Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, we heard more explosive evidence on “ArriveScam” last week at a House of Commons committee.

Thank God for the Conservative opposition for trying to hold this government to account. For that matter, thank God for the Conservative opposition in this new independent Senate. It seems this is the only group who is really preoccupied by “ArriveScam.” We’re the only ones asking any questions of you.

Last week, the committee heard again from the only two senior bureaucrats involved with this faulty and fraudulent scheme that the chief technology officer, Minh Doan — who oversaw the whole thing — deleted tens of thousands of emails related to “ArriveScam.” Yet, he received a promotion within your government, and the two whistle-blowers are the only two people who suffered consequences. That’s how much you care about getting to the bottom of these allegations or innuendoes, or whatever you call them. Why is that, Senator Gold? Why is your government protecting Minh Doan? Is it because he was following the instructions of the Trudeau government, and now you don’t want him to point fingers back at this government?

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, the only thing your government is doing is trying to obstruct the parliamentary committee from getting to the bottom of things. You’re deleting emails and preventing us from obtaining answers to simple questions. Senator Gold, “ArriveScam” has been slammed by the procurement watchdog and the Auditor General, and it is currently under criminal investigation. Are they all partisan as well? We know that, at minimum, at least 10,000 Canadians were mistakenly sent to quarantine by glitches of this shameful app. Senator Gold, how can your government — in good conscience — continue to fight these Canadians in court and hold them to huge outstanding fines in relation to what we now know was a fraudulent app?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, last week, I asked Minister Duclos who is responsible at the Canada Border Services Agency, or CBSA, and Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, for verifying outside consultants and subcontractors. We saw disturbing information this morning in The Globe and Mail about how $54 million of taxpayers’ money has been spent on ArriveCAN — on consultants who not only fudged their CVs but fabricated expertise for companies that, it seems, do not even exist. Given that information — and the fact that your government, since 2015, has increased spending on outside subcontractors and consultants by 74% — how can you possibly justify all this?

Can you tell this floor who in the Trudeau government is responsible for vetting these contracts? At the end of the day, ArriveCAN has become a fraud, a fiasco and an “ArriveScam.” Who is accountable for this?

Senator Housakos: No one is being held accountable, but we know there are all kinds of investigations because this whole thing stinks. Senator Gold, while we still have a lot to learn about the rot that is “ArriveScam,” one thing is abundantly clear: Hard‑working, law-abiding everyday Canadians are facing exorbitant fines associated with this get-rich scheme for Liberal insiders — Canadians like Mr. Milad, a local tailor here in Ottawa, who was returning home from visiting his family in the Middle East and will now have to close his shop to travel to Montreal for a court date, costing him tons of money, Senator Gold.

When will your government do the right thing — while these investigations continue — and at least cancel the outstanding ArriveCAN fines that Canadians are being saddled with?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader.

Senator Gold, I’ve been asking questions regarding ArriveCAN for two years now. I’ve asked about the unconstitutionality of leaving Canadians stranded overseas. I’ve asked about Canadians being unlawfully quarantined. I’ve asked whether your government would finally do the right thing and cancel the outstanding fines levied against Canadians. Every time, no matter the question, you regurgitate the same talking points that the Prime Minister’s Office, or PMO, sends over here. It sounds good, but it’s completely irrelevant to the questions being asked. Senator Gold, I’m putting you on notice that those answers just won’t wash.

Very simply, this is my question: why? When she was in the middle of her own investigation, why was the Auditor General of Canada not informed that the RCMP was also investigating allegations of fraud pertaining to the ArriveCAN scam? Why did the Auditor General have to find out about the latest criminal investigations into your government through media reports?

Senator Housakos: Senator Gold, as if it isn’t bad enough that the Auditor General wasn’t informed of the RCMP investigation into the “ArriveScam,” last week when she appeared at a House committee, your Liberal-NDP government shut down her testimony after only a few minutes — claiming that she had nothing more to add.

How would your government know what she did — or didn’t — have to add, Senator Gold? What do you know that the rest of us don’t know? What is your government hiding when it comes to this?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate.

