An Hon. Senator: Thirty minutes.

The Hon. the Speaker pro tempore: Do we have agreement on the bell?

Hon. Percy E. Downe introduced Bill S-258, An Act to amend the Canada Revenue Agency Act (reporting on unpaid income tax).

(Bill read first time.)

Senator Gold: I believe this is a responsible budget. I believe that this budget invests in our future as we transition to clean energy, as the world transitions to clean energy, as our major economic partner transitions to a cleaner, more sustainable environment. It provides investments to our companies, whether in the oil patch, in Hibernia and across the country to take advantage of Canadians’ expertise to profit and benefit from the changes that are upon us and that no government that is responsible or prudent would dare ignore.

It also invests in Canadians, who continue to have the challenge of living through uncertain economic times. That’s why the targeted, focused help that this budget provides to Canadians will assist them as they move forward.

Again, this government’s record over the last three or four challenging years demonstrates that it is possible to invest in Canadians, support our economy, do the right thing and still maintain a high credit rating and the strongest growth in the G7.

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Margareta Cederfelt, President of the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe — Parliamentary Assembly.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Senator Lankin: You led into my supplementary question. I particularly appreciate the fact-based approach that you bring to your analysis and the professional skill base. There is not a lot of that to be shared in the chamber.

I have asked you this directly, but now I’m putting it on the record: Do you think we could set up a training or briefing program for other senators and their staff who would like to understand the download analysis that you do and how you approach it, just to give us a better idea and help us to be more confident?

If you were to decide to go back to Newfoundland and not return here, it would be a great loss to this chamber in terms of the kind of work you do on all of our behalf.

Hon. Dennis Glen Patterson: Thank you very much, Senator Marshall.

I was interested in the alarming figures you gave about the sharp increase in per capita spending — the highest in history in recent years — and the steep increase in public debt. I think you said there was a 34% increase in the past two years. You said the trend seems to be going up.

We’re often told by the government representatives in the Senate — I remember hearing this from Senator Harder and probably from Senator Gold — to not worry and that the debt-to-GDP ratio is stellar among the G7. They tell us the debt-to-GDP ratio is okay. Would you have any comments on that formula — the debt-to-GDP ratio? Is it also worrisome?

The Hon. the Speaker: All those opposed will please say “nay.”

The Hon. the Speaker: It was moved by the Honourable Senator Gagné, seconded by the Honourable Senator Gold, that the bill be read a third time.

Is it your pleasure, honourable senators, to adopt the motion?

Senator Gold: Thank you for your question. This government is very well aware of the rising and sustained high cost of groceries, and that is why it has targeted relief to more than 10 million to 11 million households that need it the most.

It is simply not correct, although perhaps ideologically comforting, to wrap every increase in prices to the price on pollution. We know that supply chains are disrupted by the pandemic. We know that supply chains are disrupted because of the war in Ukraine. We know this is a worldwide phenomenon. We know that grocery chains are being seriously questioned by members in the other place as to what role they may be playing in terms of food prices.

The government’s position is that the price on carbon is an important policy tool to benefit Canadians, not only now but later for our children and our grandchildren.

[Translation]

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, when shall this bill be read the second time?

(On motion of Senator Loffreda, bill placed on the Orders of the Day for second reading two days hence.)

The Hon. the Speaker: Honourable senators, I wish to draw your attention to the presence in the gallery of Yuvraj Singh and Sabbena Singh Bhatti. They are the guests of the Honourable Senator Pate.

On behalf of all honourable senators, I welcome you to the Senate of Canada.

Hon. Colin Deacon: Honourable senators, I give notice that, at the next sitting of the Senate, I will move:

That the Senate call on the Government of Canada to replace its outdated program delivery and information technology systems by urgently accelerating the implementation of user-friendly, digital solutions that transform the public service delivery experience of Canadians, and ultimately reduce the cost of program delivery.

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Government leader, in last year’s budget speech, the Minister of Finance said:

We are absolutely determined that our debt-to-GDP ratio must continue to decline. Our deficits must continue to be reduced. . . .

This is our fiscal anchor. This is a line we shall not cross. It will ensure that our finances remain sustainable. Let me repeat: “This is a line we shall not cross.”

Less than one year later, Senator Gold, by her own admission, Minister Freeland has brought forward a budget that is not sustainable. The debt-to-GDP ratio, the Liberals’ so-called fiscal anchor, will be higher than projected not just for the upcoming 2023-24 fiscal year but also for the year after that.

Leader, now that the Jagmeet Singh–Trudeau government has tossed aside its fiscal anchor and crossed the line they said they would not cross, how can it claim any credibility whatsoever when it comes to Canada’s financial management? When will Justin Trudeau do the right thing and give Canadians the opportunity to again decide whether he has the right to govern this country?

Hon. Denise Batters: Senator Gold, another budget, and the Trudeau government still plans to triple the carbon tax that is crushing Canada’s farmers and consumers. It’s set to rise again on Saturday — fittingly, April Fool’s Day.

The Canadian Federation of Independent Business tells us that this year, more than $8 billion will be collected from small businesses in carbon tax, and only $35 million of it will be returned in rebates. “The Food Professor,” Dr. Sylvain Charlebois, wrote in a column today that small agri-food business owners are also really feeling the squeeze. He said that, as a result:

. . . by 2030, the carbon tax will potentially become a much more significant driver of food inflation than climate change itself.

Senator Gold, when will this Trudeau government axe the carbon tax so that Canadians can afford to eat?

Hon. Donald Neil Plett (Leader of the Opposition): Leader, when the recent reports of Beijing’s interference in our elections emerged, the Prime Minister did not treat them with the seriousness that they deserved. First, he blamed the whistle-blower. Then, he said the allegations were inaccurate, but he wouldn’t say why. He then went on to label legitimate questions as racism. After that, he had backbench Liberal MPs walk out and filibuster at committee for three weeks. Then, he appointed an old family friend and Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation member as a made-up special rapporteur.

Leader, the budget contained almost $50 million for the RCMP to counter foreign interference and protect Canadians from this harassment. How did the Prime Minister go from dismissing these reports to giving them an entire section in his budget in just a few short weeks?

Senator Plett: A year ago, leader, I actually received an answer to one of my written questions on the Senate’s Order Paper concerning foreign interference — it doesn’t happen very often. I asked how many Canadians had contacted the RCMP’s National Security Information Network regarding foreign interference. The answer was that — in 2021 alone — over 11,000 calls and emails were received, from which 682 tips were forwarded to the National Security Programme. In January 2022 alone, the RCMP received 873 calls and emails.

It seems to me that for some time now the RCMP has needed more resources to investigate foreign interference, including the harassment and intimidation of Canadians by Beijing’s Communist regime.

Would the RCMP have received this funding if the Prime Minister didn’t need to look as though he is taking the matter seriously?

Senator Gold: The funds that the RCMP is receiving are funds that are necessary to protect Canadians, and allow the RCMP to do its job — as they are faced with increasingly intensive attempts by many state parties and non-state actors to interfere in our institutions, and to sow chaos and mistrust amongst Canadians in the faith of those institutions. That’s the reason why the additional resources are made available to the RCMP, and we have every confidence that they will do their job.

An Hon. Senator: Hear, hear!