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Context: House Hansard - 181 - Apr/20/23

Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

Apr/20/23 12:16:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for her speech. I also thank my colleague from Abitibi—Témiscamingue, who led this debate this morning. It is really very important. There are many leading aerospace industries in Longueuil, including Héroux‑Devtek and Pratt & Whitney, not to mention the École nationale d'aérotechnique. Héroux‑Devtek manufactures landing gear, and we like to say that Longueuil set foot on the moon before Neil Armstrong, since the Apollo 11 landing gear was made in Longueuil. That is very, very important to us. We have an airport back home. In recent years, I held a public consultation on the development of the Saint-Hubert airport. Development is important. We spoke about it at length this morning. Having said that, it is important that any development respect the people living there and have social licence. The industry creates a lot of air and noise pollution, especially for small regional airports. An innovation hub is being set up in Longueuil. We are also establishing a cutting-edge industry focusing on the development of electric motors, in particular electric batteries. The Government of Quebec will probably invest in it. I would like to know if my colleague could support this project to ensure that the federal government contributes financially, which would make our little airport a leading-edge airport and a really strategic airport—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Apr/20/23 12:17:58 p.m.
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When I give the signal, I expect members to finish their sentence so that we can move on. The hon. member for Halifax West.

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Ms. Lena Metlege Diab

Apr/20/23 12:18:08 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I really appreciate my colleague from Longueuil—Saint‑Hubert. We worked together in the area of francophone affairs. I am very proud to be in the House with him this morning and to answer his question. I know that he is a proud Quebecker. The Government of Canada looks forward very much to working with all colleagues from Quebec and those from all the other provinces in the House of Commons.

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Mr. Tony Baldinelli (Niagara Falls, CPC)

Apr/20/23 12:18:55 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, like my hon. colleague, I have aerospace companies in my riding. I have Airbus Helicopters. Throughout the country, Airbus employs 4,000 people, including 250 in my riding alone. Airbus Helicopters has been in my community for almost 40 years. Dwayne Charette, the president and COO of Airbus Helicopters, spoke during committee hearings on this specific issue. He identified the disconnect between post-secondary educational offerings and the type of advanced manufacturing skills required in the aerospace sector. Could the member talk about the need for the government to create a program or to respond to the gap that exists between educational institutions and advanced manufacturing companies in the aerospace sector?

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Ms. Lena Metlege Diab

Apr/20/23 12:19:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank my colleague for the very important question. He is definitely correct that education is key. It is key for our younger people, and quite frankly, for anybody of any age. These industries are specialized, and we need to create a lot more opportunities to take advantage of the great colleges, universities and programs that we have across Canada. The Government of Canada very much looks forward to working with our provincial partners and educational institutions to do exactly that.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Apr/20/23 12:20:40 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I have a question that directly relates to recommendation 3 of the committee's report. It is no secret that Canadian aerospace has benefited workers right across the country, but there is certainly an economy that exists within aerospace beyond just the navigation of these flights; for example, there is the actual maintenance of the equipment. It is important that we support, invest and actually find ways to have local, domestic manufacturers produce some of these parts. Does the member agree that recommendation 3 has aspects of what we need to see?

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Ms. Lena Metlege Diab

Apr/20/23 12:21:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I absolutely agree. Any time we can invest in anything that we can grow locally, we should be doing so. I am definitely for everything local that we can do. It is better for our people, our communities and our country.

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Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia (Lac-Saint-Louis, Lib.)

