SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 286 - Feb/27/24

Ms. Jenny Kwan (Vancouver East, NDP)

Feb/27/24 3:16:40 p.m.
Watch

Mr. Speaker, more than eight million people in Sudan have been displace through 10 months of war. This has been devastating for people in Sudan and for their family members in Canada. The special immigration measure for Ukrainians set important standards, and it should apply everywhere else. Canada showed that we can help those facing war and persecution when 220,000 Ukrainians got to safety. However, the Liberals put an arbitrary 1,000-person limit for people in Gaza and 3,250 for Sudan. Will the minister lift these caps so that no Canadians with families in war zones are discriminated against?

102 words

Hon. Marc Miller (Minister of Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship, Lib.)

Feb/27/24 3:17:22 p.m.
Watch

Mr. Speaker, as the member well knows, the pathway for people fleeing war in Sudan opens today. We worked with a number of Sudanese umbrella organizations on this important measure so that Canadians are really showing that they are opening their doors to people fleeing war. I am always ready to be more flexible as we see the situation evolve. It is clear that we, as Canadians, need to do more when it comes to, in particular, this forgotten war that is obviously getting less media attention than all the other devastating wars around the world. We are prepared to do more. We will continue to work with the umbrella organizations to make sure that they can welcome Sudanese people fleeing war.

122 words

Ms. Laurel Collins (Victoria, NDP)

Feb/27/24 3:18:06 p.m.
Watch

Mr. Speaker, 30% of the screening officers at Victoria's airport have lost their jobs without due process and with no access to an appeal. Their employer wanted to keep them on, but the Canadian Air Transport Security Authority interfered, undermining labour relations and costing people their jobs. To make matters worse, the Minister of Transport refuses to meet with them. Again, the Liberals are dropping the ball when it comes to protecting workers. Why is the minister refusing to meet with these workers and their union?

87 words

Hon. Seamus O'Regan (Minister of Labour and Seniors, Lib.)

Feb/27/24 3:18:43 p.m.
Watch

Mr. Speaker, I can say, certainly today of all days, we stand with workers, and we stand for a stable and fair working environment. I will immediately look into the situation that the member described.

35 words

The Speaker

Feb/27/24 3:18:59 p.m.
Watch
Re: Bill C-58

It being 3:18 p.m., the House will now proceed to the taking of the deferred recorded division on the motion at second reading stage of Bill C-58. Call in the members.

34 words

The Deputy Speaker

Feb/27/24 3:31:42 p.m.
Watch

I declare the motion carried. Accordingly, the bill stands referred to the Standing Committee on Human Resources, Skills and Social Development and the Status of Persons with Disabilities.

28 words

The Deputy Speaker

Feb/27/24 3:31:53 p.m.
Watch

I wish to inform the House that because of the deferred recorded division, Government Orders will be extended by 12 minutes.

21 words

Mr. Majid Jowhari (Richmond Hill, Lib.)

Feb/27/24 3:32:51 p.m.
Watch

Mr. Speaker, let me summarize what I talked about during the first minutes of my speech. I talked about the fact that the ArriveCAN application could not have been developed for $80,000, but it should not have cost $60 million either. We talked about the paper cost of this application. Had we processed 60 million transactions, it would have cost $180 million. We talked about the valuation of an application as such. If it were an e-commerce application, transactions at the transactional level, it would have been hundreds of millions of dollars. This perspective is vital in understanding the true value of ArriveCAN. The app's development cost, while substantial, represented just one aspect of its overall contributions. The efficiency, safety and economic benefits it delivered during a critical time offers a more comprehensive picture of its value to Canada and its citizens. Our commitment to rectifying the identified shortcomings in the ArriveCAN project extend beyond mere acknowledgement. The departments are actively implementing measures to enhance the procurement and project management practices to prevent such discrepancies in the future. These efforts are crucial in restoring public trust and ensuring that taxpayer funds are utilized effectively and responsibly. We recognize that there is more work to be done. The journey toward improving our procurement processes and ensuring the efficient use of public funds is ongoing. However, it is important for Canadians to know that these steps toward corrective action are not merely planned; they are already in motion. As we move forward, we will continue to support the ongoing work of investigators and auditors. We welcome their recommendations and are committed to implementing them to strengthen our procurement practices further. The Government of Canada remains resolute in its pledge to uphold the principles of accountability, transparency, process integrity and value for money in all its endeavours. Let me reiterate our unwavering dedication to learning from the ArriveCAN experience. Our goal is to ensure that our responses to any challenges are both effective and aligned with the prudent management of public resources.

