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Mr. Sébastien Lemire (Abitibi—Témiscamingue, BQ)

Feb/7/23 12:49:10 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I thank my colleague from Kings—Hants for raising constructive points on a day of debate where it still feels like all we do is discuss negative things. In the context of climate change, I think that the carbon tax is important, but we also need other measures. On Parliament Hill, there are people who are working in the area of energy efficiency to bring technologies to the table. This includes smart buildings, infrastructure, smart grids and industry 4.0 for a net‑zero future. I would like my colleague to talk about constructive proposals. Obviously, the climate change issue will have to be addressed on multiple fronts, including energy efficiency.

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Mr. Kody Blois

Feb/7/23 12:50:01 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I completely agree. There is not one single silver bullet solution to tackle this challenge around emissions and fighting climate change. It takes a variety of different programs. We happen to be talking about carbon price, which is one of the key underlying principles. I agree with the member on energy efficiency. As a member of Parliament, as I have said in this House, what I worry about is how we are going to double electricity generation in Canada over the next 15 to 20 years. As we talk about making a transition to electric vehicles, as we talk about being able to decarbonize, that actually requires more energy and more electricity. How are we going to do that? Part of that is going to be accomplished through energy efficiency, but we also need to make sure we are focusing on the question of generation. Some of it has to be through hydro. I am absolutely pro-nuclear. I think that is part of the solution, in terms of a zero-emission technology that we readily have, and Canada is already seen as a global leader. There is energy efficiency, but how we are going to double that generation is one of the most important topics that every parliamentarian should be thinking about right now.

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Mr. Lloyd Longfield (Guelph, Lib.)

Feb/7/23 12:51:09 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the hon. member for Kings—Hants is also the chair of the agriculture committee. He mentioned there were some benefits around agriculture that he did not address in his speech. Maybe he could comment on that. In terms of fertilizer use, one of the areas we are focusing on is a more efficient use of fertilizer with the four Rs and reducing emissions from fertilizer. Maybe the member has other examples of what we are working on.

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Mr. Kody Blois

Feb/7/23 12:51:39 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, although the hon. member is in more of an urban area, agriculture is so prevalent in his riding, as it is in mine, in Kings—Hants. A couple of the programs I never had the chance to talk about are the on-farm climate action program and the agricultural clean technology program. These are government initiatives that are helping to invest in the agriculture community. It is actually driving their competitiveness and reducing emissions at the same time. It goes back to that theory of suggesting, maybe from the opposition benches, that those two things are mutually exclusive. I am of the view that we can walk the line between making sure that agriculture businesses and farms are competitive and also reducing emissions. We need to be there to work to incentivize that technology and in some cases help make that investment possible.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux (Parliamentary Secretary to the Leader of the Government in the House of Commons, Lib.)

