Hon. Denise Batters: Senator Dalphond, thank you for that explanation.

In your speech, you referenced the testimony of Alain Bartleman from the Indigenous Bar Association, but you did not set out today how Mr. Bartleman had actually made an important proviso when he expressed support, in a general way, for this particular act potentially being quite helpful as an access to justice issue. I asked him about that when he testified in front of the Legal Committee. I’ll read this so it’s correct. I note that when I was asking him about this, particularly referencing northern Saskatchewan, where I said that many Indigenous people live, of course, and they have had, “. . . drastic problems with the technology.” I was wondering if he had any comment about that area. He said:

Yes, there are technological gaps — major ones — and the Indigenous Bar Association, on the one hand, signals and applauds this act for moving in favour of greater accessibility through video conferencing.

But then he said:

However, it also notes its concerns that if the promises found within this bill are not matched by concomitant investments into technology — and not simply internet connectivity technology . . . could take quite some time to catch up, but also training in how that technology is used and in developing a measure of comfort with that technology — this effort will be, for lack of a better term, stunted. It will not be as effective as it could be.

Senator Dalphond, as I said then, that’s a major qualification that he made on that particular issue, and certainly we have seen that. We saw some dire examples just even in our Senate Legal Committee with a witness from Nunavut legal aid who had a very good office and, you would think, good connectivity, and she had a terrible time.

We have, of course, seen the same problems many times with senators testifying from many different places in Canada, including some of the largest cities, not even necessarily rural or remote locations.

Getting back to what Mr. Bartleman said, would you acknowledge that he acknowledged that the Government of Canada absolutely needs to make major investments in technology, and we haven’t really seen those efforts come to fruition yet? I wonder if you have any insight into when the government will actually fulfill their promises on that.

Thank you.

Senator Dalphond: Thank you, Senator Batters, for this excellent question.

I have already acknowledged these challenges in my speech, and I said that it was a call to action for the federal government, the provinces and the territories. As we know, in our constitutional system the administration of justice is a matter which is under the jurisdiction of the provinces and the territories. Therefore, the federal government can assist and can even provide financing, but, at the end of the day, the operation of courthouses — except federal courthouses — will always remain under the jurisdiction and responsibility of the provinces.

Also, remember that the minister, when he appeared before the committee, mentioned that they committed — I forget how many — millions of dollars in the previous budget for improvements to access to justice, and that could be used for that purpose. I certainly agree with you and with the observations made by the committee that not only should we have access to what we call remote attendance for all those who would like to avail themselves of that option, but that option should be made available on an equal basis to all Canadians who would like to use it. Therefore, we must be sure that especially in the Northwest Territories, where the distances are so big, they also have access to quality internet and equipment in order to participate remotely. Otherwise they will have to travel again over long distances sometimes just to appear to plead guilty on a summary conviction charge, which doesn’t really make sense.

Thank you for your question and observations. I think the committee also picked it up.

Senator Batters: Senator Dalphond, with respect to the particular issue of broadband technology across Canada, this is a promise the federal government has made a number of different times over the last few years — to improve broadband technology across Canada. Obviously, we’re not necessarily just dealing with courthouse administration of justice here. We’re dealing with broadband technology so that many different people across Canada can properly access these tools. Mr. Bartleman pointed out the need for a drastic improvement in these major gaps that we see across Canada — not only in rural and remote areas, but certainly that is the most pronounced area.

Since you’re the sponsor of this particular federal government bill, and the government has made major promises — including in the last election campaign — about expanding broadband technology, what is the update as to when that is going to happen? How much money will be promised for that and when?

Senator Dalphond: I think maybe the question is beyond even the domain of the justice minister. I know that in the budget, a lot of money was committed to providing access to broadband to all Canadians everywhere, especially in remote areas.

I know that in Quebec, there was an agreement between the federal and provincial governments to extend quality internet access to remote areas all across the province. I hope that similar programs are moving forward. Certainly, I acknowledge — with you — that the Northwest Territories is still not a province but a kind of federal structure, so the federal government could certainly be more precise and send more money in particular to that area to assist in providing broadband.

Maybe that is a question more for the finance minister than for the justice minister. I have the honour to speak on the justice minister’s behalf only for this bill, and not the running of his department or the government.

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