44th Parl. 1st Sess.
November 23, 2023
- 04:27:04 p.m.
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First and foremost, Bill C-53 is not about benefits. It is about the internal governance of these Métis governments.
Citizens have the opportunity to choose who represents them and who delivers programs and services to them. If an individual is satisfied with the governmental structure of the federal government and the provincial government that currently represent them, and they choose not to register as a Métis citizen of Saskatchewan, that is their choice.
If they choose to be represented by the Métis Nation-Saskatchewan, again, that is their choice.
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- 04:27:40 p.m.
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Okay. Just to clarify, let's say they are in Alberta. They belong to a Métis settlement, and it doesn't matter which one, but they choose not to join the Métis Nation of Alberta. I know it's not about benefits, but if the Métis Nation of Alberta is the governing body or the one that deals with the majority of Métis in Alberta, would there be risks that those belonging only to a settlement would lose their benefits?
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- 04:28:11 p.m.
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No, because there is no pie whereby the Métis Nation of Alberta is taking three-quarters of this pie and the settlements are taking this quarter. There are different ways and different approaches to doing that.
It's important, again, to reference 15.05 of the MNA's self-government agreement. It says:
Nothing in this Agreement impacts or affects the rights, jurisdiction, powers, or responsibilities of the Métis Settlements General Council or a Métis Settlement, including the ownership of Métis Settlement lands, as recognized in Alberta's Métis Settlements Act....
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- 04:28:51 p.m.
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- 04:28:52 p.m.
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- 04:28:53 p.m.
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I just needed clarification, because we weren't sure. I appreciate that.
I am going to yield my time to Gary Vidal.
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- 04:29:00 p.m.
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Thank you.
I'm going to come at this one more time, because I want to be certain, President.
I spoke to people in Saskatchewan last week, who told me that, when we talk about section 35 rights in the context of health, for example—health benefits—if you're a member of a first nation and you have to receive dialysis, for example, in the city of Saskatoon and you live in northern Saskatchewan, you have travel benefits and you have some of these other things through the appropriate programs.
As a Métis individual in northern Saskatchewan, you are covered by Saskatchewan Health, but the MN-S is looking to add benefits that would be the same—for travel if you have to go for dialysis and those kinds of benefits, but they say they would not receive those unless they chose to be a member of the MN-S, in this case.
You can hear where I am coming from. The rights and privileges, or the right to choose your membership is less than a free right if you're going to have a gun held to your head in the sense that some of the benefits you.... Are they misunderstanding this? I guess that would be the other option. Are they understanding the truth of this?
I'll let you clarify that.
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- 04:30:10 p.m.
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I don't think I can answer that question, quite honestly, because it's hard to comprehend. I'm going to Saskatchewan right after this, and I'd love to find those individuals and have that conversation with them, so that I could potentially clarify that with them.
Once again, members, I want to redirect you to the legislation, and what is in this legislation and what is not in this legislation. Benefits are not in this legislation.
I would love to talk to you about the fact that the Métis nation does not even have health benefits right now. We do not have non-insured health benefits, but this committee has actually provided a recommendation to government to negotiate health benefits for the Métis nation. We look forward to a time when that happens, but at this point in time this legislation does not talk about benefits. It is just about the internal governance of these three Métis governments.
I just continue to urge this committee to remember what is in and what is not in this piece of legislation.
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- 04:31:13 p.m.
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Thank you.
Very quickly, because I think I'm nearly out of time, this has taken a long time. It started back in 2018. There's been a long process. It's gotten delayed many times through many processes.
Can you just speak to the delays? What do you think has caused all of these delays from 2018 to when the legislation finally got introduced in June 2023?
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- 04:31:34 p.m.
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I'd say be brief, please, with a couple of sentences, and then we do need to move to our final questioner.
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- 04:31:38 p.m.
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The recognition is that this piece of legislation has been longer delayed than just since 2018. It has been delayed since 1982.
Once again, simply put, it is time.
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- 04:31:50 p.m.
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Thank you.
Now we'll go to Mr. Battiste for the final five minutes of this panel.
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- 04:31:55 p.m.
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Thank you for that.
I know those questions kind of blur the lines between section 35 rights and subsection 91(24) rights in Indian Act in a way that it was really tough to answer.
Chief, to the best of your reading of this legislation, does this legislation talk at all about any of those rights that people are saying are a pie that's going to be split, or is there any kind of discussion of those section 35 rights that have not been proven by the courts in various court cases?
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- 04:32:32 p.m.
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No. Again, I want to refer the members to each of the Métis self-government agreements. Nothing in this agreement or the implementation legislation extinguishes, defines, creates, modifies, limits, prejudices, restricts or surrenders any Métis right.
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- 04:32:54 p.m.
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One of the things that people often talk.... Sometimes we come into committee, and we think that we hold indigenous people to a higher standard than we hold our own democracies. We have our opposition—we have multiple oppositions—and as Métis leaders there are going to be disputes and disagreements, but throughout this process, we've talked a lot about how Canada moves forward with this once agreements are done.
Can you talk to me about the ratification process that might be coming for the Métis and how they would ratify these agreements internally?
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- 04:33:36 p.m.
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No, I can't speak to that. I'm sorry.
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- 04:33:39 p.m.
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I understand that it's probably a question that I should have asked the governments themselves. They all have their own....
Would you say that there is a ratification process in place for when these treaties come to some kind of conclusion, that it would not just be the Canadian government who looks at this but also the Métis themselves in those areas?
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- 04:34:01 p.m.
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Is that for the treaties? Yes, absolutely, there will be ratification of the treaties by our people who choose to be represented by those governments.
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- 04:34:09 p.m.
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Yes, so those discussions of people who were saying, “We're not involved. We're not a part of this”, if they choose to have a voice and if they choose to use their voice, as they can in democratic methods, they will be heard and at some point even those who aren't on board who are Métis will have the ability to voice that through a process.
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- 04:34:27 p.m.
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Métis people will have a voice through the ratification process. If the treaties impact others' rights, those will be consulted on.
I want to talk about the ratification processes that have taken place up until this date. The Métis Nation of Alberta went through a process of developing their constitution for the Otipemisiwak Métis government. They went to a ratification of their 65,000 Métis citizens in the province of Alberta, and 97% of voters voted in favour of ratifying that constitution.
Métis people are very civically engaged. Métis people love democracy. They will vote if they want to vote. They will have a say if the want to have a say. The ratification of the constitution in Alberta, the Métis Nation of Alberta, is a prime example with what just took place there.
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