Feb/7/23 12:52:30 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, over the last number of years, we have seen a government that has brought forward legislative and budgetary measures to ensure that we have a healthier middle class, that we continue to create jobs and that we have an economy that works for all of us, no matter what region of the country we are talking about. When it comes to issues, I go to the residents of Winnipeg North and listen to what they have to say. We hear a lot about inflation, so I am glad the motion before us deals, at least in part, with inflation. We also hear a lot of concern with regard to the environment and, once again, the second part of this motion deals with the environment. I would like to spend the next nine or 10 minutes talking about both of those issues. I would like to demonstrate the contrast between the Conservative Party of Canada and what the Government of Canada has been doing. On the issue of inflation, we have to take into account what is happening around the world. Canada's inflation rate, compared to that of other countries, whether it is the United States, Germany, all European countries or the United Kingdom, is lower. However, we understand that we cannot just sit back and look at what is happening around the world and say that we do not need to do anything because our inflation rate is lower. Rather, we have come up with a number of programs and thoughts to help Canadians through inflation as much as possible. I will give a few examples that are very tangible. We eliminated the interest on student loans. We doubled the goods and services tax credit for the short term, for six months. We put forward the dental program, which would help children under the age of 12. We brought in rental support and the Canada workers benefit. These are the types of programs that we are bringing in to support Canadians on inflation. How does that contrast with the leadership of the Conservative Party of Canada? I have now heard the second real, tangible idea that the Conservatives are talking about. They want to get rid of the price on pollution. They have made that very clear. That is the second idea. What was the first idea? It should come as no surprise that it was the cryptocurrency flash. We will remember that the leader of the Conservative Party, not that long ago, said the way to fight inflation is to invest in cryptocurrency. That was the message. That was one of the first policy stands with regard to fighting inflation. I have said before in the House that I cannot imagine those who would have followed that stupid idea. They would have lost life savings if they had invested their savings in it. That was the first economic inflation-fighting policy I heard from the Conservative Party. We have heard the Conservatives talk about the “triple, triple, triple”. I think they should pay some sort of dividend to Tim Hortons for the double-double. At the end of the day, it is all about misinformation. Their second policy on fighting inflation is to spread false information. In fact, the leader of the Conservative Party proclaimed it today, saying they are going to get rid of carbon pricing or the price on pollution or the carbon tax. It was not that long ago that 338 Conservative candidates, including the member who made the statement that he is going to get rid of it, campaigned at the doors and said in their policy platform that they believed in a price on pollution. How things have flipped-flopped once again. The Conservative Party, with its spreading of misinformation, is actually going to pay for advertising, which I think kicked in today, coincidental with this particular motion. What Conservatives are telling Canadians is that they are going to save them money by cutting the tax, cutting the price on pollution. Some hon. members: Oh, oh! Mr. Kevin Lamoureux: Mr. Speaker, I heard one member say “woo-hoo” and another say “hear, hear”. Well, I can tell members that this is the misinformation that the Conservatives are spreading. In Winnipeg North, as in most other constituencies, the PBO, the independent Parliamentary Budget Officer, made it very clear that eight out of 10 households are going to get a net benefit. In Manitoba, a household of four would get over $800 a year in quarterly payments. If we get rid of the price on pollution, that rebate is gone too, and for 80% of my constituents, that rebate is more than they are actually paying. However, the Conservatives are going to try to mislead not only the residents of Winnipeg North but all the provinces where the price on pollution is put in as a backstop to protect our environment. They are going to try to give the impression that cancelling the price on pollution is going to put more money in their pockets. That is balderdash. That is just not true, and they know it. It is one thing to stand in the House and spread misinformation and even go into communities and possibly town halls that they are having, but now the Conservatives are going to be paying for advertising. They have actually bought advertising spots to spread false facts. This will depress a lot of people. I think it is 150 days of the current leadership of the Conservative Party, and it took one of the former leaders, the current Conservative House leader, over 400 days to come up with a plan on the environment. His plan incorporated a price on pollution, and now he is the House leader. The leader who followed him actually made the commitment, which every one of them campaigned on, that there would be a price on pollution. How many more days is it going to take for the Conservative Party to be more transparent and honest with Canadians as to what their plan is with regard to the environment? Is their only line or bumper sticker going to be “We're going to cut and get rid of the price on pollution” as other jurisdictions around the world are incorporating what Canada has put into place? Eighty per cent of Canadians are actually benefiting from it, and we are dealing with the environment at the same time. There is a huge vacuum there that needs to be filled. We are waiting, and we will continue to wait, I suspect. How long is it going to be before the Conservatives start telling the truth as to what they are going to be doing in terms of their environmental plan? All we know is that they misled Canadians in the last federal election, all 338 of them. We are going to be reminding Canadians that at one point the Conservative Party, under different leaderships, supported the price on pollution. At the end of the day, they have flipped-flopped, which is to the disadvantage of our environment, and it is going to hurt Canadians.