Senator Gold, yesterday we learned that the Royal Canadian Mounted Police is investigating the outsourcing of a Canada Border Services Agency contract involving the same companies at the centre of the $54 million ArriveCAN boondoggle. This is the same boondoggle that saw Canadians, who were exercising their right to return home, slapped with fines as high as $8,500. Then they were threatened with more fines if they were caught breaking the quarantine — as high as $750,000.

It was bad enough when we thought these fees were being levied to pay for your government’s complete failure in awarding this outrageous contract in the first place, but now it’s looking less like a failure and more like a deliberate get-rich-quick scheme for those with connections to the Trudeau government.

Senator Gold, what assurances can you give me and Canadians that Canadians weren’t unlawfully detained just so your government’s friends could line their pockets with taxpayers’ cash?

Senator Housakos: The only assurance that this chamber and taxpayers have is that the RCMP is looking into it. Hopefully, they’ll get to the bottom of which pockets got lined.

Senator Gold, given the latest news regarding it, will your government finally do the right thing and cancel the outstanding fines that were issued as a result of this deeply flawed and — as we now know — fraudulent app? Will you apologize to Canadians who were unlawfully ordered into quarantine despite having done nothing wrong — Canadians such as Joe Walsh and thousands of others who have been fined?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, on the very serious issue of national security, while we’re finally getting a public inquiry on foreign interference — as you know, we’re getting one because the Prime Minister was dragged into one kicking and screaming. As we also know, government leader, we are still waiting for the government to take action on the foreign registry. Of course, I suspect we will not see action until a new government is elected.

We are all aware of the very serious allegations brought forward by the Prime Minister as well in the House of Commons yesterday. Out of respect for the ongoing investigative process, I won’t comment on that or ask you to comment on that, government leader. However, it does highlight the importance of parliamentary oversight and the opposition’s role in participation in that oversight when it comes to our national security and foreign interference.

Government leader, in your answer you said to the leader of the official opposition that the Prime Minister made choices vis‑à-vis NSICOP. There are no choices to be made. There must be a parliamentary body representative of all parties, particularly when it comes to the Senate Chamber and the official opposition.

Will you commit, government leader, to go back to the Prime Minister’s Office, the PMO, and explain to them that there must be a representative from the official opposition on NSICOP? If not, can you explain to this chamber why not?

Senator Housakos: I do not need you to disclose what conversations you have or do not have with the PMO, but at least you can remind them to respect the parliamentary rules and the procedures in this chamber and the fact that there is an opposition party that has a role to play in the Senate.

Senator Gold, part of your job in this newly independent Senate is to provide answers on behalf of the government. You are supposedly non-affiliated. If we give you until Thursday this week, two days, I think that this is more than enough time to go back to the Prime Minister’s Office and tell the Prime Minister that it is unacceptable to exclude the official opposition from NSICOP. In the spirit of independence and of respecting Parliament, as I said earlier in my first question, would you commit to doing that in order to bring back some credibility to this institution and allow it to do its role when it comes to oversight?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, yesterday, in the U.S., three men were convicted of various charges relating to “Operation Fox Hunt,” which is a concerted effort by Beijing to threaten and intimidate expats living abroad in order to get them to return to mainland China to be dealt with by the authoritarian regime for speaking or acting out against them. All three men were accused of taking part in scare tactics aimed at a former Chinese official who was quietly living in New Jersey, and Beijing wanted him back.

These same operations are occurring right here in Canada. They are often facilitated through illegal police stations that Beijing is operating throughout our country. While the U.S. is busy prosecuting foreign agents responsible for terrorizing innocent people on American soil on behalf of maligned foreign regimes, we’re trying to figure out whether the minister responsible knows his left hand from his right.

Has the minister figured it out yet, government leader, and does he know whether the illegal police stations operating here in Canada are finally shut down? Why did Minister Mendicino mislead Parliament a number of weeks ago when he claimed that all operating stations in this country had been shut down? What happened?

