Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 234, dated June 6, 2023, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Carignan, P.C., regarding the proportion of federal employees teleworking.

Hon. Leo Housakos (Acting Deputy Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, as it is Autism Awareness Month, I would be remiss if I did not ask about your government’s progress concerning its legal obligations under Bill S-203, which received Royal Assent earlier this year. This legislation was non‑prescriptive to ensure that the government and stakeholders — including autistic Canadians themselves — were the ultimate authority on what the framework should look like. To that end, the legislation requires the ministry to convene a meeting with stakeholders and provincial counterparts within a year. Of course, that’s in the law. It’s an important part of the legislation because it ensures that autistic Canadians are not left out of drafting the framework.

Senator Gold, can you please tell us where the government — specifically the Ministry of Health — is on this issue? When will it be convening the conference? It is, of course, of interest to everyone in this chamber.

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate) tabled the reply to Question No. 229, dated May 30, 2023, appearing on the Order Paper and Notice Paper in the name of the Honourable Senator Plett, regarding the Canada Emergency Business Account program.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform the Senate that a message has been received from the House of Commons which reads as follows:

Wednesday, October 18, 2023

EXTRACT, —

That,

(a)the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying be re-appointed, in accordance with Recommendation 13 in the second report of the Special Joint Committee on Medical Assistance in Dying;

(b)five members of the Senate and 10 members of the House of Commons be members of the committee, including five members of the House of Commons from the governing party, three members of the House of Commons from the official opposition, and two members of the House of Commons from the opposition who are not members of the official opposition, with two Chairs of which the House Co‑Chair shall be from the governing party and the Senate Co-Chair shall be determined by the Senate;

(c)in addition to the Co-Chairs, the committee shall elect three vice-chairs from the House, of whom the first vice-chair shall be from the Conservative Party of Canada, the second vice-chair shall be from the Bloc Québécois and the third vice-chair shall be from the New Democratic Party;

(d)the quorum of the committee be eight members whenever a vote, resolution or other decision is taken, so long as both Houses and one member of the governing party in the House, one from the opposition in the House and one member of the Senate are represented, and that the Joint Chairs be authorized to hold meetings, to receive evidence and authorize the printing thereof, whenever six members are present, so long as both Houses and one member of the governing party in the House, one member from the opposition in the House and one member of the Senate are represented;

(e)the House of Commons members be named by their respective whip by depositing with the Clerk of the House the list of their members to serve on the committee no later than five sitting days after the adoption of this motion;

(f)changes to the membership of the committee, on the part of the House of Commons, be effective immediately after notification by the relevant whip has been filed with the Clerk of the House;

(g)membership substitutions, on the part of the House of Commons, be permitted, if required, in the manner provided for in Standing Order 114(2);

(h)where applicable to a special joint committee, the provisions relating to hybrid committee proceedings contained in the Standing Orders of the House of Commons shall also apply to the committee;

(i)the committee have the power to:

(i)sit during sittings and adjournments of the House,

(ii)report from time to time, to send for persons, papers and records, and to print such papers and evidence as may be ordered by the committee,

(iii)retain the services of expert, professional, technical and clerical staff, including legal counsel,

(iv)appoint, from among its members such subcommittees as may be deemed appropriate and to delegate to such subcommittees, all or any of its powers, except the power to report to the Senate and House of Commons,

(v)authorize video and audio broadcasting of any or all of its proceedings and that public proceedings be made available to the public via the Parliament of Canada’s websites;

(j)the committee submit a final report of its review, including any recommendations, to Parliament no later than January 31, 2024; and

(k)following the presentation of the final report in both Houses, the committee shall expire; and

that a message be sent to the Senate requesting that House to unite with this House for the above purpose and to select, if the Senate deems advisable, members to act on the proposed special joint committee.

ATTEST

Eric Janse

Acting Clerk of the House of Commons

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you. I am certainly going to make inquiries about the progress, but I first want to take the opportunity to congratulate you on the work you have done now for decades in support of these important initiatives. Indeed, I will add my voice, if it’s not inappropriate, to support the Giant Steps program to which you alluded and with which my family and I are very familiar.