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Mr. Clifford Small (Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, CPC)

Feb/7/23 1:02:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I heard my hon. colleague start his speech talking about Bitcoin. I would like to remind him that Bitcoin has increased in value by 37% in the last month. He is such a stalwart member of the carbon tax cult, but if he looked deep inside himself and reflected, he would need to question some of his beliefs. The Governor of the Bank of Canada says carbon tax is intrinsically inflationary. The PBO says that most Canadians will pay more in carbon tax than they will receive. However, Liberals constantly refute that. Every time we question them about carbon tax, they always come back and say that the carbon tax is going to stop the hurricanes that start near Africa from moving up the Atlantic coast into Atlantic Canada. He must know Atlantic Canadians are not that stupid. They all know the carbon tax cannot stop hurricanes. Maybe you could explain this wonderful technology, the dome that is going to protect Atlantic Canada from hurricanes.

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The Deputy Speaker

Feb/7/23 1:03:55 p.m.
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I want to remind folks to run their questions through the Chair and not to address the members directly. The hon. parliamentary secretary has the floor.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Feb/7/23 1:04:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the PBO, the organization the member just made reference to, also made it very clear that eight out of 10 Canadian households will have a net gain. They get more money in their pockets as a result of the price on pollution. One cannot change that fact, even if one advertises otherwise. What amazed me is that he brought up Bitcoin. He said that it has gone up in the last month by, I think, 30 percentage points. Do we have the Conservative Party, once again, encouraging people to invest in cryptocurrency? That seems to me what the member is suggesting. Thousands of people lost their life savings because of cryptocurrenccy, and they are jumping back on to that bandwagon. How ludicrous is that? Is that the type of policy advice the Conservative Party members are coming up with? Today it is to get rid of the price on pollution, because they do not give a darn about our environment, they do not care about the rebates Canadians are receiving, especially at a time of inflation, and by the way, buy more cryptocurrency. Wow.

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Ms. Monique Pauzé (Repentigny, BQ)

Feb/7/23 1:05:26 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will try to tone things down, but still get straight to the point. The parliamentary secretary said that the carbon tax is not the only thing that can lower greenhouse gas emissions. We completely agree, except the data on Canada is not very good right now. As far as renewable energy is concerned, Canada ranks 54th out of 61 countries. There is work to do on that front. As for greenhouse gas emissions, Canada ranks 56th out of 61 countries. For fossil fuel subsidies, we rank second out of all the G20 countries. I agree with my colleague that there is a great deal of work to be done. I would like him to talk about the other ways we can lower greenhouse gas emissions.

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Mr. Kevin Lamoureux

Feb/7/23 1:06:19 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, there is no doubt what is important is that the Government of Canada needs to take initiatives. We have seen many of those initiatives in budgetary and legislative measures, and I make reference to the net-zero legislation as an example. However, it also needs to work along with other provinces, as it did with the Province of British Columbia, where it worked with the NDP government and came up with the LNG project. There is no doubt that, for many environmentalists, it puts a bit more pressure on the government at a different end. In good part, it is working with the different jurisdictions and doing the best it can to try to decrease emissions. At times, there are some developments that do need to advance, but it needs to be done in an environment that is sound and by working with indigenous communities and the different provinces as much as we can.

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman (Thornhill, CPC)