Senator Housakos: We know the RCMP has confirmed that they exist in Canada, and we know from the RCMP that the investigations are ongoing. That’s not the question. Why doesn’t the minister know that the RCMP, which is under his responsibility, is operating and investigating while he’s saying to the House, “No, they’ve already been shut down”? That’s the problem with Minister Mendicino; he doesn’t know what is happening in his own ministry.

And while we have the Australians, the Americans and the U.K. taking seriously transnational repression and taking action, in this government we see a minister and a government that isn’t taking the same approach of seriousness and action.

Just over a year ago, I had Minister Mendicino right on the floor of the Senate Chamber recognizing the merits of a foreign registry, saying he would do something and put one into place — over a year ago. A year later, he’s still in the consultative stage. We’re still waiting for when it’s going to happen.

The question is one I’ve asked many times, and I know you’re tired of it. I’ve asked many times because we don’t get a concrete answer. The question is this: Will the minister and your government make sure a foreign registry will be put into place before the next new government of Pierre Poilievre is sworn in?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, the default setting of the members of your cabinet, including the Prime Minister, is always to claim that they weren’t briefed, they didn’t receive an email or they just weren’t told. Are these familiar lines? Mr. Trudeau said it about MP Han Dong when he claimed ignorance — we now know that’s not true. Mr. Blair said it about the threats against MP Chong’s family. Ms. Joly said it about her staffers going to a garden party at the Russian embassy. Mr. Sajjan said it about the fall of Kabul, claiming he had too many emails, and he couldn’t possibly read all of those emails. Of course, that isn’t fitting on the part of that minister; that is complete incompetence.

Mr. Mendicino has said it on numerous occasions — most recently about the non-existent closure of illegal police stations being operated in Canada by Beijing, and now about the transfer of Paul Bernardo out of a maximum-security prison.

We have two options in front of us, government leader, and there is not a third option. Either the minister knew that the information he was giving to the House and the Canadian public was wrong, and he was intentionally misleading everyone, or he has absolutely no handle on his office, and his staff is running completely amok because of zero leadership on behalf of the minister.

Either way, this is my question for you: Where is the ministerial responsibility? If he won’t do the right thing and resign, why won’t the Prime Minister — your leader and the leader of this country — do the right thing and hold the minister to account?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, thank you for highlighting the problem with your government. You just highlighted — in your talking points — exactly what I’m complaining about. It’s never the fault of the minister or the Prime Minister — it’s the employees in their office, it’s the bureaucrats who didn’t brief them or it’s their email that is too blocked up. That is the problem with your government. This government always has its homework being eaten by the dog before it arrives at school, and it has to stop. Do you know what the concept of ministerial responsibility means? I think, in this Trudeau government, there isn’t anyone left who understands how Parliament works.

I will ask you two simple questions: Can you define for this chamber what ministerial responsibility means as it applies to Parliament? And is the Prime Minister unwilling to apply ministerial responsibility to Minister Mendicino because no one has applied ministerial responsibility to him?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Government leader, the government’s answer to my colleagues Senator Plett’s and Senator Boisvenu’s question regarding the competence of Minister Mendicino is shameful. Government leader, this is the truth of the matter: The problem isn’t that Minister Mendicino didn’t announce that Paul Bernardo was being transferred — the problem is that he played dumb once it was made public, and he acted like it was the first time he had ever heard about it. That’s the problem with Minister Mendicino.

It seems to be the default setting of Prime Minister Trudeau and Minister Mendicino to play dumb every time they get called out — just as the minister was called out many weeks ago regarding his statement that all illegal police stations in Canada had been shut down, and then a few days later, we find out there are a couple of police stations still operating in our own hometown. The minister played dumb again, and, worse than that, he blamed the RCMP.

My question is very simple, government leader: Is Minister Mendicino playing dumb, or is it possible that he’s genuinely this incompetent?

Senator Housakos: First and foremost, it’s the minister himself who has confirmed that these stations are operating in Canada, and he’s been misleading Parliament about what he has or hasn’t done about it. That is what the problem is here. Again, I repeat, it’s either incompetence on the part of the minister or his staff, or he’s deliberately misleading Parliament.