342 words

Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Feb/27/24 3:35:46 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, in debating this, I have tried to break this into two components. One is on the procurement process. The member provided a lot of positive thoughts with respect to that issue. The other one is related to how a company such as GC Strategies has been able to get to the point where it can get those sorts of contracts. I made the suggestion that we look at the origins of the company, which goes back a number of years. It is the same company but it just changed its name. Is there merit in looking at how an individual company was able to come virtually from nowhere a decade ago to the point where it is today?

120 words

Mr. Majid Jowhari

Feb/27/24 3:36:46 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, that is the essence. The essence was that there were practices in procurement that fostered a two-man company, dating back decades, to find ways to become a preferred client of the Government of Canada and through that preferential treatment being able to source resources, individuals, to serve whether it is this government, the government before or the department during the time that is needed. It goes back to what we should be doing, and I hope we will do it, which is re-evaluating our procurement processes so it is not such a lengthy time, and also accounts for other individuals who actually do the work to speed up the process of engaging with the government.

119 words

Mrs. Anna Roberts (King—Vaughan, CPC)

Feb/27/24 3:37:47 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, my constituents sent me to the House so we could become accountable on how we spent their valued tax dollars. Would the hon. member please tell the residents of Canada why the government is not prepared to release all the documents to ensure that the funds that were spent were spent efficiently? This is not the case and unless we can become accountable, we cannot report that back to our constituents. Could he please explain that?

78 words

Mr. Majid Jowhari

Feb/27/24 3:38:22 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, very much as my hon. colleague is proud to represent her constituents, I am also proud to represent my constituents of Richmond Hill. The statement that was just made was not completely factual. The fact of the matter is that when the investigations were done, whether it was by the Auditor General or the procurement ombudsman, they clearly indicated that any time they requested documents, the government, the department, was forthcoming with all the documents that were available. The statement just made is misrepresenting what the government has done and also misrepresenting the results of the investigation. As such, the member is misrepresenting the facts to the Canadian people.

111 words

Mr. Taylor Bachrach (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP)

Feb/27/24 3:39:11 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, government outsourcing to the big six consultants went from $119 million prepandemic to over $470 million last year, and the ArriveCAN scandal is just the tip of the iceberg. The big challenge we are facing is that both Liberal and Conservative governments have chosen to privatize the work of government. Can my colleague across the way explain how government outsourcing has ballooned by over four times over the last number of years?

74 words

Mr. Majid Jowhari

Feb/27/24 3:39:46 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, it is true that consulting services have ballooned over the last eight years we have been in power, but we have to be able to clearly explain to Canadians why this has happened. It has happened because our government has a very clear vision around where we want to take Canada. For that to happen, we need to make sure that as we transition our department and roll out a digital strategy, we have the best practices and the benchmarks to be able to ensure the pathway we develop for that transition is the right pathway. Where most of these consulting services have gone is to making sure we understand which jurisdictions are the best, where we need to benchmark and get data, and how to develop a path forward. That is where the money has been spent, and that is where the value of the money is, because we have a clear vision of where we want to take Canada.

163 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara (Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.)