Feb/7/23 1:07:35 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the Liberals in the debate, all day long, keep saying that Canadians have never had it so good. They seem exacerbated as, again, we fight against their punishing carbon tax. We are going to keep fighting against the carbon tax so that Canadians can keep their heat on, can drive to work and can afford nutritious food. We will never apologize for that. We have heard today some version of what they call an environmental plan, but make no mistake. The Liberals gave us an environmental plan, or they gave us a tax plan that was disguised as an environmental plan, and it was directly cited for the higher prices. In fact, their tax is working so well that we have already seen it raised three times. We are still no closer to meeting any sort of environmental goal. In fact, Canada is the only G7 country, if we want to play the facts game, that has raised fuel taxes during a period of record-high inflation. That should tell us everything we need to know about where we are in this. We are in the depths of winter and home heating costs are, in some cases, up 100%. Heating one's home in Canada is not a luxury. I do not know why we have to say it, but it is a necessity in this country. All one has to do is go outside for 30 minutes. There is no denying that the government and its NDP coalition partners who vote with it every single time, although they get up in the House and scream at the government that nothing is going right and then continue to support it, are making prices higher for families. They make this necessity more expensive with a plan to triple the tax, no matter what they say outside of this place. No matter what motion they bring forward, they are the ones who support the government in making things more expensive for every single Canadian. It is a plan that disproportionately punishes people in rural areas who have no choice but to rely on heating oil or other heat sources made more expensive by the carbon tax. It is a plan that disproportionately punishes families, including parents who are struggling to feed their kids, who are struggling to get to work and who are struggling to drive their kids to activities and school. I know they do not like to hear it, and they certainly do not want to talk about it. We would be here for an eternity if they had to admit it. However, for more Canadians, things have never been so bad, and a little humility and an admission of responsibility would go a long way for the people across the aisle. The Liberals laugh, and they say that the stories that we tell in the House are not real. They must not speak to the same people we speak to. They must not listen to the same people we listen to. They must not go to the places we go. If they did, they would know that these stories are very real. They are painfully real for millions of Canadians, and they are growing in number. The most out-of-touch thing that anybody can do, while serving others in this place, is to bury their heads in the sand and pretend that everything is fine, because it is not. It is far from it. Here in Canada, the Liberals have given us the highest inflation in 40 years, some of the highest interest rates in the G7, the highest in a generation, and the highest home prices ever. Add a carbon tax on top of that. We will continue to speak against that tax in the House until we have the opportunity, as a government, to remove it. If the government was in touch at all with the economic reality, it would know that one cannot tax one's way to prosperity. It does not work. It never has. With respect to our farmers, the hon. member for Foothills speaks with farmers, and I will be splitting my time with him. On everything that we eat, on everything that we buy and on everything that we use, the Liberals have imposed a tax. It started at $30 a tonne, then it went to $40 a tonne and now it is at $50 a tonne. They promised Canadians, before the last election, that it would never go up. Never is a really long time, but it did. We should have known better. We should have known that $30 was going to be $40, then it was going to be $50 and now it is $170. That might not mean a lot in terms of tonnage, but it makes everything that we buy, that we eat, that we use and where we go more expensive. It has an effect throughout the economy. They will tell us that Canadians get back more than they pay. The Parliamentary Budget Officer said the opposite. Tripling the price, without even making a dent in emissions, and presenting it as if they are returning that money to Canadians is the only misinformation that we have heard in the House today. Why, after all of this evidence, are they still saying that over and over again? All they have to do is open the report from the Parliamentary Budget Officer that the Liberals appointed. There are 20% of Canadians skipping meals just to make ends meet, because the cost of groceries has gone up 11%. They have not gone up because I have said they have gone up, but they have actually gone up. People are not angry because I said that they are angry. They are angry because they are hungry and the price of groceries has gone up 11%. It is a direct result of the carbon tax, because it costs more to grow, more to harvest, more to transport and more to buy. The Liberals blame someone else, something else or somewhere else for that failure, but it is their fault. It is squarely their fault and they could show some humility in this House and take responsibility for it. It would go a long way. We have the lowest projected GDP per capita growth of any advanced economy. This is not just in the G7, but of any advanced economy. The time to add taxes to the mix is not right now. It is actually never, when it comes to this tax that does not work. Two years ago, the Leader of the Opposition, when he sat here as the member for Carleton, warned that if a government had unchecked and unrestrained out-of-control spending, it would lead to higher inflation and higher interest rates. The cost of government would drive up the cost of living, and that is exactly what we have seen happen. The Liberals told us the only way to save ourselves on the environmental front is a carbon tax, but, again, that does not match reality. It turns out, once again, that our trust was misplaced in a Liberal government that said it would not raise the carbon tax. It has now raised the carbon tax, and it is about to triple it. All one needs to do to verify the claim is just look around. Do we not have the highest inflation in 40 years? Do we not have the highest interest rates in a generation? Is home ownership not out of reach for Canadians? Are people not paying more for the cost of energy to heat their homes, to drive their cars and to buy their food? We know the answer, and it seems the Liberals know it too. We bring this up every single day in the House. We quote testimony from experts and testimony from the Parliamentary Budget Officer, whom the Liberals appointed. We bring stories of the people who are hurting in this country, and the Liberals laugh it off or call it fake. The response from the government is another program, another inflationary spending measure, a plan to triple the carbon tax, more platitudes and empty words and a few Instagram posts. Then they pat themselves on the back and clap for each other. The Liberals can talk about the billions of dollars they have spent, and they can talk about it all they want, but that comes from the taxpayer. Never has so much money been spent to bring so few results to so few people in this country. That is a fact. More of the same ideas that got us here in the first place are just not good enough. We have a different approach. Instead of giving more power to the government, instead of the central planning that we see from them, let us give more power to Canadians and let them spend more of their own money. Let us put that money back into their pockets and help them live with dignity and help them survive. Let us help them pay to heat their homes, to drive their cars and to buy nutritious food for their families. Instead of raising taxes, leave workers with more money in their pockets, because they know how to spend their wages. There is only one taxpayer in this country, and the Liberals ought to recognize that. The Liberals ought to show some humility, take some responsibility for the inflation crisis they have caused and not add yet another tax. Instead of throwing more money at the problem, let us invest in solutions that work. Let us reduce greenhouse gases. Let us get housing built. Let us build more transit. In short, instead of telling Canadians that everything is fine and that they have never had it so good, let us have the government show some humility and take responsibility for the crisis that they have created.