The next question that bears to be asked is whether this is the reason why the minister is dragging his feet in putting into place a foreign registry, a foreign registry that if the minister and government were serious about would have already been put in place. There’s a piece of legislation sitting in this very chamber that the government is dragging its feet on and doing nothing about. It’s very simple.

Either way, when will someone be fired for the absolutely disgraceful handling of numerous files by this minister? We see a foreign registry not in place. We see illegal police stations operating in our land. We see a brutal murderer in this country being sent to a minimum-security situation just because the minister isn’t doing his job and protecting the interests of public security in this country. We can’t get a straight answer in this chamber from the Government Representative/leader.

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader, Senator Gold. It is astonishing how little the Trudeau government has done in dealing with foreign interference. Yesterday, this parliamentary chamber had the Minister of Public Safety before us, and, even more astonishingly, when asked two simple questions of when we will have Beijing’s illegal police stations closed down and what date we will have a foreign registry put into place, he could not give this parliamentary chamber an answer. It is unbelievable, government leader.

I will simplify the question for you because I know this government has a hard time with targets. I will allow you to answer broadly. Can you please tell this chamber when you will have these illegal Beijing police stations shut down, and when we will have a foreign registry put into place? You do not have to give me an exact date, but can you please give the Senate of Canada what month and what year?

Senator Housakos: Leader, everything that you just highlighted was nothing more than navel-gazing. The minister was here yesterday and, yes, he confirmed that there were RCMP investigations ongoing into the illegal Beijing place stations — the same minister who many weeks ago got up in the House of Commons and said to parliamentarians and Canadians that they were all shut down. That is contempt of Parliament. Either he misled Canadians when he said they were all shut down or he intentionally lied. I would hate to believe it was the latter.

Government leader, the truth of the matter is that we have a government that, outside of anything more than discussions, has not taken action. Now we have the minister himself come before Parliament, and he cannot answer a simple question and has actually been caught in the mistruths that he has perpetuated. First he says they were all shut down, and now we find out that they were not shut down. Now we have a vote in the Parliament of Canada asking for this fake rapporteur to step down in a democratic vote, and this rapporteur and the government refuse to respect the democratic will of the House of Commons. Do you call that democracy, and do you call that respect for our institutions of Parliament?

Hon. Leo Housakos: My question is for the government leader in the Senate. I’d like to take us back, unfortunately, to COVID-19 which was a terrible time for all Canadians, and directly and indirectly touched us all.

Government leader, I have to rise today to ask questions about Canadians who were intimidated, persecuted and victimized by the incompetence of this Trudeau government, particularly with regard to your tool — which was, on many occasions, brought into question here — called ArriveCAN or, as I called it during COVID, “ArriveCAN’T.” Will your government apologize and pay reparations to those Canadians who, despite using the app, were forced into quarantine because of glitches in the app, as well as those who presented their paper copy proof of vaccination upon re-entry to Canada but were fined for not using the app itself, including Canadians like Joanne Walsh?

What does your government intend to do? Does your government have any plans to compensate these Canadians whose right to enter this country unimpeded was breached because the Trudeau government just couldn’t admit that they messed up and their ArriveCAN “ArriveCOULDN’T”?

Senator Housakos: Government leader, on a number of occasions, I brought my preoccupation to you on this very floor while this injustice was happening to Canadians. This has nothing to do with protecting Canadians from COVID; this was just a messed up, inappropriate process — that the government put into place — that unfairly persecuted Canadians. Canadians who were exercising their legitimate right to return home were slapped with fines of as much as $8,500, despite showing proof of vaccination. They were then threatened with more fines of as much as $750,000 if caught breaking quarantine — quarantine was used as a punitive measure rather than a medical one.

Was it to pay for your government’s total failure on that ill‑conceived, terrible and costly app? You saw the bill going up and up. I asked you about that in the middle of COVID on this very floor.

Is this just another revenue grab? Is that why innocent, law‑abiding citizens were wrongfully ordered to quarantine: to pay for this government’s failure in regard to this app? Why this injustice?