This is an important question. It’s an important and necessary step — but only the first step — toward providing resources, health and support for those in the autistic community so they can live a fruitful and productive life and, indeed, contribute to society and benefit us with what they have to offer. So, thank you for the question.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, the time for Question Period has expired.

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, I have the honour to table the answers to the following oral questions:

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on May 4, 2023, by the Honourable Senator McPhedran, concerning the Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on May 10, 2023, by the Honourable Senator Martin, concerning the Canada Emergency Business Account.

Response to the oral question asked in the Senate on June 13, 2023, by the Honourable Senator Martin, concerning the Canada Emergency Business Account.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Marilou McPhedran on May 4, 2023)

The Canadian Ombudsperson for Responsible Enterprise (CORE) has not received any complaints about Canadian garment, mining or oil/gas companies in Myanmar. The CORE suspects that other companies likely face similar challenges.

The CORE recommends that the Canadian government introduce mandatory human rights and environmental due diligence (HREDD) legislation. This would require Canadian companies in Myanmar to put in place HREDD processes. When companies operate in high-risk contexts like Myanmar, there is a heightened risk their operations or business relationships may result in or contribute to gross human rights abuses, including those committed by the Tatmadaw. Companies should therefore identify human rights risks throughout their supply chain and put in place an HREDD framework. If HREDD is not possible, companies should apply collective leverage over suppliers to address and remediate human rights abuses, or plan a responsible exit from the country.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Yonah Martin on May 10, 2023)

From the inception of the Canada Emergency Business Account (CEBA) program (through April 30, 2023), Accenture has been awarded $208 million in contracts, including upcoming work for the 2023-2024 year to build out the collections phase.

Export Development Canada (EDC), not Accenture, was directed by the Government to design, deliver and administer the CEBA program. Many of the capabilities required to develop and administer the CEBA program fall outside EDC’s core expertise as an export credit agency. As such, EDC informed the Government that it would outsource the extensive work required for CEBA given its scale, complexity, and timing requirements, necessitating third‑party expertise and resources to deliver. EDC would not have been able to deliver CEBA without vendor assistance. Accenture’s capacity augmented EDC’s staff and provided technology services, not solely consultant advice.

EDC is aware of Government guidelines requiring regular disclosure/reporting of contracts by Departments. As a crown corporation, EDC does not fall under federal procurement processes. EDC does have a separate disclosure process for award notices for applicable procurement contracts. This process was implemented in December 2021, subsequent to the Accenture award for CEBA.

(Response to question raised by the Honourable Yonah Martin on June 13, 2023)

In March 2020, Export Development Canada (EDC) was directed by the Governor-in-Council, upon recommendation of the Minister of Small Business, Export Promotion and International Trade, to take all measures necessary to support Canadian businesses, as part of the Government’s response to the COVID-19 pandemic. In this regard, the Government requested that EDC administer the Canada Emergency Business Account (CEBA) program through authorities under the Export Development Act. These actions were taken to ensure that EDC could act in the national interest and rapidly deliver a high volume of emergency assistance to Canadian businesses.

Cost estimates for CEBA loan collections have not yet been finalized. EDC will continue following its procurement practices in accordance with trade agreement obligations and commits to providing details of all Accenture contracts as Parliament requests them.

EDC, as Canada’s export credit agency, would not have been able to deliver CEBA without vendor assistance. Accenture had already been onboarded as one of its technology providers prior to EDC being directed to deliver CEBA. A complex, competitive procurement process takes a minimum of 6-8 months and, given the urgent nature of the CEBA program, would not have allowed EDC to deliver at the speed required.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the opportunity to clarify the intent and the consequences of the motion that I’m asking the Senate to consider and vote on.

I will address the question of privilege. Thank you, though, for your invitation. In passing, I hope that I clarify certain things, but I really think it’s appropriate — since a question of privilege was raised — to respectfully register my view that no privilege of any senator has been infringed by the motion before us.

