Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Senator Gold, I will put on the record part of a Montreal Gazette article dated August 13, 2021. It concerns the court case brought by the families of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy to obtain information from the Parole Board of Canada and Correctional Service Canada as they prepared for Paul Bernardo’s parole hearings. It states:

As legal victor, the government wanted the families to pay its legal costs for fighting for the killer’s privacy — in a lump sum of $19,142.27.

Lawyers for the government argued the families weren’t pursuing public interest litigation but a personal pursuit: “Their personal motivation is to use the information sought to make statements to the parole board,” the government agreed.

I have a hard time even talking about this, leader. It is so shameful and so horrific that these families have been tortured by this government.

Leader, your government wanted these families to pay the government’s legal bills because it was personal to them. It was personal to them that their daughters had been tortured, raped and murdered.

The judge later reduced the amount. Seeking the amount of costs in the first place, leader, was wrong, was it not?

Hon. Éric Forest: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the report of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie concerning the Working Group on Reforming the APF Constitution, held in Paris, France, from November 3 to 4, 2022.

Hon. Éric Forest: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the report of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie concerning the Leadership Workshop for Francophone Women Parliamentarians, held in Paris, France, from December 12 to 16, 2022.

Hon. Éric Forest: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the report of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie concerning the Twenty-seventh United Nations Conference on Climate Change, held in Sharm el-Sheikh, Egypt, from November 10 to 11, 2022.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your questions. I answered to the best of my ability yesterday, but I think Canadians also need to know that, despite the statements that you’ve made and the assertions implicit in it, both the Parole Board of Canada — which I served honourably, I hope, and certainly with great privilege, appointed by the previous government — and Correctional Service operate independently of the government. The Parole Board decisions are their own decisions. They’re not directed by the minister, nor should they be.

The Correctional Service’s decisions to evaluate risk and to decide whether or not to transfer an inmate from one facility to another are, again, decisions made based on criteria set out in the law and applied objectively, impartially and, more importantly, independently of the minister. Canadians need to understand that.

The suffering of the families of Kristen French and Leslie Mahaffy will be with them, tragically, for the rest of their lives. But it is also important that Canadians understand the democratic system under which we live and upon which we depend draws distinctions between what is and is not appropriate for government and politicians to direct.

[Translation]

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Preoccupation? “The preoccupation of those”?

Leader, in a delayed answer from the Department of Justice tabled last fall, the Parole Board said it was aware of the concern with respect to costs. Costs had not been collected, and the Parole Board was considering its position. The answer was tabled more than a year after the original court case ended, yet they were still “considering” it.

Costs never should have been sought. And you’re right, they continue to suffer. Why do they continue to suffer? Because now the government has decided — but they haven’t said it — that somehow it is okay to move this murderer to a medium-security institution. And they say they have no recourse.

Leader, contrary to what you said yesterday, Minister Mendicino has not explained what he meant by saying that “corrective steps” have been taken with the staff, but the buck stops with the minister.

Again, contrary to what you said yesterday, leader, I cannot find on what date Katie Telford knew about Paul Bernardo’s transfer. She testified before the House committee that nothing is ever kept from her boss, Prime Minister Trudeau.

Leader, Canadians want to know what happened here. What, leader, are the answers to my questions? What has Minister Mendicino done to take “corrective steps”? On what date did Katie Telford know? These are simple questions that require simple answers.

Hon. Éric Forest: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the report of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie concerning the Twenty‑seventh United Nations Conference on Climate Change, held in Sharm el‑Sheikh, Egypt, from November 10 to 11, 2022.

Hon. Éric Forest: Honourable senators, I have the honour to table, in both official languages, the report of the Assemblée parlementaire de la Francophonie concerning the Eighteenth Summit of La Francophonie, held in Djerba, Tunisia, from November 18 to 20, 2022.

Hon. Kim Pate: My question is also for Senator Gold.

Senator Gold, on this day — National Indigenous Peoples Day — we reflect on the legacy of colonization and celebrate the incredible accomplishments of Indigenous peoples. I recognize the reality, as I stand here, that Indigenous men are one in three in federal prisons, Indigenous women are one in two in federal prisons and 95% of those segregated in structured intervention units. We know that the significantly high numbers of youth mean these numbers will continue to increase.

I cannot help but ask how the government is planning to address the mass incarceration and overrepresentation of Indigenous peoples at every stage and negative component of the criminal legal system such that we can hope it will eventually be a just system.

Hon. Mobina S. B. Jaffer: My question is also to the Government Representative.

Leader, I follow Senator Pate’s question on the detention of refugees. Fifty years ago, I arrived as a refugee from Uganda to the best country in the world called Canada knowing that I would find safe refuge. Today, the news that our government has contracts with provincial governments to incarcerate hundreds of refugee claimants and migrants in provincial jails is just mind‑boggling. I shudder to think what would have happened to my beloved mother, father and five siblings if we had faced this detention. We would have been broken people and would never have flourished in this great country as we have.

Since last week, Ontario, Quebec and New Brunswick have announced that they’re ending their detention contracts with the Canadian Border Services Agency. They joined British Columbia, Alberta, Saskatchewan, Manitoba, Ontario, Quebec, New Brunswick and Nova Scotia to make it eight provinces who have now cancelled their immigration detention contracts. Newfoundland and Labrador, Prince Edward Island and the territories have not yet cancelled their agreements.

According to the latest data from Canada Border Services Agency, as of the second quarter of fiscal year 2022-23, these regions did not have any detainees. That said, it’s still crucial for the federal government to put a federal policy in place.

Just for your information, leader, during the COVID-19 pandemic, detention numbers dropped dramatically, and yet people were still showing up for immigration hearings.