Apr/20/23 12:21:47 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I am pleased to address the issue of the aerospace and aviation industry. I grew up in Montreal, and my family and I were always aware of the existence of this industry, particularly when we went down what was then called Laurentien Boulevard in Cartierville. There was even an airport attached to the Canadair plant. Now it has become a residential area, but it was very impressive to go by that plant. In fact, I believe that, today, it is by far the biggest manufacturing plant in Montreal. My father worked for Canadair after the war, in the 1950s, when Canadair specialized in manufacturing aircraft for putting out forest fires. I have always been aware of the aerospace industry. However, I am rather confused as to why the decision was made to discuss this report now. If I am not mistaken, this report is over a year old and the government has already issued a response to it, as it is required to do when a committee report is tabled. It is my understanding that we are supposed to be debating Bill C‑27, which deals with some issues that are very important at present. The purpose of this bill to modernize our privacy protection laws in a context where we are increasingly seeing the danger of the spread of disinformation. It is a growing and current challenge that threatens the very foundation of democracy. Bill C‑27 is timely. I think it addresses rather crucial issues for our society. That being said, I would like to turn to the subject at hand, which is the aviation and aerospace industry. In Montreal, this industry has a long and extraordinary history. It goes back nearly a century. Montreal in particular played a key role in the Second World War. I have before me an article from the Hamilton Spectator dated September 7, 1939. I will read a few paragraphs from this article. It will become clear that Canada and Quebec, but especially Montreal, were instrumental in the war effort in Europe. This article is from New York. A sharp expansion in Canadian airplane manufacture is expected as a result of President Roosevelt’s proclamation of the United States Neutrality Act, the New York Herald-Tribune says today.... The neutrality proclamation has cut off for the time being at least the delivery of nearly half of the 600 warplanes ordered in the United States by France, Great Britain and Australia. “The embargo proclamation, however, does not interfere with the manufacture of similar planes in Canada under licences already obtained by the Dominion's manufacturers from American firms,” the dispatch says. Basically, what was happening was that the United States was not allowed to export fully built airplanes to Europe to help with the war effort, but it was not prohibited from sending parts to Canada and having Canadian manufacturers manufacture the planes and send them over to Europe. There were two important manufacturers in Montreal that were doing this manufacturing for overseas markets. One was Vickers, which, as I understand, later became Canadair, and the other was Fairchild Aircraft, which I believe was located on the South Shore, in the riding of Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, which became, after that, United Aircraft, and then Pratt & Whitney. Another Montreal company was involved in this wartime production, and that was the Canadian Car and Foundry Company. That company was founded in 1909. It was given a contract to produce Hurricane aircraft. By 1943, the company had a workforce of 4,500 people, half of them women, I might add, and had built 1,400 aircraft, about 10% of all the Hurricanes built worldwide. I would like to take a moment to mention the company's chief engineer, a woman by the name of Elsie MacGill. Let me tell members a bit about Elsie MacGill. She was known as the “Queen of the Hurricanes”, and she was the world's first woman to earn an aeronautical engineering degree and the first woman in Canada to receive a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering. She worked as an aeronautical engineer during World War II and did much to make Canada a powerhouse of aircraft construction during her years at the Canadian Car and Foundry. We can see, very clearly, that Montreal and Quebec and Canada played an extraordinarily large role in the development of aerospace and aeronautics. Montreal is the home of IATA, the International Air Transport Association, which governs procedures, rules and regulations around commercial transport in the world. It is an international organization. I would also like to mention that Dorval Airport basically started as part of the war effort that saw planes built in Montreal and other parts of Canada and shipped over to Europe. Dorval Airport, now known as Pierre Elliott Trudeau International Airport, and I say that very proudly, was where the Ferry Command was based. The Ferry Command was a process by which planes would leave from Dorval and fly to England. These airplanes were being delivered to the air force over there. Montreal has an extremely rich history, and throughout that history it has built up an industrial cluster or an industrial ecosystem. Because next week is Tourism Week, I would also like to mention, in passing, that in my riding of Lac-Saint-Louis we have the Montreal Aviation Museum, which I invite members to visit because they will learn all about Montreal's and Canada's aviation history.

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Mr. Kelly McCauley (Edmonton West, CPC)

Apr/20/23 12:31:05 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I used to be on the board of the Alberta Aviation Museum, so I invite my colleague to come to Edmonton to see probably one of the very best aviation museums. We actually have a Super Sabre there, which I believe is the first physical plane to break the sound barrier in Canada. Getting back to the maritime surveillance aircraft that Canada is looking to procure and sole-source, does the member believe that the government should be going to an open competition, perhaps to see if there are Canadian companies or more jobs created in Canada for that, rather than simply sole-sourcing it to the U.S.?