The leadership representatives of the organized groups and caucuses meet regularly to discuss many matters, and in particular, how government legislation shall proceed. That is my primary responsibility, and I convene those meetings for those purposes. In such a case — and we met, and I’ll come to the rationales for the suggestions that were made to me by others for considering how we could manage some of the challenges that many of you are facing on Thursdays — we brought forward a motion for the consideration of the Senate as a whole. It is simply not the case that deals by the leaders bind those who are either in the groups or not affiliated with any groups. The issue before us is whether the Senate as a whole supports or not the motion that is before you. No one is bound by the deals that I may make with Senators Plett, Saint-Germain, Cordy or Tannas in matters like the one before us.

Second, non-government business is a staple and an important part of what we do in the Senate. Just look at the Order Paper. Forgive me for imperfect mathematics, but I believe there are over 75 Senate public bills on the Order Paper. When you add to that motions and inquiries, it is hard to deny that a significant part of what we do and the contribution we try to make is in areas of non-government business.

I mention that, Your Honour, because this order, if it’s approved, affects all senators in all groups. They may not necessarily be happy to have time somewhat limited, though not taken away, for non-government business on Thursdays. If the motion is passed, it will affect all senators because the majority of senators so decreed, and I do not believe in circumstances like that the privileges of senators can be said to be infringed when collectively we have decided to change the rules for the purposes — and what are the purposes?

The purposes are to address a real challenge for those of you — not me personally, who has it easy because I’m two hours by car from Montreal — to get home in a timely fashion because of the decreasing number of flights available and the increasing challenges and unpredictability of those flights. Therefore, it was proposed around the leadership table to find an equitable way to at least give some predictability to those of you who have to make those arrangements and often find yourselves stuck, with no ability to get home, with all of the costs, personal and financial, that may accrue.

This motion simply proposes that the Senate rises at the later of six o’clock or the end of Government Business. Today being Thursday, we’re going to be doing non-government business, as we have been doing many Thursdays and we may continue to do many Thursdays. To be sure, there will come a time, as there always is, towards the end of the fall, as we approach the break for the holidays, and, of course, in June, when we will be consumed with government business. That will probably take us well into the evenings on Thursdays, if not many other nights. But under those circumstances, as we know from past experience, time runs out for non-government business in any event.

In conclusion, thank you for raising the question and for underlying the impact that a motion like this will have on all of us who have non-government business that we want to advance. Again, I submit that no privilege has been breached, that this is a classic example of the Senate being responsible for its own affairs. I do hope after your ruling, Your Honour, that we can bring this to a vote and the Senate shall decide. Thank you, Your Honour.

The Hon. the Speaker: Do any other senators want to participate in the discussion?

The Hon. the Speaker: You are raising a question of privilege, so you may speak.

Hon. Raymonde Saint-Germain: Given what we heard from our colleagues, Senator McCallum and Senator McPhedran, I see a need for clarification about the scope of this government motion, because the interpretation we’re hearing is not accurate. Other colleagues have said things that lead me to the same conclusion.

With your consent, I think we could ask the Government Representative to provide more information about the scope of the motion and to confirm whether it means that, on Thursdays, there will no longer be any study of non-government bills unless we’re done with Government Business before six o’clock. Thank you.

[English]

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate), pursuant to notice of October 18, 2023, moved:

That, for the remainder of the current session and notwithstanding any provision of the Rules, when the Senate sits on a Thursday, it stand adjourned at the later of 6 p.m. or the end of Government Business, as if that time were, for all purposes, the ordinary time of adjournment provided for in rule 3-4.

Some Hon. Senators: Question.

Some Hon. Senators: Agreed.

Some Hon. Senators: No.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Hon. Marilou McPhedran: I shall be very brief. I want to speak in support of the concerns that have been set out very well today by Senator McCallum. She certainly speaks for me in the comments that she made.

I would ask all of us in responding to this point — and I realize this is something that will have to be ruled on by you, Your Honour — to think about the fact that every time we come into this chamber and begin a sitting, you start with a prayer. We are all part of that. I just want to remind us of the import of the comments made by Senator McCallum about the kind of representation that we have taken on as our responsibility — which takes time. The nature of this motion is to reduce time and opportunities.

The prayer that I’m referring to points out that we ask the following:

. . . let your spirit preside over our deliberations so that at this time assembled, we may serve ever better the cause of peace and justice in our land and throughout the world.

Thank you.

[Translation]

Hon. Mary Jane McCallum: If there will be a standing vote, I have a question of privilege.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?