Feb/27/24 3:40:49 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, it is always wonderful to rise in this most honourable House to speak on various topics, and today, the opposition motion. If we remember the period of 2021 and the global pandemic, our government undertook a number of measures to both protect Canadians and assist Canadians. We protected Canadians by receiving and contracting for vaccines and getting personal protective equipment, and we assisted Canadians, Canadian workers and Canadian businesses through the Canada emergency wage subsidy, the CERB and a number of other measures. We literally kept a part of the economy going that was basically frozen due to the pandemic, and, working with our provincial colleagues, that allowed us to come out of the pandemic faster and stronger than any other country across the G7, across our developed partners. We see the results today in our employment numbers and our unemployment rate, in our GDP growth and in where the country is going. We had the backs of Canadians during the pandemic; we will always have the backs of Canadians, and we did the right thing. With regard to today's opposition motion, let me make a few comments. I want to begin by saying that our government is committed to protecting the integrity of the federal procurement process. The recent allegations related to the procurement of professional services for the ArriveCAN app are simply unacceptable. The Auditor General and the procurement ombud have uncovered inappropriate conduct on the part of some suppliers and some government officials. While investigations are still under way into what happened in these cases, we are acting now on behalf of Canadians and implementing the recommendations of the Auditor General and the procurement ombud. I want to reiterate that our government is deeply concerned about the allegations regarding the procurement of IT services for the ArriveCAN app. Furthermore, taxpayers have the right to ask tough questions about how public funds were spent. While important questions have been raised about the conduct of a handful of public servants during the ArriveCAN procurement process, I want to emphasize that Canada was facing an emergency at the time and that so many others in the public service stepped up to meet the needs. In the spring of 2020, we were faced with one of the most serious public health crises our country has ever seen. I am proud to say that our government made every effort to protect Canadians by purchasing essential supplies and services. Meeting the needs of Canadians during the COVID-19 pandemic was a monumental task on many fronts, for the government and for the world. Public servants worked non-stop to support our frontline health care professionals and all those keeping Canadians safe. From the beginning, public servants followed a deliberate, strategic and comprehensive plan that helped Canada get results. We can all take pride in the fact that our focused approach allowed Canada to secure a supply of vaccines and personal protective equipment when we needed them most and to ultimately get us out of the pandemic. Yes, I do believe in vaccinations; I do believe in science, and I do believe in doctors. We supplied those vaccines to Canadians, and we protected Canadians. Unfortunately, we had about 57,000 Canadians pass away due to COVID and its impact, but we protected millions. In fact, Canada was a world leader on this front, thanks to the hard work of many Canadians across the country. We acted quickly, because we had to, but that does not excuse the mismanagement that has been uncovered with respect to the ArriveCAN app. I want to assure the House and all Canadians that the findings of the Auditor General and the procurement ombud are being taken seriously and that we trust our law enforcement agencies, such as the RCMP, to investigate any wrongdoing. Let me be absolutely clear on the fact that any criminal wrongdoing will lead to consequences. Our government's goal now is to strengthen certain aspects of the federal procurement system, and I know that public servants will use these lessons learned to improve the way they do business with contractors. Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, is the central purchasing agent for the government and has an important role to play here. For ArriveCAN, PSPC provided support to the Canada Border Services Agency with contracting tools and lists of suppliers that could be used for the project. It was incumbent on the CBSA to define the requirements for ArriveCAN and to manage the ArriveCAN development and maintenance contracts, based on the policy direction provided by the Public Health Agency of Canada. Even though greater flexibility in procurement allows us to be more agile, especially in times of crisis, it is clear that the governance and monitoring around procurement needs to be improved. I want the House to know that PSPC has already taken measures to strengthen its processes and review its functions. In November, PSPC informed every government department and agency that it was adopting new, stricter measures, introducing a common set of principles and mandatory procedures that they must abide by to use PSPC's professional services contracting instruments. These measures will enable PSPC to improve the evaluation requirements to ensure that resources are qualified, to demand more transparency from suppliers regarding their prices and use of subcontractors, to improve documentation when contracts are awarded and task authorizations are issued, to clarify the work requirements and activities, to specify the initiatives and projects being worked on, and to assess the resources just before the work begins to ensure that the services are indeed being provided by the proposed resources. I would also like to mention the action our government is taking to improve and strengthen the integrity regime. Our government introduced the integrity regime in 2015 to foster ethical business practices, ensure due process and uphold the public trust. The integrity regime is always being improved and strengthened, including when it comes to fraud, and PSPC continually strives to ensure that we hold suppliers accountable for any misconduct. On an ongoing basis, PSPC proactively uses data analysis to identify any inappropriate conduct and investigate any potential wrongdoing in contracts. If an investigation uncovers any wrongdoing, PSPC informs law enforcement so that a criminal investigation can be conducted. The department also seeks to recover the funds when wrongdoing is discovered. In conclusion, I must emphasize that we are committed to using an open, fair and transparent procurement process while obtaining the best possible value for Canadian taxpayers. The ArriveCAN app was put in place to protect Canadians. It enabled us to keep Canadians safe by managing public health measures at the border in a time of crisis. It was absolutely necessary. Without that essential tool, Canada's ability to deploy the border measures necessary to protect public health would have been significantly diminished. I look forward to questions and comments, and I hope everyone is having a great afternoon.

