The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, that the sitting be suspended to await the arrival of Her Excellency the Governor General of Canada?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, that the sitting be suspended to await the arrival of Her Excellency the Governor General of Canada?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is leave granted, honourable senators?

Senator Housakos: Senator Woo, there’s something in the Westminster system called parliamentary responsibility and accountability. You cannot say the elected house in our parliamentary system is irrelevant. Nobody will accept that. Your accountability, and mine, and that of everybody in this chamber comes through that elected house. At the end of the day, as we’ve always said, for this place to function, and as it has functioned, the opposition, as chosen by the people in an election, determines the party members in this chamber who represent the opposition; and the government’s side is chosen by the people in a general election who choose the governing side, including all of their appointees.

Again, the important question here is this: If you’re not accountable through a democratic process in the other chamber, to whom are you accountable?

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Senator Woo: Thank you, Senator Housakos, for your questions. To the second question first — we are not elected. The will of the public is not reflected in the composition of this chamber. Therefore, your point about neglecting the will in the other house is irrelevant.

With respect to your question about appointing both — and it wasn’t quite clear how your question as constructed makes sense — insofar as you’re asking how the Government Representative Office, or GRO, can be appointed, I will leave the GRO to explain for itself. I will speak for myself and for the 80 other senators who sit as non-partisans that we are clearly not part of the government. For you and your colleagues to claim repeatedly that we’re part of the government is an insult to us because it goes against what we believe ourselves to be. We don’t need to explain further why we’re not part of the government because it says clearly in the rolls of the Senate that we sit as independents in three different groups that are non-partisan.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform you that I have received the following communication from Government House, which reads as follows:

RIDEAU HALL

October 3, 2023

Madam Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that Her Excellency the Right Honourable Mary May Simon, Governor General of Canada, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 3^rd day of October, 2023, at 2:10 p.m., for the purpose of receiving the newly elected Speaker of the House of Commons.

Yours sincerely,

Maia Welbourne

Acting Secretary to the Governor General

The Honourable

The Speaker of the Senate

Ottawa

[Translation]

Senator Clement: To the young people, thank you for taking up space in this institution. I can’t wait to see what good you do in this world. Nia:wen.

Senator Plett: Leader, two weeks ago, the Leader of the Official Opposition, Pierre Poilievre, asked the Prime Minister to provide more facts about the serious allegations he made in the House of Commons against the government of India. Mr. Poilievre said we need to have all the evidence possible so Canadians can make judgments on that allegation.

I agree — given the severe and widespread ramifications of the Prime Minister’s claims — this is a reasonable request, Senator Gold. Yet the Prime Minister and his government have not told Canadians any more than he did in the other place on September 18. Why is that, leader?

Senator Gold: I’m timing myself because I really could go on at length. You’ve really tossed a nice softball. First of all, my honourable colleague to my right was an honourable member of the Conservative Party in Alberta and is now sitting in my office. Second — and here I’m going to be careful — when senators are appointed to this place in the current regime, they are told — I was told because I don’t know what everybody else was told — to exercise an independent judgment, and that includes what group to associate with or indeed whether to choose to sit, as several of our honourable colleagues do, without affiliation with an organized group. Each group should look at themselves and ask why they are attractive to incoming new senators or why perhaps they haven’t attracted members. That is probably a more fruitful line of inquiry than the question that you posed.

Senator Martin: It’s shocking to hear that there would be no communication whatsoever. Protocol would have communication with the Prime Minister’s Office. The Prime Minister is the leader of our nation.

Senator Gold, the Prime Minister’s apology last week was several days late and he took no personal responsibility. I also note that he did not apologize to Canada’s veterans, especially those who served in World War II. Leader, could you tell us why our veterans were not mentioned? As well, given that the Prime Minister and his government refused to take any direct responsibility for this embarrassing and hurtful incident, aren’t they conceding that something like this could happen again?

Senator Gold: No, I’m afraid I cannot accept some of the premises, senator, of your question. First of all, the independent Office of Protocol, in response to my inquiry last week, responded, “The Chief of Protocol does not report to the Prime Minister’s Office.” It is simply incorrect to continue to insist that somehow the terribly unfortunate incident was the responsibility of the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister apologized on behalf of Parliament to Canada, and my understanding is that communications have taken place and continue to take place with the Government of Ukraine, of which we are a proud and staunch supporter.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I have the honour to inform you that I have received the following communication from Government House, which reads as follows:

RIDEAU HALL

October 3, 2023

Madam Speaker:

I have the honour to inform you that Her Excellency the Right Honourable Mary May Simon, Governor General of Canada, will proceed to the Senate Chamber today, the 3^rd day of October, 2023, at 2:10 p.m., for the purpose of receiving the newly elected Speaker of the House of Commons.

Yours sincerely,

Maia Welbourne

Acting Secretary to the Governor General

The Honourable

The Speaker of the Senate

Ottawa

[Translation]

Hon. Patti LaBoucane-Benson (Legislative Deputy to the Government Representative in the Senate): Honourable senators, with leave of the Senate, I move:

That, if Her Excellency the Governor General comes to the Senate later today, photographers be allowed in the Senate Chamber to photograph proceedings while Her Excellency is in the Senate, with the least possible disruption to proceedings.

Senator Francis: Thank you, Senator Gold. I do not have to remind you or the relevant ministers that time is of the essence. Every single day, we are losing survivors, and they, along with their families and communities, deserve justice as soon as possible.

Senator Gold: I could not agree with you more.

Senator Simons: I have a supplementary question. In 1986, the Commission of Inquiry on War Criminals in Canada, known to most as The Deschênes Commission, released a two-part report that examined allegations that post-war Canadian governments had permitted and indeed even welcomed known Nazi war criminals into Canada. The report had two parts, one of which has never yet been made public. While I understand and support the need to respect the privacy rights of those who were accused but not charged with war crimes and to respect the dignity and reputation of Canada’s wonderful Ukrainian community, it is now 37 years since the Deschênes report was written. At what point can Canadians expect its findings to be made public?

Senator Gold: Thank you for the question. The information that came to the Prime Minister came from our security services and from those of other Five Eyes member countries. It is not appropriate to share those publicly or at large. They can be shared only with those who have security clearance, as some leaders of the opposition — but not all — have chosen to have.

[Translation]

Hon. Senators: Agreed.

(At 5:32 p.m., the Senate was continued until tomorrow at 2 p.m.)

Appendix—Senators List