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Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia

Apr/20/23 12:31:56 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I hope to some day have the opportunity to visit that museum; I am sure it is quite impressive. In terms of the surveillance plane, my understanding is that a decision has not been made. It is not a file that I follow as closely as perhaps my colleague and others do. What I am hoping for and what I believe will happen is that the government will put together an approach to make sure that wherever the plane is manufactured, there are economic benefits for Canada. I trust and hope that will be the case.

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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Apr/20/23 12:32:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Lac-Saint-Louis for his speech. I would like to know whether he is prepared to get personally involved and pressure his party and the Liberal government to put in place a truly national aerospace strategy. Would he support recommendation 1 to create a centre for excellence on aeronautics 4.0, along with college and university centres of expertise in the field, so it can increase our research and development capacity and Montreal's small and medium-sized ecosystem as a whole? I think that Montreal would be quite willing to house such a centre. Can I count on my colleague's support?

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Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia

Apr/20/23 12:33:12 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as a member from the Montreal area, I support any investment that strengthens the region's economy. I do not follow this file as closely as my colleague does, but I believe the government issued a report last summer on the state of the Canadian aerospace industry. I assume this report provided an overview of the industry's economic impact. I expect the report will be used as a basis for a future strategic approach to this industrial sector.

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Mr. Blake Desjarlais (Edmonton Griesbach, NDP)

Apr/20/23 12:34:10 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I want to speak specifically about recommendation 5, in relation to a national strategy. It is no secret that it is needed right across the country. Canadians deserve an aerospace sector that actually delivers not just for consumers and for our country, but also for the workers within it. Especially with the economic conditions of the country right now, where we are seeing signals of a recession, we need to actually see management and labour come together in better ways so there will be a benefit for everyone. We know the government sometimes struggles with ensuring that labour and management co-operate. We are seeing that right now; we just need to look outside, not too far. What are the member's thoughts on ensuring that we actually see a national strategy that brings all these partners together in a fair and consistent way?

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Mr. Francis Scarpaleggia

Apr/20/23 12:35:02 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this is a good question, but it presumes that the government has not been making strategic investments all these years in the industry, and it has. It is part of an evolving approach that becomes a strategy over time. In terms of labour-management relations, I am not familiar with problems in that relationship, but I am sure industry and labour work pretty closely together, and I hope they continue to work closely together to promote the industry and make it stronger in Canada.

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Mr. Ryan Williams (Bay of Quinte, CPC)