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Mr. Lloyd Longfield (Guelph, Lib.)

Feb/7/23 1:17:06 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the hon. member got my attention when she said that Canada has the worst GDP growth in developed countries. I had to quickly look up what the forecasts are for 2023. Canada is 1.5%, United States is 1.4%, France is 0.7%, Germany is 0.1% and England is -0.6%. It seems to me she has the facts backward. Can the member correct that for the record?

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Feb/7/23 1:17:41 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I will actually correct the member. If he wants to open his own budget, on page 25 is the GDP growth per capita. We are the lowest in projected growth over the next 30 years, of not only the G7, but also every advanced economy. It is in the member's own budget, and he ought to read it.

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Ms. Nathalie Sinclair-Desgagné (Terrebonne, BQ)

Feb/7/23 1:18:05 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I heard my colleague talk a lot about humility, particularly near the end of her speech. If she recognizes that climate change is real and that we failed to take action for years, whether under the Conservative government or during the past eight years under the Liberal government, then is it not true that the first lesson in humility is admitting one's mistakes and trying to make amends?

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Feb/7/23 1:18:37 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I would agree with the member if this were actually an environment plan, but it is a tax plan. It has not reduced any emissions. It has not hit any targets, which the government itself has ever set. Therefore, if we want to talk about an environmental plan, I am happy to do that with the member, but a carbon tax is not it.

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Ms. Bonita Zarrillo (Port Moody—Coquitlam, NDP)

Feb/7/23 1:19:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I appreciate the speech from the member today. I want to talk about some of the items that are top of the list of budget expenses in my riding of Port Moody—Coquitlam: housing and child care. I will talk specifically about housing. Today, we are having a conversation about carbon tax, but really, relief on any carbon tax would affect very few people. However, relief on affordable housing is something huge. I wonder if the member would not mind sharing some of the solutions the Conservatives have brought to the table to fight the crisis of a lack of affordable housing, because we desperately need more affordable housing in this country.

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Feb/7/23 1:19:43 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, the member opposite raises a very important issue, which frankly, has a lot to do with the economic crisis we are in. My hon. colleague should recognize that there are still 30-year-olds living in their parents' basements. We have a supply-side solution, and we have a plan to incentivize those who build housing to build more housing, which is something the government has not done.

