SoVote

Context: House Hansard - 179 - Apr/18/23

The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Apr/18/23 4:23:18 p.m.
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We have to allow for more questions. Questions and comments, the hon. member for Peace River—Westlock.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Apr/18/23 4:23:24 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we have 40-year highs in inflation and more people visiting the food bank now than at any other time in Canadian history, yet the member opposite paints a rosy picture of Canada. There is a $43-billion deficit this year in the budget as well. Inflation is out of control, yet the government continues to pour more fuel on that fire. Does the hon. member know when, if ever, the budget will be balanced?

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Ms. Jenna Sudds

Apr/18/23 4:23:59 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think it is important to recognize where we are in these economic times and recognize that budget 2023 is a responsible fiscal plan for the challenging times we are in. I think we are making smart investments in Canada's future. As I highlighted in my remarks today, the future is clean. It is clean, green technologies that are powering us into the future. That creates a future for our children and grandchildren. I am proud of the budget that has been put forward, and I hope the member opposite will support it.

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Mr. Don Davies (Vancouver Kingsway, NDP)

Apr/18/23 4:24:51 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I will keep it brief. Last week, my colleague from Vancouver East and I hosted a town hall on the environment and heard a lot of very passionate people talk about their concerns for the environment. We just saw recently that the Trans Mountain pipeline is now estimated to cost $30 billion, and it is going to expand bitumen export in this country. I wonder if my hon. colleague thinks that spending $30 billion on that pipeline is a wise use of expenditures in today's economic climate.

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Ms. Jenna Sudds

Apr/18/23 4:25:21 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I think it is important to recognize that when we look at our electricity needs and look at the investments being made in this budget, we are investing in clean, green energy and technologies. If we look to cloud computing, AI and the use and rise of technology and 5G networks as examples, the energy being consumed in the world, not even in this country, is multiplying. We need to ensure that we make smart, sustainable decisions that do not jeopardize the future of this country for our children and grandchildren.

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Mr. Ryan Turnbull (Whitby, Lib.)

