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The Chair (Mrs. Salma Zahid (Scarborough Centre, Lib.))

11:03:45 a.m.
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Good morning, everybody. I call this meeting to order. Welcome to meeting 28 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Citizenship and Immigration. Given the ongoing pandemic situation and in light of the recommendations from health authorities, as well as the directive of the Board of Internal Economy on Thursday, November 25, 2021, to remain healthy and safe all those attending the meeting in person are to maintain two metres of physical distancing and must wear a non-medical mask when circulating in the room. It is highly recommended that the mask be worn at all times, including when seated and that you maintain proper hand hygiene by using the provided hand sanitizer in the room. You must refrain from coming to the room if you are symptomatic. I will remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair. When you are not speaking, your microphone should be on mute and your camera must be on. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, May 4, 2022, we will resume consideration of Bill C-242, an act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, regarding temporary resident visas for parents and grandparents. First, I would like to welcome the sponsor of the bill, Mr. Kyle Seeback. I don't see him here. Okay, that's not a problem. We are joined by officials from the Department of Citizenship and Immigration: Michèle Kingsley, director general, immigration; Alexis Graham, director, social and discretionary policy and programs; James Seyler, director, immigration program guidance; and Ben Mitchell, counsel. We are also joined by the legislative clerks today to provide us advice. Thanks for joining us. We are ready to start clause-by-clause consideration. I want to inform the members of some instructions that we need to follow as we go through the clause-by-clause consideration. This is the first one we are having in this session. As the name indicates, this is an examination of all the clauses in the order in which they appear in the bill. I will call each clause successively. Each clause is subject to debate and a vote. If there are amendments to the clause in question, I will recognize the member who is proposing the amendment and who may explain that amendment. The amendment will then be open for debate. When no further members wish to intervene, the amendment will be voted on. Amendments will be considered in the order in which they appear in the bill or in the package each member received from the clerk of the committee. Members should note that amendments must be submitted in writing to the clerk of the committee. I will try to go slowly so that I allow all the members to follow the proceedings properly. If there are any questions, please raise your hand and get my attention. Amendments have been given an alphanumeric number in the top-right corner to indicate which party submitted the amendment. There is no need for a seconder to move an amendment. Once moved, you will need unanimous consent to withdraw that amendment. During debate on an amendment, members are permitted to move subamendments. These subamendments must be submitted in writing. They do not require the approval of the mover of the amendment. Only one subamendment at a time may be considered. When a subamendment to an amendment is moved, it is voted on first. Another subamendment may be moved, or the committee may consider the main amendment and vote on it. Once every clause has been voted on, the committee will vote on the title and the bill itself, and an order to reprint the bill may be required if amendments are adopted so that the House has a proper copy for use at report stage. Finally, the committee will have to order the chair to report the bill to the House. The report contains only the text of any adopted amendments as well as an indication of any deleted clauses. Are there any questions? Is everyone clear? Does anyone need clarification before we begin the process? Okay. Pursuant to the order of reference of Wednesday, May 4, 2022, we will begin clause-by-clause consideration of Bill C-242, an act to amend the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, temporary resident visas for parents and grandparents. Pursuant to Standing Order 75(1), consideration of clause 1, the short title, is postponed. We will begin with amendment NDP-1, numbered 11777709, which proposes new clause 1.1. This is on page 1 of the package. Would the member like to move this? Yes, Ms. Kwan.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

11:10:00 a.m.
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All right. I move to amend Bill C-242 by adding, before line 5 on page 1, the following new clause: 1.1 Subsection 14(2) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act is amended by adding the following after paragraph (c): (c.1) special circumstances to be taken into account in the processing of temporary resident visa applications; (c.2) a review process for decisions made in relation to temporary resident visa applications; Madam Chair, the reason I'd like to move this amendment is so that there could be an appeal process in place for rejections. As we know, oftentimes people are not able to have their application reviewed after it's been rejected. The process that's available to them is extremely onerous, and in many cases effectively not available. We know that there are extenuating circumstances that happen in people's lives. I cited during committee, with witnesses, examples such as applicants whose applications are rejected because their financial situation changes at the last minute and for the short term, but their entire application is ultimately rejected as a result. I'm moving for an appeal system to be established and for special circumstances to be allowed to be taken into consideration. The amendment does not spell out what that appeal process would look like. It would be left to the government to make that determination and set up that structure. However, the call for an appeal process to be established is what this is about, and for special circumstances to be taken into consideration. I hope members will consider this.