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Mr. Blaine Calkins (Red Deer—Lacombe, CPC)

Feb/7/23 1:20:18 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I received a call from a constituent this week, a woman in her mid-40s whose gas bill was over $300 for the first time ever. She lives alone in her house. She says that, if her power bill is equivalent, she will not be able to afford her bills for the first time ever. She has never had a better paying job in her life, and her final thought to me was that she would have been better off staying in a relationship with her abusive husband because at least he paid the bills. This is because she cannot afford to live on her own anymore. I wonder if my colleague has any thoughts about how the carbon tax disproportionately affects women and the people who are vulnerable in our society.

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Ms. Melissa Lantsman

Feb/7/23 1:21:04 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, like my hon. colleague, members hear stories of this from our own ridings when we go home. This affects, particularly and disproportionately, those in vulnerable or, frankly, tragic situations, as the member has brought up, as well as those in rural communities. It affects the middle class. I have also asked constituents in my riding to send over their energy bills because I could not believe what I was seeing. They use less, yet they pay more, and we can fix a part of that today by voting for this motion.

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Mr. John Barlow (Foothills, CPC)

Feb/7/23 1:21:49 p.m.
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Mr. Speaker, I am proud to rise to speak to our opposition motion today because the carbon tax is asking all Canadians to pay more. It is asking seniors to pay more, young people to pay more, small business owners to pay more and certainly farmers to pay more, and I can say that farmers have paid more. In fact, according to Statistics Canada, the 2022 crop year was the most expensive in Canadian history. On-farm expenses were more than $11 billion, 12% higher than the previous year, which is the highest increase in history in Canadian farming. According to the Agricultural Producers Association of Saskatchewan, or APAS, many of its members saw their input costs go up seven times. Much of that can be attributed to the Liberal-NDP carbon tax coalition and their carbon tax. Mary Robinson, the chair of the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, and a potato farmer from P.E.I., was at the agriculture committee yesterday and said that this year's crop year could be even more expensive than what we saw previously. Farm families cannot afford this. This jeopardizes their ability to remain economically viable. Farmers cannot afford fertilizer, fuel or feed, and they cannot afford to put crops in the ground. As a result of that, we are seeing many of those on family farms throw up their hands and walk away. Farmers just simply cannot be sustainable when they are selling at a loss. We are no longer competitive on the global market. These should be red flags and alarm bells for the current Liberal government, and they should be forcing it to change course. In fact, it is not changing course, but tripling down on its failed carbon tax policy. It is going to be tripling that carbon tax when Canadians cannot afford to put food on the table. My colleague earlier said that the Liberals will argue that the carbon tax is an environmental plan to ensure that farmers are environmentally sustainable. Ironically, they have not hit a single emissions target they have set, proving that the carbon tax is a fallacy. More importantly, farmers cannot remain environmentally sustainable if they are not economically sustainable. They will simply cease to exist. According to the records we have seen, farmers are having a difficult time remaining sustainable. Unlike most other industries in Canada, Canadian farmers in agriculture pay the carbon tax over and over again. They pay it when they buy fertilizer, buy feed, haul cattle or move grain. They pay the carbon tax from the rail companies, the trucking companies and the gas companies, over and over again. What makes the carbon tax attack on Canadian farmers the most frustrating is that they are being punished instead of applauded for the work they do. Canadian agriculture has reduced its carbon footprint and emissions by 50% over the last two decades. At the same time, they have increased their yields by 60%. What other industry on Planet Earth can make such a claim? Farmers have done this while, at the same time, reducing their inputs, improving soil health, reducing water input use and becoming much more efficient. Do members know why they have done this? They have not done it because they were punished with carbon taxes or because of government regulations and interference. They have done it because it is the