Apr/18/23 4:26:18 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it gives me great pleasure to rise in the House today to speak in support of budget 2023, which is a responsible budget that supports Canadians with the rising cost of living through a grocery rebate, as we have heard about. It also makes important investments in our health care system, including $198 billion over the next 10 years in total through the Canada health transfer and bilateral agreements, and expands the dental benefit that has already helped approximately 250,000 Canadian children under 12 to ensure that many more Canadians who are uninsured can access dental care. These measures are all worthy of a speech in themselves, and yet will not be the focus of my speech today. Today I would like to focus on the fact that budget 2023 makes significant investments in securing Canada's fair share of the emerging global green economy, which is essential for our economic success. This is another major step forward in marshalling the resources needed for the massive transformation of our economy to achieve net zero by 2050. Let us not forget that this is a commitment that our government enshrined in law through the Net-Zero Emissions Accountability Act. This emerging global market is estimated by Oxford Economics, through a report that was released in January 2023 called “The Global Green Economy: Capturing the Opportunity”, at $10.3 trillion in value to the global economy by 2050. The largest opportunities identified in this report include electric vehicle manufacturing, renewable power generation, clean energy manufacturing, hydrogen, biofuels and even green finance. It is interesting, if we look at the government's chapter 3 in budget 2023, the investment tax credits and many of the other programs and strategic investments that are profiled there closely correspond with these major global opportunities in the green economy that have been identified by experts. Budget 2023 has many merits, but I would like to focus on the clean energy and green economy portion of the budget, which I feel will catapult our country forward in leading the world in the fight against climate change while ensuring prosperity for future generations. I am very proud to say that I am one of the advocates in the Liberal caucus constantly pushing for more ambition and action on climate change. I wholeheartedly endorse our government's view that the path to net zero comes with massive economic growth opportunities if we can create the enabling conditions. In short, the green economy provides a more prosperous and sustainable future for our country. This means good-paying jobs in many industries, whether in critical mineral exploration or extraction, clean hydrogen production, electricians installing new public transit infrastructure like those that I visited in the electrical workers training facility close to my riding, line workers in EV manufacturing like those at GM Canada, again close to my riding, installers of building retrofits and many more. We know that the average wage for jobs in clean-tech manufacturing is $90,000, which is well above Canada's economy-wide average of approximately $69,000. That is 30% higher wages in clean-tech manufacturing than Canada's economy-wide average, and most of these jobs do not require a university degree. Based on one of the latest reports from the IPCC, we are rapidly approaching the point of no return in terms of any hope of keeping average global warming to within 1.5°C. In fact, the report says we are on a trajectory as a planet to 3.2°C of warming. The cost of inaction, I would say, is great and, I would argue, dwarfs the cost of making the needed strategic investments now. As one of my colleagues at one time said, we either pay now or pay more later. Based on the Canadian Climate Institute's report on climate change called “Damage Control”, we can see that climate change is already costing Canadians billions, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. The Canadian economy will continue to be saddled with increasing costs as damages brought on by climate change continue to climb to $25 billion annually by 2025, which is equal to 50% of projected GDP growth. That number is already extremely concerning in itself, but when we think about how significant those costs are, how quickly they will rise and the massive drag this would create on Canada's economic growth, we must recognize the severe consequences associated with inaction. The losses in real GDP are projected to rise to over $100 billion by 2050 within a high-emission scenario, and eight times that amount by the end of the century. That is almost a trillion dollars. This climate change threatens, and I think this is the point, the future growth and stability of our economy. This is just the top-line number, which only tells a part of the story. Authors in the Climate Institute's report say that these annual drops in GDP growth might not seem like a big deal, but they accumulate, reflecting a significant drop in investment, household income, and consumption, trade and employment. In my view, we cannot afford to lose investment, household income, trade and employment, because that is what Conservatives would have us do, which is not address climate change, not take it seriously, not make the needed investments and move to an austerity model. Waiting for climate disaster means that Canadians would pay for the repair of destroyed assets rather than seeing capital investments in key industries that increase productive capacity and thereby help realize economic growth and prosperity for all Canadians. In my view, there is a strong moral imperative to act on climate change, but more forcefully perhaps is the economic imperative to act when taking the opportunity cost into account. Avoiding the future costs of losses and damages to our economy and society means we could invest that capital in our future economy now, and invest in the innovation that would drive future growth. Let us not forget that the damage caused by climate change hits the household and hits it hard. Climate change makes life more expensive, and the solutions make life more affordable. Climate change can be felt at the household level by lowering income and increasing expenses. If we want to alleviate the cost of living pressures that Canadians are under, we must fight climate change. Our government knows that the economics of climate change necessitate action and strategic investments. The cost of climate change continues to rise, but every dollar invested in adaptation and mitigation returns a significant amount to the Canadian economy in both direct and indirect impacts. For every dollar invested, the Canadian Climate Institute estimates that $13 to $15 of total benefit is accrued. For every dollar invested, $15 is coming back to the Canadian economy. We are decreasing the costs that the economy would be saddled with in the future as well. Again, when we consider the costs and project them out into the future, we realize how important it is to act and make those investments now. Budget 2023 really builds on a really strong foundation of significant investments. I could name a few, the net-zero accelerator fund, the low-carbon economy fund, Canada's critical minerals strategy, the zero-emission vehicle purchase incentives and charging infrastructure, the Canada Infrastructure Bank, and the list goes on and on. There is over $112.2 billion, by my calculation, of climate-related investments that would help us get to net zero. That is only part of the picture. In fact, the Climate Institute estimates Canada would need to make between $125 billion and $140 billion investment per year in order to get to net zero. Obviously, the government cannot make all of those investments itself, but will need to leverage the power of the market. I will quote the Oxford Economics report that I mentioned earlier. They look at what is called the net-zero transformation scenario and say: In addition to innovation, this Net Zero Transformation scenario assumes that governments introduce policies that encourage private sector investment. Measures such as R&D tax credits, co-financing, and risk guarantees all have the potential to spur faster private sector investment and generate R&D spillovers. These can be thought of as “carrots” to incentivise private investment, in addition to the “stick” of carbon pricing. This highlights why this budget is so important. It is because the significant investment, tax credits and the strategic financing that is outlined in the key priorities are really going to drive private investment into the key areas of our economy to fight climate change.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Apr/18/23 4:36:26 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I would just note that we are living in times of 40-year-high inflation with more Canadians visiting food banks than at any time in Canadian history, and yet the Government of Canada continues to tout that life has never been better in Canada. There is a $43-billion deficit in this budget and yet back in 2015 the Liberals said they would balance the budget in 2019. I just wonder if the hon. member has any comments about the $43-billion deficit and how this is contributing to inflation.