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The Chair

11:12:07 a.m.
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Thank you, Ms. Kwan. I will have to give a ruling on this amendment. The amendment that Ms. Kwan just moved seeks to amend subsection 14(2) of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act, which deals with regulations related to requirements and selection. The amendment also seeks to introduce a review process that is not contemplated by Bill C-242. House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states the following on page 771: ...an amendment is inadmissible if it proposes to amend a statute that is not before the committee or a section of the parent Act, unless the latter is specifically amended by a clause of the bill. Since section 14 of the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act is not being amended by Bill C-242, and also because the introduction of a review process is a new concept, this amendment goes beyond the scope of the bill. Therefore, it is the opinion of the chair that the amendment is inadmissible. This ruling is non-debatable.

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

11:13:40 a.m.
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Thank you, Madam Chair. I'd like to challenge your ruling.

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The Chair

11:21:50 a.m.
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Okay, so Mr. Benzen's vote is changed to nay. (Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)

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Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

11:24:59 a.m.
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Yes, Madam Chair, I would like to bring an amendment to Bill C-242 in clause 2, lines eight to 15. I have the amendment here in both official languages to be shared with the members of the committee, if I may.

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Mrs. Marie-France Lalonde

11:35:21 a.m.
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Thank you, Madam Chair. My motion in amendment reads as follows: That Bill C‑242, in Clause 2, be amended by replacing lines 8 to 15 on page 1 with the following: Temporary resident visas — parents and grandparents 15.1 (1) The Minister may give instructions respecting an application for a temporary resident visa made by a foreign national to visit a Canadian citizen or permanent resident who is their child or grandchild, for an extended period in Canada, including instructions respecting selection criteria and conditions that may or must be imposed in respect of that foreign national, including the period authorized for their stay. Compliance with instructions (2) An officer must comply with the instructions before processing an application and when processing one. Amendments to instructions (3) An instruction that amends another instruction may, if it so provides, apply in respect of an application referred to in subsection (1) that is pending on the day on which the amending instruction takes effect. Publication of instructions (4) The instructions must be published in the Canada Gazette. Act includes instructions (5) Unless otherwise indicated, references in this Act to “this Act” include the instructions.

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The Chair

11:37:03 a.m.
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I would like to give my ruling on the amendment. Bill C-242 amends the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act to allow a parent or grandparent who applies for a temporary resident visa as a visitor to purchase private health insurance outside Canada and to stay in Canada for a period of five years. The amendment seeks to add the possibility for the minister to give other instructions respecting applications for a temporary resident visa that are not contemplated by Bill C-242. House of Commons Procedure and Practice, third edition, states on page 770: An amendment to a bill that was referred to a committee after second reading is out of order if it is beyond the scope and principle of the bill. In the opinion of the chair, adding the possibility for the minister to give new instructions not envisioned in Bill C-242 is beyond the scope of the bill. Therefore, I rule the amendment is inadmissible.

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Mr. Sukh Dhaliwal

11:38:30 a.m.
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I bring a motion forward to challenge the ruling of the chair. Some hon. members: Oh, oh!

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The Chair

11:38:39 a.m.
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We will go to a vote. Shall the ruling of the chair be sustained? (Ruling of the chair sustained: yeas 6; nays 5)

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The Chair

11:38:52 a.m.
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Now we are back on clause 2. Is there any debate? Order, please. Shall clause 2 carry? (Clause 2 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5) (Clause 3 agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5) (On clause 4)

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

11:43:17 a.m.
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Yes, I would, Madam Chair. I would move that Bill C-242 in clause 4 be amended (a) by replacing line 2 on page 2 with the following: tion must prepare a report in respect of a reduction to the mini- Also, it would amend clause 4 (b) by replacing line 7 on page 2 with the following: visit that child or grandchild, including in respect of any special circumstances to be taken into account in the process of temporary resident visa applications and a review process for the decisions made in relation to those applications. Madam Chair, this is related to the report back to Parliament from the minister. Given that I wasn't able to get the appeal process and special circumstances to be amended in the act itself, as it was deemed out of scope, at the very minimum I'm hoping that members will support having the minister respond to this concept in the report back to Parliament.

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The Chair

11:46:27 a.m.
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We will have a recorded vote, Madam Clerk. (Amendment agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5) (Clause 4 as amended agreed to: yeas 6; nays 5) (On clause 5)

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Ms. Jenny Kwan

11:49:08 a.m.
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Yes, Madam Chair. I move that Bill C-242, in clause 5, be amended (a) by replacing line 19 on page 2 with the following: tion does not provide for a reduction to the minimum income re‐ Also, it moves that clause 5 be amended (b) by replacing line 24 on page 2 with the following: or grandchild or the circumstances or review process referred to in subsection 4(1), the Minister must table in each This is a consequential amendment to the previous amendment that was passed, effectively asking that the minister respond to Parliament, including the issues around an appeal process and under special circumstances.

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