right thing to do. They have done this on their own, by embracing technology and new innovation, and by embracing new practices such as 4R nutrient stewardship, zero till and precision agriculture. Again, they have done these things on their own because it is the right thing to do. It has improved their efficiency and production, but it was the right thing to do to protect the water, their soil and their animals. Instead of being applauded for that, the Liberal government is punishing them. It is taxing them to produce food in the most sustainable way anywhere in the world. Not only is this punishing Canadian farmers, it is also punishing every single Canadian, because the carbon tax trickles through the supply chain. We are seeing it from the farm gate to grocery store shelves, where tens of thousands of Canadians are struggling to be able to put food on the table, and the impact is very real. We see the cost of fruit and vegetables is up 13%. Bread and potatoes are up 15%, and pasta is up 30%. These are the essentials that Canadian families rely on every single day, but they are unable to afford those fundamental parts of their grocery bills because of a Liberal carbon tax that is only going to go higher and higher. Again, the Liberals will argue that there is nothing to worry about here and that most Canadian families get more back than what they paid into the carbon tax. We need to end this revenue-neutral carbon tax myth right here, because we know, from the Parliamentary Budget Officer, that it is factually not true. In fact, we had the Grain Farmers of Ontario appear at the agriculture committee and say they are getting about 13% to 15% back of what they spend on the carbon tax. That is a long way from revenue-neutral. I fact, the CFIB just ratified those numbers by saying that the average farmer, right now, is spending about $14,000 a year on the carbon tax. When it is increased on April 1, they will be paying $45,000 a year on the carbon tax. Interestingly, when the Grain Farmers of Ontario and the CFIB came out with these numbers, which show that the carbon tax is clearly punishing Canadian farmers and rural Canadians, no one in the Liberal government disputed those numbers. No one came out to say it was revenue-neutral and that this was not true. The reason they are not coming out to question those numbers is that they know they are true. The narrative the Liberals are putting out there is a fallacy. The carbon tax is not revenue-neutral. In fact, I have the member for Winnipeg North saying that is not the case. I asked Finance Canada, as a matter of fact, how much, on average, a Canadian farmer gets back on the carbon tax. Its answer was $800 a year, when they are paying $45,000. Math is not my strong suit, but I am pretty sure that is a pretty wide gap, comparing what farmers are paying to what they are getting back in the carbon tax. Every single Canadian is paying for that in their grocery bills, and Canadian farmers are certainly bearing the brunt of that. In fact, there is a farmer from the Winnipeg area, the member may be interested to know, and his name was Jochum. He was at the agriculture committee, and he said that the carbon tax is currently costing him about $40,000 a year, and when the Liberal-NDP carbon tax coalition triples that carbon tax, he will be paying $136,000 a year. A recent report came out and said that after the carbon tax is tripled, an average 5,000-acre farm will be paying $150,000 a year in carbon taxes alone. Anybody in the House can come and tell me, especially if they have a rural riding, about any of their farmers who can absorb that kind of cost. There is not one. This is putting the economic sustainability of Canadian agriculture at risk and our food security at risk. Taxing farmers who are trying to produce food, when there is no other alternative to the fuels they use on-farm, is nonsensical. It makes no sense, especially when the Parliamentary Budget Officer has certified the numbers we are talking about here. It is by no means revenue-neutral, and our agriculture minister is complicit on this. She is saddling Canadian farmers with the crippling carbon tax. She voted against our bill, Bill C-206, which would have exempted the carbon tax from on-farm fuels, such as natural gas and propane. However, as Conservatives, we have not given up the fight. We have brought back a private member's bill, Bill C-234, which would again exempt the carbon tax from on-farm fuels, such as propane and natural gas. That would help farmers trying to heat and cool their barns and dry their grain. These are essential for Canadian farmers to remain competitive and viable. It is time to end the attacks on Canadian agriculture. It is time to stop the Liberals from looking at Canadian farmers as part of the problem, because indeed and in fact, Canadian farmers are part of the solution, and the carbon tax has got to go.

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