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Mr. Ryan Turnbull

Apr/18/23 4:37:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, as we know, inflation is a global issue that everyone can acknowledge is a product of supply-chain disruptions left over from COVID-19 and the war that Russia has waged on Ukraine. There are many factors associated with global inflation, but what we have to acknowledge is that fighting climate change is a part of the solution to combatting inflationary pressures in our economy. That is exactly why our government is saying that we cannot really fight inflation without fighting climate change.

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Mr. Denis Trudel (Longueuil—Saint-Hubert, BQ)

Apr/18/23 4:37:50 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague is pleased to be pleased, as they say. He talked a lot about climate change, saying that Canada is good, that it is strong and that everything is fine. I just want to point out to my colleague that our net emissions went up again this year. We are still one of the worst countries in the world in that respect. There are many measures in the budget. Oil companies are getting tax credits to green their record, for greenwashing, as my colleague mentioned earlier. Last year, in 2022, Exxon Mobil made $56 billion in profits; Shell made $40 billion; Total made $36 billion; Chevron made $36 billion; and BP made $27 billion. How can my colleague justify giving those companies even one cent?

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Mr. Ryan Turnbull

Apr/18/23 4:38:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, obviously we disagree. I am very proud of the action that our government is taking on climate change, including the massive investments that we have made and commitments that we have enshrined into law. It is clear to me that emissions reductions are already being had in Canadian society across many industries and are only going to deepen as we implement the many different measures that are in budget 2023. I do not see anything other than a legitimate, authentic commitment to reduce emissions and adapt to the changing climate and to get to the root causes of climate change.

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Mr. Taylor Bachrach (Skeena—Bulkley Valley, NDP)

Apr/18/23 4:39:28 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-12

Madam Speaker, I thank the member for Whitby for his focus on climate change, which is an issue I would hope that all of us take very seriously. Bill C-12 set an emissions objective for 2026 and that objective is 20% below 2005 levels. The recent emissions inventory that just came out for 2021 had Canada's emissions at 8.4% below 2005 levels, so we have another 11.6% to go in only five years and yet what we saw in 2021 was that emissions were higher by 1.8% over 2020 levels. Therefore, if emissions are going up and we are trying to hit a target that needs them to go down, how do Liberals make that work?

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Mr. Ryan Turnbull

Apr/18/23 4:40:22 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, the question is a good one. Obviously, the intentions are to reduce emissions across our entire economy. Budget 2023 builds on many other measures that are bearing or starting to bear their fruits. What we are talking about is a massive transformation of the economy and that is going to take time. To realize the emission reductions it takes time. Obviously, the adoption of electric vehicles is going up. We are seeing major deals with the manufacturing of clean technology in Canada. There are many aspects of this transition; it is going to take time to realize those benefits, but I am sure that they are coming. I am sure the things that we are doing are grounded in principles that will bring about the outcomes that we are all looking for.

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Apr/18/23 4:41:12 p.m.
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Order. It is my duty pursuant to Standing Order 38 to inform the House that the questions to be raised tonight at the time of adjournment are as follows: the hon. member for Sherwood Park—Fort Saskatchewan, Public Services and Procurement; the hon. member for Leeds—Grenville—Thousand Islands and Rideau Lakes, Taxation; the hon. member for Lanark—Frontenac—Kingston, Immigration, Refugees and Citizenship.

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus (Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, CPC)

Apr/18/23 4:41:45 p.m.
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Re: Bill C-5

