44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 28, 2023
- 12:08:25 p.m.
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In that case, the other people who had their hands up can answer my questions in the next round.
Thank you.
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- 12:08:32 p.m.
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Mr. Boulerice, you now have the floor for seven minutes.
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- 12:08:40 p.m.
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Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thanks to everyone who has come here today to tell us about this extremely important issue.
I'll go first to the representatives of Save the Children Canada.
We're all aware of the dramatic events that have been unfolding for several weeks in Gaza, which is now living under indiscriminate bombardment. I'd like to hear what the people from Save the Children Canada think about this because they discussed it in their opening remarks.
What do you think are the consequences of this conflict and these bombardments in Gaza for children with disabilities? What impact will this have on their future?
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- 12:09:28 p.m.
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Sir, thank you very much for the question.
One of the reasons we chose to focus on fragile places today, especially those affected by conflict and other crises, is that, as some of my colleagues have shared, this is where children with disabilities are forgotten first. This is where they suffer the most, and this is where we are most worried.
The example of Gaza is a good one, because we've all been watching this unfold over the last several weeks. We know that the destruction that's been caused there is going to take months and years to rebuild. In the education system alone, we've seen that more than 300 schools have been damaged or destroyed, and that's more than half of all schools in Gaza. We know that more than 10,000 children have suffered injuries, and many of those injuries will be life-changing injuries. They will result in disabilities that children will be grappling with for the rest of their lives. That is not to mention the infrastructure that's been damaged. Those who have mobility issues will struggle to get to school, because many roads have been damaged over the past several weeks.
This is why we highlight the importance of addressing this, especially in places of conflict, because conflict is increasing. This example in Gaza is the most recent conflict that we've all been seeing.
Save the Children has been working in Gaza since 1953, in many cases in education. Part of why I mention this as well is that in many of these places where we've seen vast strides around education and inclusive education, conflict will set that back. It will make it a challenge for us to meet the sustainable development goal around education.
I haven't even mentioned the psychological and mental health effects of what has unfolded in Gaza, which will affect so many children there. Before this latest escalation of hostilities, we know that three-quarters of the children in the region were struggling. They were struggling to focus in school and they were reporting anxiety. Also, mutism was on the rise, where children lost the ability to speak. The impacts of conflict on children's education are immense. I think it's a critical area for us to be paying attention to. We're certainly relieved to see the pause in fighting in Gaza, and we hope that it holds.
Thank you.
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- 12:11:45 p.m.
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Thank you for your answer.
We're somewhat relieved by this cease-fire, albeit temporarily.
As you know, we're calling for a complete cease-fire.
In conflicts of this kind, the media often talk about people who lose their lives but rarely about the wounded. You're right in saying this will have very long-term consequences.
My question is for anyone who wants to answer it and specifically concerns children with disabilities living in the Gaza Strip.
What role should Canada play in helping children who find themselves in this extremely unusual situation?
I know my Bloc Québécois colleague mentioned Afghanistan a little earlier, but what should Canada's role be in Gaza?
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- 12:12:39 p.m.
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You have the floor, Ms. McGeown.
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- 12:12:48 p.m.
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Thank you very much for the question.
To add to what others have said, it's important to get the message out there about what the overall effects of this are doing to children in Gaza, and the ongoing effects for children with previous disabilities, but also now for children with new injuries and disabilities.
Canada can play a role by highlighting and being able to spread messages. Many organizations are there doing lots of important work, but finding out the testimonies, finding out what's actually happening on the ground, and being able to help, promote and explain what's happening so that people are aware are all really important.
We have a report coming out before, during and after a crisis, for example. There is also weekly advocacy on things that are happening week by week, just to update the situation, to share what's actually happening on the ground and how we're supporting children, for example, with psychosocial activities, well-being activities, and just the sheer basic needs that are required.
I think it's about being able to raise that to the fore, because as you said, this hasn't had that much of a mention. It's much more, at the moment, about the numbers of dead, rather than the additional issues that are happening. There are people who had disabilities previously. For example, they can't move from the north to the south, because there are no physical means. Everybody else is walking to the south, but they can't get there. What happens to them? They weren't able to move.
These kinds of testimonies aren't really out there in the media. I think it would be really helpful for Canada to be a part of helping to promote that.