Apr/20/23 12:35:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, this is an exciting time for aerospace. Just this morning, we got to watch Starship, SpaceX's newest project, live in our office. Starship is twice as big as the Saturn V rockets, with 35 rocket engines. It blasted off this morning from Boca Chica, Texas. It went almost into space and unfortunately got caught in a spiral and kept going around and around before they had to hit the self-destruct button. It reminds me a bit of the Liberal government, but that is a story for another time. It is very exciting, because we are seeing private space companies in the U.S., and of course representing the whole world, involved in space travel. With respect to another story, the Artemis II crew was announced a couple of weeks ago, including Canadian Space Agency astronaut and RCAF captain Jeremy Hansen. It is very exciting that we have a Canadian astronaut joining the U.S. on the Artemis missions as we go back to the moon. That is something we can be very proud of. From the field of engineering that deals with the design, development, production and operation of vehicles and systems that operate in the earth's atmosphere or in space, Canada has a dynamic industry with aircraft, spacecraft, satellite and missile systems, which of course we call the aerospace sector. I know that many of our colleagues have talked about great companies that are operating here in Canada, including in Montreal and other parts of the country, all working on different systems in the aerospace sector. Let us be clear on this, and this report is very clear: We need to get back to the basics. The Canadian aerospace sector is not broken, but the government's role is. In my last point, I am going to talk about what this report really spoke about and what we need to do. Number one, we need to identify aerospace as a pillar of Canadian industrial policy again. We have seen it blanketed. We have a term that we hear from experts and from witnesses all the time when we are talking about the spectrum of industrial policy. It is that we spread the peanut butter too thin. In Canada, we seem to think that we are just going to give everything to everyone and that at the end of the day maybe that is going to be a really good strategy with which Canada evolves, but it is not. We seem to spread it all too thin. Aerospace is one of those industries in Canada that we can afford to put more into, and we are going to get more out of it. I am going to talk specifically about that. Before I do that, I want to say that I am happily splitting my time today with the member for South Shore—St. Margarets. The second part is very important. When we talk about aerospace, it means that we put an emphasis on research and development and first-stage innovation. When we talk about other sectors in Canada where we need to succeed, it is about putting an emphasis on first-stage innovation, research and development, because when we put an emphasis on research and development, we are getting something out of that. Something that we are also studying in the science and research committee right now is owning what we create or commercializing our IP. When we are looking at all these strategies, there is not just one thing we have to do. We have to do all these complex things at the same time, but we really need to commercialize IP and put more money into research, and then of course focus on aerospace as being one of those industries. Part of that is going to be deregulating the industry. Also, what is probably most important is establishing a national procurement strategy to support defence and the aerospace sector. I really want to focus on that last point first, because it is the most important. The Washington Post had an article yesterday that was really concerning because it mentioned that the Prime Minister told NATO that Canada will never meet its spending goal. That is very concerning. Canada's widespread military deficiencies are harming ties with security partners and allies. These shortfalls lead the Canadian Armed Forces to not be able to participate fully across the world. We have had really big problems with not meeting our commitments with NATO and our commitments across the world. The Americans are concerned about our ability to protect our Arctic against Russian and Chinese aggression. The Germans are concerned about whether Canada will continue to aid Ukraine. Turkey is disappointed by the Canadian military not being funded enough to support transport of humanitarian aid when it had an earthquake earlier last month. Haiti is frustrated by Ottawa's reluctance to lead a multinational security mission. However, this is the biggest glaring hole in economic opportunity. Other nations, like Germany, the U.K., Australia and the U.S., have figured out how to make defence policy industrial policy, and have that policy create powerful paycheques to their citizens and proud, private enterprises that provide income to their countries. This is what Canada needs to do, and what it needs to do with defence when it relates to aerospace. The key differential between our approach to defence policy and the British approach is that industry is included in the definition of defence policy from the outset. By the time the British defence and security policy is stable, most of the companies selected to deliver the products and services have already been identified as part of a defence strategy and then a procurement strategy. In 2017, 56% of the U.K. procurement was sole-sourced with a large majority awarded to the British industry providing billions to the country's GDP. How does that relate to Canada and the aerospace industry? Well, let us look at our neighbour south of us and, of course, to the rocket launch this morning. A really big stat is from NASA, which has a bigger budget than Canada's defence budget as a whole. When we look at SpaceX, a private industry, 85% of its budget comes from NASA. When we talk about that rocket this morning exploding, probably bad news for Elon Musk, but great news for the engineers and part of the product, because they are going to build a new rocket and try again. That is part of first-stage innovation with companies. They are going to put more of that money into those industries. The thousands of engineers, product designers and workers, as I alluded to earlier, who are part of that process is just astounding as well as the GDP that is put back from it. One side note is that SpaceX is involved with Starlink, and that American company, funded, of course, by the defence policy and NASA, is actually providing Internet to Canadians. Hundreds of thousands of Canadians are getting Internet not from Canadian companies but from the U.S. company Starlink, from Elon Musk, which is a part again of this procurement policy that was started by NASA. NASA funds 85% of SpaceX and no doubt will be funding all new projects for space going forward. We can see how defence spending ends up being a Canadian prosperity plan. It is good for Canadians and powerful paycheques, and it also can be, of course, a great industrial policy. I want to go back to R and D and what we used to have. We used have a couple of programs with the Conservative government, prior to the Liberal government, like SADI and AIAC that were specific to the aerospace sector. Again, those specific programs went into research and development for the sector for certain companies. We had a witness come to the committee from Héroux-Devtek Inc., Mr. Gilles Labbé, who talked about a landing gear process. This is a company in Quebec that had a landing gear project, and when he talked about the project, he talked about a ticket that normally costs between $50 million and $70 million U.S. with the process taking as long as five years. Through those SADI programs that we used to have from the government, that was almost entirely funded by the government. It helped that company save five years and evolve. That company went from having 200 employees to now over 2,000 employees. What happened with that R and D program is that the SADI was evolved into the SIF program. However, again, with that peanut butter spread too thin, the SIF program looks at many different industries and not aerospace specifically or targeted specifically. What has happened is that those companies are finding they are missing out on that first-stage innovation and the R and D. When we look at R and D as a specific purpose of industrial policy, what we should be looking at are examples such as DARPA advanced manufacturing in the U.S. and, of course, looking at specific sectors. Again, to my point, aerospace needs to be a specific sector that we put R and D into, and when we look at procurement policies, we should certainly see it as a bright future and Canadian industrial policy, which is the only way we are going to help this industry succeed. We have a lot of different issues that we need to look at across the defence spectrum, but certainly aerospace is going to be able to fulfill that. As Canadians, we certainly we need to reach for the stars and start looking at aerospace again as not just an industry but a major industry for industrial policy, research and development, procurement policy and, again, looking at investing in defence and linking that to the aerospace industry to ensure that Canada succeeds, those workers succeed and those companies succeed.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Apr/20/23 12:45:39 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I could not help but notice that the member made reference to Elon Musk and the fact that his SpaceX company's rocket blew up, which he says is good news, because that means more research and technology. The member seems to be a big fan of the private sector. Now, I am thinking, and I am sure my colleague, the member for Abbotsford, is thinking too just wait a minute. John Diefenbaker, on the Avro Arrow, destroyed the program, which was not good news. All this science and technology and advances have been lost as a result of a bad decision by a former prime minister. Does the member not recognize that maybe the government does have a role to play in terms of research and technology, something that we have been doing and supporting in the aerospace industry for the last number of years as a government, or does he believe that the private sector, people like Elon Musk, is better off to advance the aerospace industry?