Madam Speaker, I am pleased to rise in the House today to speak to the reckless budget brought down by the Liberals and supported unreservedly and unsurprisingly by the NDP. In fact, the budget is truly a product of the office of the Leader of the NDP. I think it is fair to say that people underestimate him. Canadians now know that he is the one truly responsible for the government's budgetary decisions. We might even call him the right hon. member for Burnaby South. It has to be a bit embarrassing for the Liberal members to sit in the House day after day and see their party being completely controlled by the NDP leader. They should not be surprised because since 2015, the Prime Minister and his ministers have demonstrated through their behaviour that their level of incompetence should have served as a warning. For example, in 2013, the Prime Minister told anyone who would listen that he was not worried about budgets because, as he explained, budgets balance themselves. We know how that turned out. After such a comment, we might have expected that many Liberal candidates would be reluctant to run under his leadership. No, on the contrary, they all took the same stance and eagerly repeated whatever he said. That was certainly not the first time that the Prime Minister made odd and dangerous comments, but, for Canadians, that was certainly the most memorable one. Some believed that although the Prime Minister was incompetent and did not have the experience required to steer the ship, at least he was surrounded by ministers and wise advisers who could tell him how to be sensible and would control his impulses. This hope quickly evaporated when his Minister of Finance increased our country's national debt to unprecedented levels. Yes, the Minister of Finance defended the federal government's record deficit of more than $381 billion arguing it was affordable, given the low interest rates. I would like to say more about that, but I want to speak about what would be important to address in a budget, and that is my Bill C-325, which I recently introduced. Bill C-325 would strengthen the conditional release system by creating a new offence for the breach of conditions, requiring parole officers to report breaches of conditions and restoring the former version of section 742.1 of the Criminal Code, which was repealed in 2022 by the Prime Minister's Bill C‑5. The government's Bill C-5, which has passed, allows criminals convicted of aggravated sexual assault, for example, to serve their sentences in the community. I hope that this monumental error will be corrected, and that the Bloc Québécois and NDP members will support my bill. These violent criminals should not be serving their sentences at home watching Netflix. They should be behind bars. The Bloc Québécois did support Bill C-5. They voted in favour of it, but after seeing what happened next, they realized that there were problems. Consider the case of Jonathan Gravel, a 42-year-old man who managed to avoid prison after committing a violent sexual assault. The Bloc Québécois now realizes that this needs to be reversed, because it just does not work. Even a Crown prosecutor in Quebec, Alexis Dinelle, slammed the government for reopening the door to sentences served in the community for this type of crime. He said, and I quote, “Right now, [the Prime Minister] and [the Minister of Justice] probably have some explaining to do to victims of sexual assault. I cannot stay silent in the face of this regressive situation”. What this federal law does is give men who have been convicted of aggravated sexual assault the possibility of serving their sentences at home. For example, according to La Presse, Sobhi Akra wants to be able to serve his sentence from home after pleading guilty to sexually assaulting eight women. That is outrageous. My bill also proposes to create an offence for breach of conditions of conditional release by criminals who have been convicted of crimes such as sexual assault, murder or assaulting children, for example, and who fail to meet their parole conditions when they are on parole. Right now, it is not an offence for such criminals to violate the conditions of their parole. For example, I am sure everyone remembers Eustachio Gallese, who murdered Marylène Levesque three years ago. One of his parole conditions involved being treated by a psychologist. However, he was not reincarcerated when the Parole Board learned that he was seeing prostitutes and violating the conditions of his parole. His release was not revoked and nowhere in his record does it indicate that he was failing to meet his parole conditions. With my bill, people like Eustachio Gallese, who are out on parole, will no longer be able to make a mockery of our justice system and will have to take the conditions of their parole seriously. It will help save the lives of people like Marylène Levesque. As we know, the main role of parliamentarians is to ensure the highest level of public safety for Canadians. We must correct the monumental error in the law stemming from Bill C‑5 and strengthen management of the parole system. Let us get back to the budget. Canada's finances and public funds are not toys for the Prime Minister and his rich friends to play with. Canadians have worked too hard and sacrificed too much to allow these people to destroy the quality of life of our future generations. We know that the Minister of Finance studied at Harvard. We also know that this university does not teach these kinds of financial strategies to its students. Like the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance clearly missed a lot of classes at university. When the budget was tabled by the government, we heard different reactions. One came from Mario Dumont, a well-known commentator and former Quebec politician who hosts several shows in Quebec, on TVA. This was his initial reaction upon seeing the budget: What is most shocking is that, during those months when the Canadian public service was growing by leaps and bounds, service delivery was the least efficient it had ever been. Need I remind anyone of the passport crisis? ...When you read the Parliamentary Budget Officer's report and compare it to what is happening on the ground, one conclusion is obvious. Canada is bloody badly managed. A private company that is so poorly managed would be sent to the slaughterhouse. From what we can see, the Prime Minister and the Minister of Finance have no idea what sound financial practices are, and, with the support of the NDP leader, they are dragging this country into financial chaos. While the Prime Minister is destroying the country's finances, Liberal members on the other side of the House are sitting back and watching our children's future slip away. That is the Liberal legacy under this Prime Minister: a total failure to manage our country's finances that puts Canada's future in a very precarious position. Our legacy will be to clean up this mess and restore sound fiscal policies for the good of our citizens, because when we talk about the future, we are talking about our children and grandchildren. We may tell ourselves that everything is fine right now, but when we look at the interest on the current debt, when we do the projections and calculations, we can see that we are talking about $21 billion in additional interest payments. It is not hard to see that this will become unsustainable over the next few years and the funds available for government operations will be subject to that interest. That means there will be less money and we cannot just keep borrowing, which will only make things worse. That is why we on this side of the House will always seek to work in a reasonable way in order to maximize the public purse and strike a balance to ensure we do not end up in a situation where our grandchildren will pay the price later on.