Leader, last week, Senator Pate asked you almost the same question, and I’m repeating it: Why is our government continuing to detain vulnerable and marginalized people who have not committed any crimes?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for your question. Unfortunately, I don’t have any new information to add to the answers that I provided to our colleague Senator Pate.

Canada has a welcoming and just policy towards refugees. That includes the obligation, when we receive them, to house them and welcome them in the most appropriate and humane way. In that regard, I understand the Government of Canada is in continual discussions with those provinces and territories that have not yet changed their policies, to which you made mention, to ensure we continue to improve the way we welcome, house and otherwise treat those who seek asylum in our country.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question, senator. This is a real problem, as you and many others have pointed out and quite properly so. There are approximately 12,400 inmates in federal custody currently in the Correctional Service of Canada, of which 32% are Indigenous.

This government has taken many steps in many areas to address the historical injustices and the intergenerational consequences to individual families and their communities.

This morning, I was pleased to be present at the refreshing and raising of the Survivors’ Flag, surrounded by Indigenous leaders, senators, colleagues from here and from the other place. With that and many other measures, this government is committed to accompanying us and leading us, in some respects, on the path to reconciliation.

It’s impossible to look into the future with any certainty, but the Government of Canada continues to support and create initiatives to address the overrepresentation of Indigenous men and women, Black and racialized people in Canada’s criminal justice system, and they will continue to do so.

Hon. Jean-Guy Dagenais: My question is for the Government Representative in the Senate. We learned from La Presse that Canadian soldiers based in Latvia had to buy their own helmets with better hearing protection, ammunition belts and rain gear to be able to carry out their mission properly.

This is not the first time that I have brought this up, but I want to echo the observation made by journalist Stéphanie Grammond, who said that this is truly shameful. We are not talking here about procuring fighter planes or submarines. We are talking about basic equipment that is easy to find on the market.

Our soldiers are the victims of bureaucratic red tape at Public Services and Procurement Canada, which spends more time talking than getting things done. That leads to a huge duplication of costs.

Leader, could your Prime Minister recognize how shamefully these soldiers in Latvia are being treated and tell us when the government intends to get its procurement system in order?

Hon. Leo Housakos: Senator Gold, yesterday, in the U.S., three men were convicted of various charges relating to “Operation Fox Hunt,” which is a concerted effort by Beijing to threaten and intimidate expats living abroad in order to get them to return to mainland China to be dealt with by the authoritarian regime for speaking or acting out against them. All three men were accused of taking part in scare tactics aimed at a former Chinese official who was quietly living in New Jersey, and Beijing wanted him back.

These same operations are occurring right here in Canada. They are often facilitated through illegal police stations that Beijing is operating throughout our country. While the U.S. is busy prosecuting foreign agents responsible for terrorizing innocent people on American soil on behalf of maligned foreign regimes, we’re trying to figure out whether the minister responsible knows his left hand from his right.

Has the minister figured it out yet, government leader, and does he know whether the illegal police stations operating here in Canada are finally shut down? Why did Minister Mendicino mislead Parliament a number of weeks ago when he claimed that all operating stations in this country had been shut down? What happened?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question. There are many challenges associated with the procurement system, and you are right to point that out. That being said, the government is stepping up and working on it with financial support for the Canadian Armed Forces and other measures.

In that respect, it is important to remember that this government has increased financial support for our armed forces year after year. The percentage of our GDP dedicated to defence continues to rise. There is a lot of work to be done, including resolving the problems that you mentioned, but the government is aware of that and is working on it.

Hon. Pierre J. Dalphond: I am asking the Government Representative in the Senate this question on behalf of Senator Audette.

As you know, Senator Gold, Indigenous peoples live all across Canada and have diverse cultures, experiences and lifestyles. Some of them still speak their native tongue, while others must fight hard to preserve that knowledge, which is so vulnerable and so important. Some had to learn English as a colonial language, while others were forced to learn French.

In Quebec, approximately half the First Nations communities use French as a first language or as a second language if their mother tongue is Indigenous. The federal government creates Indigenous programs and organizations where the linguistic realities of Quebec’s Indigenous communities are not taken into account. Because everything is done in English, the communities do not have the same access to those organizations’ expertise and services, despite the fact that we have the Official Languages Act and the Indigenous Languages Act.

How does the government intend to respond to the minority within a minority?

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you again for repeating the question that you’ve asked me many times, and I’ll answer it again, as I did.

Investigations are under way by the RCMP into these allegations. If and when the RCMP determines that crimes or illegal activities were committed, they will take the appropriate steps, and if such is the case, charges will be laid. I presume some similar process gave rise to the charges in the United States to which you referred, as is appropriate in a democratic country. But beyond that, the investigations are ongoing, and there is nothing more that I can report at this stage.

Hon. Marc Gold (Government Representative in the Senate): Thank you for the question. Today is the day we recognize and celebrate the history, heritage, vitality and diversity of First Nations, Inuit and Métis peoples across Canada, including their languages and cultures, which were showcased this morning in the ceremony I just mentioned.

In that regard, the reclamation, revitalization and strengthening of Indigenous languages are front and centre.

Given our history, the systems in place and the issues at stake, the challenges facing Quebec’s Indigenous peoples are admittedly sometimes troubling in terms of the relations between the First Nations and the Quebec government. The Government of Canada is working at the federal level to assess and strengthen the capacity of federal bodies to provide services and even opportunities for members of Indigenous communities to work in their language and to access appropriate services, given the challenges you’ve mentioned.

Linguistic diversity, both across Canada and in that province, is once again a significant concern. The Government of Canada is working with its provincial and territorial partners and they will continue to work together.

The Hon. the Speaker: Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?