1158 words

Mr. Frank Caputo (Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo, CPC)

Feb/27/24 3:50:57 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, it is always a pleasure to rise on behalf of the people from Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo. It always seems as though I am rising when my friend and colleague is speaking. One of the things that really strikes me about the ArriveCAN app and all that has gone wrong is that the Liberals seem to be saying there is nothing to see here as they have done absolutely everything, yet the key thing they did was the doubling of outsourcing. The second thing is that the Liberals have failed to spot this. There should have been a glaring red light saying stop and yet here we are today with this motion. First, will he be supporting our motion? Second, how can we trust the Liberal government in light of those things?

135 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Feb/27/24 3:51:50 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I wish to thank the hon. member for Kamloops—Thompson—Cariboo from the interior of British Columbia, I have said before that our families have known each other for about six decades since our parents immigrated to Canada. The hon. member and I both know the value of a dollar and how hard it is to work and save that dollar. We need to make sure the processes in place in government are robust and effective. Where things have gone wrong, where there have been actions, criminal or not, where taxpayer dollars have been utilized by whomever, there needs to be an investigation. There needs to be transparency. Literally thousands of documents have been turned over to, I think, the OGGO committee. If the RCMP or any other organization needs to be called upon, we will get to the bottom of it. It is important for me, it is important for the hon. member and it is important for all Canadians.

165 words

Mr. René Villemure (Trois-Rivières, BQ)

Feb/27/24 3:52:46 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I thank my hon. colleague, who was at the Standing Committee on Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics this morning. When I look at ArriveCAN, I see the latest in a long line of fiascos. I recall the government was having a hard time delivering passports. It is having a hard time with immigration. It is having a hard time with a lot of programs. It is losing internal expertise. It is relying on outside consultants. It is unable to control them. I wonder, will my colleague admit that his government is utterly incompetent?

96 words

Mr. Francesco Sorbara

Feb/27/24 3:53:21 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for his question. It is a very strange question. Since 2015, we have introduced many measures to help the middle class. Some of those measures are the Canada child benefit, the Canada workers benefit and a national day care plan. We responded to a crisis, the pandemic. We have responded to the war in Ukraine. We finalized CETA. We have put CUSMA in place. Our government has had the backs of Canadians since 2015. I could list about 40 or 50 items that I would be more than happy to send the hon. member. I know they are helping Canadians, Quebeckers, Ontarians and folks across this country. We will continue to do the good work that our residents and Canadians elected us to do.

130 words

Ms. Rachel Blaney (North Island—Powell River, NDP)

Feb/27/24 3:54:15 p.m.
Watch

Madam Speaker, before this I was the executive director of a non-profit and I remember when we wrote proposals to the federal government. We had to define every single thing that went under office supplies. If we missed anything we would not be reimbursed for it. I see this corporate greed where both Conservatives and Liberals have a long history of just giving money over. The truth is that in 2015 to 2016, Deloitte received $11 million, already an amazing amount of money, from the Conservatives, and then from 2020 to 2023 that shot up to $275 million. What does Deloitte have that is interesting for everybody in this country? They have one former minister from the Liberals working there and one former minister from the Conservatives working there. When will either of these parties stand up for working people and stop defending their corporate friends?

147 words