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Ms. Rachel Bendayan (Parliamentary Secretary to the Minister of Tourism and Associate Minister of Finance, Lib.)

Apr/18/23 4:50:23 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, my colleague talked about a lot of things, including the importance of addressing the violence playing out on our streets, and yet the Conservatives continue to oppose all the gun control measures we are proposing. However, let us talk about our budget. My colleague spent a lot of time talking down the Canadian economy, when we know that it is much more resilient than that of our peers. We brought Rio Tinto to Sorel and Moderna to Laval. We also brought 5,000 new jobs to Bécancourt, and this is just in Quebec. When my colleague talks about the importance of reducing government spending, is he talking about the $2 billion that is being invested in health care for Canadians? Since the Conservative leader has confirmed—

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The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes)

Apr/18/23 4:51:27 p.m.
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I must give the member an opportunity to respond and leave time for other members who would like to ask questions. The hon. member for Charlesbourg—Haute‑Saint‑Charles.

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Apr/18/23 4:51:35 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, do I have the same amount of time to answer my colleague's question as she took to ask it? The Assistant Deputy Speaker (Mrs. Carol Hughes): You have one minute to respond. M. Pierre Paul‑Hus: Madam Speaker, a government has to make choices. It must create a list of priorities and decide what to do. Since 2015, the Liberal government has chosen to constantly increase spending without having any controls. That is the problem. Is everything a priority? Of course. If my children want ice cream every day, do I give it to them every day? No. Everyone has to learn about control sometime. The $21 billion handed over to consulting firms is one example of something that needs to be controlled. This is an example of potential savings, because the public service has grown by 30% at the same time. How can we have 30% more public servants, whom we obviously pay, while at the same time paying $21 billion to contractors? That does not work.

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Mr. Luc Desilets (Rivière-des-Mille-Îles, BQ)

Apr/18/23 4:52:41 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, we know the Conservatives' position in terms of the budget, the cuts they would make if they were in power, major budgetary restrictions and balancing the budget. This evening, 150,000 federal public servants will quite likely go on strike. I would like to ask my colleague from Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles the following. If he were the minister in such a situation, would he accept the federal public servants' salary conditions to avoid a strike?

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Mr. Pierre Paul-Hus

Apr/18/23 4:53:15 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, it is the government's responsibility to manage its public service properly. There is a strike mandate right now because this government did not do its job of managing the public service properly. It hired 30% more public servants, it awards external contracts, and in the meantime, working conditions are being mismanaged. I cannot necessarily respond directly to my colleague's question because I do not have all the information on the demands. The fact remains that good public management means knowing how to work with the resources on hand, hiring the necessary number of people to complete tasks on budget, and ensuring that employees are paid properly. However, if the government hires people, spends money elsewhere and cannot afford to pay them more, then there is a problem.

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Mr. Arnold Viersen (Peace River—Westlock, CPC)

Apr/18/23 4:54:07 p.m.
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Madam Speaker, I just want to ask my hon. colleague what his thoughts are on the fact that the Liberal government is continuing to deficit-spend, even though it promised, way back in 2015, that it would run only four modest deficits of $10 billion, which it has never even come close to. Budget 2023 is $43 billion. I am wondering what my colleague has to say about that.

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