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- 12:14:43 p.m.
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Thank you very much.
Ms. McGeown, a little earlier brought up the concept of intersectionality. To what extent should the Canadian government incorporate that idea in inclusive education for children with disabilities?
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- 12:15:17 p.m.
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Would anyone like to answer?
To whom are you directing the question, Mr. Boulerice?
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- 12:15:21 p.m.
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It's for Ms. McGeown, if possible, so she can tell us a little more about how important the notion of intersectionality is.
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- 12:15:35 p.m.
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About the notion of intersectionality in general, I think that's a really important point. I think that sometimes things are in silos. For example—
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- 12:15:54 p.m.
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Please wrap it up quickly because time is up.
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- 12:15:57 p.m.
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Okay.
The point is this: Don't just focus on girls. Don't just focus on refugees. Don't just focus on children with disability. We need to think about all of the layers, the multiple layers and how that affects a child. A child is a child who's also a refugee, who's also a girl, who also has a disability. You need to account for all of those things, not separate things.
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- 12:16:17 p.m.
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Thank you.
We will now go to the second round.
I would like to invite Ms. Damoff to take the floor for five minutes.
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- 12:16:26 p.m.
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Thank you to all of our witnesses for being here today and, more importantly, for the good work that you do around the world.
I'm going to start with World Vision.
You talked about taking an inclusive approach and how you missed the mark in one particular context. How do you make sure that we can include those with lived experience in developing programs, not just for the program in general but also the country context?
The second part would be, how does the government ensure that we're using people with lived experience when we are developing those programs? So often what's lacking is having people at the table with lived experience.
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- 12:17:13 p.m.
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Thank you for that question.
I'm going to try to answer it with one key example.
World Vision Canada is the host of the refugee education council, which brings together 15 refugee and displaced youth from different parts of the world and with different lived experiences and backgrounds across intersections. We have youth who identify as LGBTQI+. We have youth who have disabilities. This is a group of young advocates with lived experience who are coming together to help support Canada's international development sector by informing our programming and helping ensure that the work we're doing at a programmatic and advocacy level is informed by lived experience, as well as supporting the Government of Canada.
The refugee education council works very closely with the minister and with Global Affairs Canada. Many of you around this table have had an opportunity to interact with them. It's a very strong example and a prototype of what this work can look like and what it can look like to actually bring folks with lived experience in the room to help ensure that nothing is done for them without them. I think that, especially when we're talking about the most marginalized, we need to create space for different types of knowledge, and different types of data as well. Knowledge informed by lived experience in this scenario is the most valuable.
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- 12:18:48 p.m.
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Thank you for that.
My next question is for Humanity and Inclusion Canada.
You talked about how inclusion costs money. I wonder if you could talk a little bit about how it actually saves money in the longer term.
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- 12:19:08 p.m.
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Did you want me to answer?
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- 12:19:10 p.m.
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Yes, please answer if you can. If not, I can get someone else to answer.
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- 12:19:13 p.m.
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I can answer. That's fine.
Maybe you want direct figures, but essentially, retrofitting is always more expensive than starting out by being inclusive and accessible right from the get-go, so that's an example of how it might be expensive now to make schools inclusive and accessible. Here I'm talking about physical changes—so you have, maybe, ramps or larger, accessible toilets or classrooms that are light and airy, all of the things that make a school much more accessible to all children with different types of disabilities—but that obviously costs money. It's cheaper to do it right at the beginning if you're building a new school, making it inclusive and accessible to start with, than to do it later on. That saves money.
Also, if you think about the added cost to the wider society, the cost of not educating and of exclusion—and there are reports on this that we can share—is actually more than the cost of inclusion, because by excluding children you're obviously impacting society. Maybe their parents aren't able to work, so they, themselves, won't be able to grow up to have a decent job and gain income later on in life. That has a knock-on impact on the economy, for them and also for their wider family.
We should also think about the wider costs—less about the economic costs and more about the wider costs. Not having an inclusive society in general has an important cost for society. If the society is basically closed, inward-looking and not inclusive, that's not the society we should be advocating for, so I think it's also outside of the economic question.
There are studies that look at the actual rates of improvement for economic costs and for the GDP of a country by educating all children and not leaving out a section of children because it's not accessible.
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