working collaboratively on these amendments to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, also referred to as the FMA over the last several years.

The First Nations Finance Authority is a non-profit organization whose mandate is to provide financing, investment and advisory services to those First Nation governments across Canada that voluntary schedule to the FMA. The FMA obtained Royal Assent in 2005 with all parties’ support, and the FNFA has been providing services to First Nation governments across Canada ever since.

To date, there are 342 First Nations that have been scheduled to the First Nations Fiscal Management Act, and the FNFA has loaned over $1.8 billion to its membership of 151 First Nations through nine provinces and the Northwest Territories. This has resulted in the creation of over 20,000 jobs and an economic output of $4 billion, which demonstrates that we are stronger together, but certain economic and social needs of our member communities can only be met through amendments to our act.

The FNFA strongly supports Bill C-45 in principle. It brings significant, positive change that will lead to enhanced opportunities for First Nations and Indigenous governments across Canada. There are several amendments that are most relevant to the FNFA, for example, the financing secured by other revenue regulations will be incorporated directly into FMA. Bringing the provisions of other revenues directly into the FMA will result in a comprehensive FMA that is much easier to follow.

Another example is that the definition of a “borrowing member” is expanded in anticipation of eligibility being expanded to Indigenous governments and non-profit organization, or NPOs, though other regulations will still be required. These important entities provide essential economic and social services to First Nations.

With 634 First Nations across Canada, it is important to note that there is not a standard method for planning needed infrastructure or for undertaking economic development. Some First Nations make all community decisions at the council level. Other First Nations utilize not-for-profit authorities, for example, health, water, housing and education, and some utilize tribal councils, where many First Nations work together for economic opportunities. The proposed amendments will have significant positive impacts for First Nations.

Thank you and mahsi’cho for your time and consideration.