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Mr. Ryan Williams

Apr/20/23 12:46:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, Elon Musk is doing great things. I wish the member had listened to a bit more of my speech. The government has a role. The problem is the government has not been playing the role it needs to with the industry. The industry has spoken to our committee, and the industry has stated that it wants the government's role to be more in R&D and target specific, and that government should announce aerospace is a growing, specific, major sector for Canadian industrial policy. Then it should play the role it needs to. At first-stage innovation, government should put money into growing companies, and then let the private sector commercialize the IP of those companies and make all the money they can, so they provide paycheques to Canadians.

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Ms. Niki Ashton (Churchill—Keewatinook Aski, NDP)

Apr/20/23 12:47:30 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I also want to share my surprise at the defence of Elon Musk and the SpaceX rocket that just blew up. While there was some reference to that being problematic, we need to cycle back and recognize that Elon Musk and anyone seeking to profit off space or space exploration is very problematic. We need to be talking about what is in the interest of the public good. Speaking about Elon Musk, I also want to acknowledge, besides aerospace, this is somebody who is making major profits off communities, particularly in our riding, when it comes to the service delivery of Internet. That is because the federal government has abdicated its responsibility. Both Conservative and Liberal governments have failed to deliver accessible, affordable, quality Internet to so many communities in our region. It is time for the federal government to step up on aerospace and on Internet provision. Will the member recognize that we should not be here defending Elon Musk, and instead we should be defending Canada's role in seeking the public good when it comes to space?

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Apr/20/23 12:48:44 p.m.
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I think it is very disrespectful that a lot of parliamentarians are having side conversations when someone else has the floor. I would say that if they want to have those conversations, they should take them out into the lobby. The hon. member for Bay of Quinte.

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Mr. Ryan Williams

Apr/20/23 12:49:04 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we could get into debate about whether socialism is really something that provides wealth to its citizens or just takes away from its citizens. On this side of the House we really believe in private capital and a capitalist society that has been beneficial to Canadians. Its powerful paycheques could provide wealth to Canadians, instead of having the government run deficit after deficit until Canadians are broke. Certainly this country is broken. We really believe in the private sector, and that Canadians can and will create good jobs, great ideas and provide powerful paycheques for their own citizens, for the people here in Canada. Conservatives will always stand on the side of those citizens.

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